planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:31 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:49 pm
Posts: 116
They say that in F1 the first person you have to beat is your teammate. I'd like to hear your thoughts on who won their respective teammate battles this year and by how much,using the following example as a guide:

Team XYZ:
Driver A vs. Driver B.
Winner: Driver A,+1/ +2 / +3. Here's what those numbers mean.
+1: Driver A just edged out Driver B, but there was little to chose, and neither really dominated the other.
+2: Driver A was definitely superior to Driver B. He didn't destroy his teammate, but has left no doubt who the main man at the team is.
+3: Driver A totally destroyed Driver B and left him standing still.

Motivations are welcome :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 2355
Ferrari:
Alonso +2 (Thought about a +3 but, given Massa's performances in the later races, it just got bumped down to a +2)

Mclaren:
Hamilton +2 (The points gap didn't do this justice due to the horrific luck Hamilton had (no crap about "making your own luck" either, it's a fallacy), it wasn't the same sort of beating Alonso put on Massa though so if that was a +2.9, Mclaren is a +2.2)

RBR:
Seb +2 (Yes he got better support and all the updates first but 5 wins to 2 and 281 to 179 points does say a lot)

Lotus:
Kimi +2 (This is a +2 due to the fact that I think the main reason there was such a gap between them in the points was because RoGro kept throwing it off the track, otherwise it would be a +3)

Mercedes:
Rosberg +1 (Yes he got the team's only win but Schumi suffered some horrible luck and probably deserved a fair few more points)

Sauber:
Perez +1

Force India:
Hulkenberg +1

Williams:
Maldonado +1.5

STR:
Ricciardo/Vergne 0 (thought they were quite balanced, Ricciardo maybe has the quali edge with Vergne having the race one)

Caterham:
Kovalainen +2

Marussia:
Glock +2

HRT:
de la Rosa +3 (just look at the results, Super Pedro hammered Karthtikeyan)

_________________
"This kid is a gamer, he's a baller, he's a playmaker and a shot-caller"

"Don't worry, I'm pushing like a hell!"

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:31 am
Posts: 902
Ferrari:
Alonso +1 (If you didn't have the 'no pass on Alonso', 'break the gearbox seal' 'let Alonso thru' from too early in the year, then it might be +2)

Mclaren:
Hamilton +2 (DNFs not Lewis' fault)

RBR:
Seb +2 (Webber was competitive for some parts of the season, so not a 'destroyed' situation)

Lotus:
Kimi +3 (No excuses allowed when it is the driver completely destroying his own chances)

Mercedes:
Rosberg +1 (pretty close)

Sauber:
Perez +2 (Here again, issues not of his making)

Force India: 0

Williams:

Maldonado +1

STR: 0

Caterham:
Kovalainen +2

Marussia:
Glock +1 (Pic was excellent)

HRT:
de la Rosa +3


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4832
Red Bull
Winner: Vettel +2 In the second half of the season when the car came on strong so did Vettel leaving Webber trailing in his wake

Ferrari
Winner: Alonso +2 This would have been a 3 if not for Massa's late season resurgance

McLaren
Winner: Hamilton +2 But for a few races was dominant over Button

Lotus
Winner: Raikkonen +2 This was close for awhile but then Grosjean totally lost the plot

Mercedes
Winner: Rosberg +1 This was very close, but Rosberg just edged it with a win, in qualifying and on points, admittedly Schumacher had some bad luck early in the season

Sauber
Winner: Perez +1 Just edged it with podiums, in qualifying and points

Williams
Winner: Maldonado +2 I felt at times he left Senna somewhat floundering

Force India
Winner: Hulkenburg +1 Finished the season much stronger than Di Resta, Di Resta did have the edge earlier in the season though

Torro Rosso
Winner: Ricciardo +1 I just felt his much stronger qualifying performances gives him the edge over Vergne

Caterham
Winner: Kovalainen +1 Same again much stronger qualifying performances give him the edge

Marussia
Winner: Glock +2 Just got the impression that by and large Glock was the quicker driver

HRT
Winner: de la Rosa +3 Just about totally dominant over Karthikeyan

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 2nd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:25 pm
Posts: 294
RBR
+2 VET: That said, WEB 'probably' delivered exactly what RBR wanted.
RBR paid WEB $8 mill for 2012. I'd argue its a pretty safe bet RBR wouldn't of resigned him for 2013 if they were disappointed in his 2012 performance.

