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 Post subject: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:04 pm 
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I do not understand. Half way through the season Alonso was getting so much praise it was unbelievable but even on the forum his health did not go unnoticed. I cannot believe that people are saying that while Massa got better through the season Alonso got worse. Alonso drove the same way from beginning to end. If you ask me should Alonso have won 2012 we would not hear a whisper of that. Furthermore I think that some of Alonso's poorer performances were due to his body being unhealthy. It did not go unseen that he had trouble getting out of the car some races and that he rushed to get water. If you ask me Alonso overworked himself and that caused some of his performances.
Not to take any credit from Massa I could not be happier to see him regain his form.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:31 pm 
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Interesting theory, but as a professional sportsman in his prime should he not be at the peak of physical conditioning and be able to cope with the rigours of a formula 1 season? I don't know if he was suffering in any way i just think Massa upped his game and got the best out of the car as it developed and while Alonso by no means drove poorly, i think he just couldn't extract those extra couple of tenths needed in the final qualifiers that Massa managed. Why? Who knows could have been the pressure of losing another championship at the end of the season. Whatever reason though he still drove exemplary all season.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Truth is eventough Massa found his form and managed to beat Alonso in couple of Q3s and outperformed him in couple of races he was still nowhere near the RBRs and McLarens. That really does show how good Nando's performances were throughtout the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:40 pm 
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This ought to turn out well.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:07 am 
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I don't think his poorer performances were due to him being unhealthy at all. He looks perhaps the most tired in the pre podium room, and that's probably because he's had to drive to his absolute physical limit to get there. Heck, I don't think he performed poorly at all. It just shows how much he has completely annihilated Massa that any turn in the trend creates this type of shock. I mean, Massa is very good F1 driver, and we're surprised that he's challenging his teammate for once? Isn't that something we should expect?

I think Massa just upped his game significantly rather than Alonso dropping off. He's 31 years of age, he still has a good few years in him. We've seen Schumi and Rubens stick around until much older. So I doubt physical conditioning is a factor.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:10 am 
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Its wrong to say Massa was annihilated by Alonso and therefore Alonso is 3x the driver Massa is and therefore by extension 2x better than any other driver.
Massa didnt get trounced just by Alonso, he was so off form that he got beat by the Toro Rosso's in some races and qualifying sessions. I know the Ferrari was difficult to drive and some might say that Massa's pace was Ferrari's actual pace and that Alonso got much more than the car was capable of.

In Barcelona for example, Massa was outqualified by the Toro Rosso's and finished only ahead of the Caterhams while his teammate almost won the GP and eventually finished 2nd.

Now, you might say thats just Alonso performing exceptionally. But, I would argue that Massa was awful in the 1st half of the season and most other drivers would have done better than he did.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:19 am 
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Interesting theory on the injury/fitness, perhaps Spa 2012 had a bigger effect than we expected?

Just to remind people he's human. He is not a robot capable of achieving 100% effort every race. I think you would also be tired, knowing you've been driving perhaps the best in your career for your team to never have the fastest car at any point... i know i would :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:30 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:07 am 
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just lol

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:15 am 
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So it seems Alonso's tricks fooled at least one person; the OP :P

Alonso is just as fit as the rest of them and he put physically just as much into each race as the rest of them. The water bottle incidents etc. were just for the show IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:10 am 
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Covalent wrote:
The water bottle incidents etc. were just for the show IMO.


Or maybe he was thirsty and tired?, but hey it's Alonso, people need to find something hidden in everything he does.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:51 pm 
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He performed so well in the first half and massa so poorly that he's being held to an impossible standard.
Massa on form is a very fast driver, there's no shame in being slightly slower in 2 or 3 races, I mean seriously.
Also Massa had nothing to lose and Alonso everything, Vettel also wasn't as fast at the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Some in here will go very far to try and diminish Alonso's performances in 2012. Some say he choked the WDC... some could only find a waterbottle to critizise.... 2 out 20 races suddenly means Massa outperformed him...
It's much easier to just lean back, make some popcorn and watch people make a fool of themselves... there's certainly no point in trying to convince them otherwise


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Robot wrote:
Covalent wrote:
The water bottle incidents etc. were just for the show IMO.


Or maybe he was thirsty and tired?, but hey it's Alonso, people need to find something hidden in everything he does.

Possible, didn't say it was a fact.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:47 pm 
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All of this is true I was just curious even though the drivers are in great shape I cant imagine that they are able to maintain it throughout a season where every other weekend it seems to me they lose pounds of just sweat

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:12 pm 
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emb1496 wrote:
All of this is true I was just curious even though the drivers are in great shape I cant imagine that they are able to maintain it throughout a season where every other weekend it seems to me they lose pounds of just sweat

Well when my boss was talking to CH towards the end of the season he was saying how its been such a long season were all shattered and I guess that must include the drivers too. And a mate knows someone at Mercedes who it based at factory around the same time said exactly the same thing !


