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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:32 am 
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Peter77 wrote:
The thread was about ferrari boss claiming that Vettel gets better parts than Webber. This is definately the case and I have cited many examples to prove this. People asked for proof to show 1 example how they are not treated equally and I have done that. I listed a few points which the fanboys ignore for some reason....


In 2010 RBR said they are developing the car around Seb. It would make sense that if they had just one part the design team and other engineering teams would want it bolted to the car of the driver they are developing around. Generally they have parts for both cars though. Their decision to do so has paid off.

Don't let Dom rile you up - he's still smarting from Flaggate. You can't win Monaco or Silverstone with subpar parts - you won't win anything at all. See Massa. And how exactly would Dom explain 2010 when Seb had crazy sparkplug, brake wheel, brake nut and antiroll bar failures? He can't - at least not with that theory. Perhaps he feels Mark was favored back then?

Mark had it rough in 2011 and part of 2012 also, but he had a stellar 2009 and 2010 in terms of reliability. Seb had a rough 2010 and part of 2012 (3 altenator failures, a gear box issue, a dragging floor and more.) But she'll be right for both drivers next season.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:32 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:

Additionally, IIRC Mark has never deliberately allowed Seb to overtake him on track - whereas Massa has gone out of his way to help Alonso at a few races this season.

Edit - Just remembered Mark being dragged in for a pit stop this season when he wouldn't let Seb pass. So make that 2 really bad episodes, one of which was this season.


Mark moved over and let Seb through early-on in Brazil...only to challenge him later, which didn't make much sense. We don't know if he was asked to move or did it on his own, only that Cairon thanked him for doing it.

We don't know if Mark would have let him pass during the second, previous incident you mention. He was not told to slow down and move over, but not to challenge if Seb got a run on him. Seb never did, nor was he close enough to be eased by, so we don't know if Mark would have done what he was asked or not. Before he had a need to make a decision, he was called in for the stop.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:32 am 
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ashley313, you constantly pump up Massa to try and diminish Alonso's great season and confidently assert that the only reason Massa didn't show that he was definitively better than Alonso was because Ferrari wouldn't let him; yet despite your playing with semantics, you aren't willing to accept that Red Bull could have given Vettel an advantage over Webber, via machinery or strategy. It only makes sense that the number one driver and title contender would get new parts sooner, and possibly have a better setup, than the number two, especially given how competitive a team Red Bull are. It's Team Red Bull, not Team Kool-Aid.

But seriously, other people in this thread, I'm embarrassed for you when I read posts like "ur just saying that cuz u have a crush on SV" and you would be too if you knew what cavepeople you sound like. You can be female and like racing for reasons other than the drivers. -_-


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:31 am 
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j man wrote:
If Webber was getting unequal treatment he would say so, he's not one to mince his words with the media. He also wouldn't have signed on with Red Bull for another year.


Its logical to give the cream of the crop to the #1.

Why did Webber re-sign to Red Bull??
1) It was #2 at either RB or Ferrari; he obviously thought Red Bull would have the better car.
2) He wants to have one more attempt at shoving it to the RB top brass by trying to best Vettel. #UnfinishedBuisness

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:53 am 
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sic98 wrote:
j man wrote:
If Webber was getting unequal treatment he would say so, he's not one to mince his words with the media. He also wouldn't have signed on with Red Bull for another year.


Its logical to give the cream of the crop to the #1.

Why did Webber re-sign to Red Bull??
1) It was #2 at either RB or Ferrari; he obviously thought Red Bull would have the better car.
2) He wants to have one more attempt at shoving it to the RB top brass by trying to best Vettel. #UnfinishedBuisness


He signed for another year because:

- You don't leave an Adrian Newey designed car, especially one that has won the last 3 WCC even if it doesn't suit your driving style
- He has no beef with Mateschitz himself who seems like the biggest supporter of Webber out of the top management
- Even if he is #2, he has a better chance of winning the WDC in RB than Ferrari
- If Webber was getting unequal treatment, and we've all heard that before, all he will be then labeled is a whinger which is what kinda happened in Brazil in 10'

Personally, I would have preferred if Webber went either to McLaren (I doubt it now with Perez signed) or Lotus to finish his career


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:16 pm 
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ferrar1sta wrote:
ashley313, you constantly pump up Massa to try and diminish Alonso's great season and confidently assert that the only reason Massa didn't show that he was definitively better than Alonso was because Ferrari wouldn't let him; yet despite your playing with semantics, you aren't willing to accept that Red Bull could have given Vettel an advantage over Webber, via machinery or strategy. It only makes sense that the number one driver and title contender would get new parts sooner, and possibly have a better setup, than the number two, especially given how competitive a team Red Bull are. It's Team Red Bull, not Team Kool-Aid.

But seriously, other people in this thread, I'm embarrassed for you when I read posts like "ur just saying that cuz u have a crush on SV" and you would be too if you knew what cavepeople you sound like. You can be female and like racing for reasons other than the drivers. -_-

I've never said anything about Massa being better than Alonso and not being able to show it. I said Massa drove circles around Alonso in the last couple of rounds of 2012, and he didn't need to finish ahead to show it.

Further, getting new parts and getting better parts are two different things. This thread is about a comment made by SD saying that he thinks Sebastian gets better parts, and says look at the failures on Mark's car as evidence. If something is failing, its because its a bad, poor quality, older, substandard, whatever. Not because it isn't the newest development part that goes faster. All I have said is that Mark's mechanical failures are not due to some disparity in the quality of components that go on his car and his teammate's, specifically his KERS and clutches.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
I thought the whole RBR being a small team was a myth and the actual figures showed they spent more than ferrari in 2011

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=48178

Not the link I was looking for but a recent one.