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:42 pm 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.


So is most of the other F1 drivers. I take it you support Vettel and he's certainly no saint in that respect. There's a fair share of episodes to support that.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:40 pm 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.

If this is the argument that people are doing in the off season, :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:02 pm 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.


No F1 driver is a good loser. They are all hell bent on winning.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:12 pm 
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emb1496 wrote:
I do not understand. Half way through the season Alonso was getting so much praise it was unbelievable but even on the forum his health did not go unnoticed. I cannot believe that people are saying that while Massa got better through the season Alonso got worse. Alonso drove the same way from beginning to end. If you ask me should Alonso have won 2012 we would not hear a whisper of that. Furthermore I think that some of Alonso's poorer performances were due to his body being unhealthy. It did not go unseen that he had trouble getting out of the car some races and that he rushed to get water. If you ask me Alonso overworked himself and that caused some of his performances.
Not to take any credit from Massa I could not be happier to see him regain his form.

Its interesting you noticing something like that but rather than being just fatigue maybe the pressure started to get to him?

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:16 pm 
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VDV23 wrote:
Truth is eventough Massa found his form and managed to beat Alonso in couple of Q3s and outperformed him in couple of races he was still nowhere near the RBRs and McLarens. That really does show how good Nando's performances were throughtout the year.

He wasn't allowed to get near those teams because he was playing rear gunner for Alonso, one race he held station behind him despite having the speed to run at the same pace as the leaders, he even took a grid penalty for him

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:26 pm 
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There were a few races this year where I think Felipe could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:38 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
There were a few races this year where I think Felipe could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate.

Its hard to know if he could have won given the performance of the McLaren and Red Bull but he was never given the chance

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Truth is eventough Massa found his form and managed to beat Alonso in couple of Q3s and outperformed him in couple of races he was still nowhere near the RBRs and McLarens. That really does show how good Nando's performances were throughtout the year.

He wasn't allowed to get near those teams because he was playing rear gunner for Alonso, one race he held station behind him despite having the speed to run at the same pace as the leaders, he even took a grid penalty for him


Oh yeah? He was catching Webber and Vettel in Korea? Yeah, right.

Massa outqualified Alonso three times (in Monza Alonso had a car failure), Brazil and USA. He didn't outqualify a single McLaren or RBR in those races.

PS: He actually outqualified Button in USA but that's not really an accomplishment.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:04 pm 
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VDV23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Truth is eventough Massa found his form and managed to beat Alonso in couple of Q3s and outperformed him in couple of races he was still nowhere near the RBRs and McLarens. That really does show how good Nando's performances were throughtout the year.

He wasn't allowed to get near those teams because he was playing rear gunner for Alonso, one race he held station behind him despite having the speed to run at the same pace as the leaders, he even took a grid penalty for him


Oh yeah? He was catching Webber and Vettel in Korea? Yeah, right.

Massa outqualified Alonso three times (in Monza Alonso had a car failure), Brazil and USA. He didn't outqualify a single McLaren or RBR in those races.

PS: He actually outqualified Button in USA but that's not really an accomplishment.

He had excellent pace in some of those races though, if qualifying was the only parameter Alonso would not have won a race

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:42 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
There were a few races this year where I think Felipe could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate.


And I suppose one could say that there were some races that Webber could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate. That is a flimsy attack that can be aimed at any primary driver on any top team... and usually is.

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Blake wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
There were a few races this year where I think Felipe could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate.


And I suppose one could say that there were some races that Webber could have won if his strategies were aimed primarily at helping him and not his teammate. That is a flimsy attack that can be aimed at any primary driver on any top team... and usually is.

My post was a response to whoever said that even in his good races toward the end of the year, Felipe was no where near competing with Red Bull and McLaren like Fernando did. Except that he was, and did. He probably could have won in Brazil if his strategies were aimed at winning. How is that an attack, and what does it have to do with anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:04 pm 
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I don't think there is anything wrong with him, but he was a drama queen in Abu Dhabi.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:43 am 
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Alonso 2012 is the best season I have seen anyone have in an F1 car. Massa, (thats the wdc contender Massa managed to get on his level) managed to get on his level by the end of the year, so what? The Ferrari 2012 had about the same level of pace relative to its competitors as the 2006 Mclaren and how well did there drivers do?


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:02 am 
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RunningMan wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.


No F1 driver is a good loser. They are all hell bent on winning.


Yup, I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Alonso 2012
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:14 am 
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bourbon19 wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Alonso drove well in 2012 - very consistent overall. But he is a sore loser and it is the sour grapes that I tend to recall from near the end of 2006, 2007, 2010 and now 2012.


No F1 driver is a good loser. They are all hell bent on winning.


Yup, I agree.

Massa almost won the WDC. Why couldn't he beat anybody?


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