It's probably true, just the other day Michael Schumacher came out and said that Red Bull were spending a lot of money, probably more than the other teams.

It's kind of an open secret isn't it?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Peter77 wrote:
Oh my your still going lol

Every single person who looks at it logically knows Webber has the inferior KERS parts package than Vettels.
How else can you explain the 100s of problem he has at the most crucial times like qualifying when vettel has none.
The only problem Vettel might have is on a very hot day after 1.5 hours of pushing the car ot the limit and its hotter than the sun that a part like KERS fails. This is 100% normal due to overheating.
Parts failing when they are cold almost every race in qualifying is not normal
This is what Ferrari boss was talking about when he said Webber has inferior parts.
KERS failing in the garage when its cold time and time and time and time and time again . Even on day 1 in qualifying 2011 is more than a co incidence

The ferrari boss who knows 1000 times more than a Vettel loverboy about F1 knows something is up. He wasnt just talking hot air as he offered Webber a drive. Ferrari boss backed up what he is saying . He knows Webber has the inferior parts and he said it straight out and offered him the drive at the most prestigious time in F1. That alone says a million times more than any fanboy comments here who post comments all day long how Webber gets equal treatment and equal parts.

Yes, let's apply some logic to your "Red Bull are sabotaging Webber with inferior parts" theory.

Your theory requires the following:

Management at Red Bull sat down and decided they were going to sabotage Webber and brainstormed ideas on how to do it. After settling on an option or options they went to various people in the design and manufacturing areas of their own and supplier companies and explained to them or asked them what had to be done to the parts to achieve this. They also went to people in logistics to ensure the execution of their plan. They have managed to do this, engaging a proportion of the operation without one person objecting or without anyone else knowing; either that or the entire Red Bull team are in on the conspiracy.

They think that the resources spent on executing this sabotage is money better spent than on achieving results. They'd also prefer to 'get Webber' rather than achieve results.

I haven't yet worked out the motivation for this. Sadists? Pathological hatred of Webber? Boredom? Regardless though, it's no wonder they are spending so much money and there are indications they're breaching the spirit of the RRA.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:46 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I've never said anything about Massa being better than Alonso and not being able to show it. I said Massa drove circles around Alonso in the last couple of rounds of 2012, and he didn't need to finish ahead to show it.


But did you also say that Webber drove circles around Vettel at Monaco 2012 and some other early season races? I'm sure you'd agree that he clearly did. I'm guessing that this lack of objectiveness is what some here might be referring to (granted, in a childish manner). Us males are a rather logical bunch :)

For what it's worth, I can hardly wait to see Ricciardo in a Red Bull. He will pull Seb's pants right down ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:57 pm 
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purchville wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I've never said anything about Massa being better than Alonso and not being able to show it. I said Massa drove circles around Alonso in the last couple of rounds of 2012, and he didn't need to finish ahead to show it.


But did you also say that Webber drove circles around Vettel at Monaco 2012 and some other early season races? I'm sure you'd agree that he clearly did. I'm guessing that this lack of objectiveness is what some here might be referring to (granted, in a childish manner). Us males are a rather logical bunch :)

For what it's worth, I can hardly wait to see Ricciardo in a Red Bull. He will pull Seb's pants right down ;)


Did he really?

Webber drove a fantastic race in Monaco, no doubt about that. But don't get all wet about it. Vettel didn't go out to set a time in quali in order to save tyres. He started 9th and ended up 4th, 1.3 sec behind the winner Webber. Webber was better in this race, but would you say that he drove around Vettel in circles? Really?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:06 pm 
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purchville wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I've never said anything about Massa being better than Alonso and not being able to show it. I said Massa drove circles around Alonso in the last couple of rounds of 2012, and he didn't need to finish ahead to show it.


But did you also say that Webber drove circles around Vettel at Monaco 2012 and some other early season races? I'm sure you'd agree that he clearly did. I'm guessing that this lack of objectiveness is what some here might be referring to (granted, in a childish manner). Us males are a rather logical bunch :)

For what it's worth, I can hardly wait to see Ricciardo in a Red Bull. He will pull Seb's pants right down ;)

First of all, I don't know why you brought up the Ferrari drivers in the first place because they have nothing to do with this thread, and second, when I said Massa drove better than Alonso in the last few races it had nothing to do with Red Bull drivers, so why would I have talked about their performances in Monaco? I think in your quest to paint me as anti Webber you might have missed the tens of posts in which I praise his abilities on the days he shows up, and value his contribution to the team as greater than the headaches he causes them. Give it up.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:53 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
purchville wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I've never said anything about Massa being better than Alonso and not being able to show it. I said Massa drove circles around Alonso in the last couple of rounds of 2012, and he didn't need to finish ahead to show it.


But did you also say that Webber drove circles around Vettel at Monaco 2012 and some other early season races? I'm sure you'd agree that he clearly did. I'm guessing that this lack of objectiveness is what some here might be referring to (granted, in a childish manner). Us males are a rather logical bunch :)

For what it's worth, I can hardly wait to see Ricciardo in a Red Bull. He will pull Seb's pants right down ;)

First of all, I don't know why you brought up the Ferrari drivers in the first place because they have nothing to do with this thread, and second, when I said Massa drove better than Alonso in the last few races it had nothing to do with Red Bull drivers, so why would I have talked about their performances in Monaco? I think in your quest to paint me as anti Webber you might have missed the tens of posts in which I praise his abilities on the days he shows up, and value his contribution to the team as greater than the headaches he causes them. Give it up.


I think you are either decidedly mistaken or are taking mind-altering substances ashley. My post that you quoted never mentioned Ferrari drivers. Please read my post again. An apology would be good...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:38 pm 
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You're right, the person I was replying to in the post you quoted to did. I assumed you were one and the same, because you're both wrong about the same issue ;)

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