MCL
+3 HAM: HAM deserves +3 for publicly taking MCL's remarkable ability to destroy sure wins with such grace.
BUT races seemed typically inconsequential in comparison with HAM.

FER
+3 ALO: 2nd in the WDC, wouldn't of picked that in Melbourne.
MAS was destroyed, even by number 2 driver standards. It was like he was in another team.

LOT
+2 RAI: Consistent all year, unlike his teammate.
This would be much tighter if only GRO could consistently complete the first lap without causing collisions.

MER
+1 ROS: Tightest season of 3 between the MER pair, sadly the last for MSC.
I'd favour ROS though, the China win coupled with MSC collisions with SEN and VER push it in his favour.
ROS will have an interesting 2013 with HAM.

SAU
+2 PER: Results (and money) talk, bullshit walks.
PER enjoyed a lot of 2012 success, arguably obeyed inter-team orders to not overtake ALO for the MAL race win.
KOB did well, was great watching him on the podium in JAP, but he was outclassed and failed to make himself irreplaceable to SAU.

WIL
+1 MAL: Amazing in qualifying. Great race win in ESP, followed by a lot of nothing results.
SEN offered reliable race results, one wonders what he could've done with the extra practice session each weekend.

FOI
+2 HUL: Seemed deceptively comparable with DIR for the first half of the season, by achieving similar results.
Second half of the season this performance gap was easier to recognise as it caused a greater variance on driver results.

TOR
+2 RIC: VER seems generally recognised as the better 'racer' in 2012, whilst RIC seems generally considered the better qualifier.
I strongly disagree that VER was the stronger racer. Much of this is based upon on the greater points tally.
Strongest TOR race was RIC's EUR GP. Unfortunately VER's failure, and subsequent return to the pit resulted in the pace car causing RIC to lose,
(1) solid track position - memory it was 6th-8th
(2) time over trailing competitors
(3) tyre advantage (from memory he was in a strong tyre position)
(4) inability to pit as VER compromised the TOR pitbox, causing RIC to remain on track behind the Pace Car.
(5) eventual loss of what might've been a defining race win.
That all said, VER +2 on race starts. RIC truly inherited WEB's ability to start GP's.

CAT
+1 KOV: Sadly the CAT drivers went unnoticed during the television broadcasts due to the heightened track action 2012 brought.
KOV seemed more often to push CAT into session 2, usually at the misfortune of VER.

MAR
GLO and PIC: Not enough information to really make any insight or make any judgement.

HRT
+3 DLR: Simply for being the less noticed driver of the pair.
DLR seemed to have KAR's measure in qualifying by some .5 to 1sec each race. Might seem large by it merely resulted in an extra car to lap per race for leaders.
HRT will not be missed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:53 am
Posts: 515
Location: York, United Kingdom.
Red Bull: Vettel+2 A more consistent season, making less mistakes and maximising his qualifying performances through his starts. Webber had some good drives and has bad luck but didnt to me look like a serious challenge to Seb.
Ferrari: Alonso+2 Basing my rating on midseason when Massa looked average and Alonso lookd to be getting the maximum out of his car. Later on Massa was much closer and more agressive.
Mclaren: Hamilton +2 Button had a bad season no questions and given better luck Lewis would have been a championship contender.
Lotus: Raikkonen +2 Kimi really impressed me with his consistency wheras Grosjean despite showing speed early on became slow and mad after Hungary.
Mercedes: Schumi +1 A close one but he was right behind Rosberg in China before the whee fell off and was top four in Australia. Thn there was that superb Monaco lap. Admitedly he made mistakes but seemed to be pushing the car to its limits more than his teammate who was annonymous mostly.
Sauber: Perez +1 Better drivers, preserving the tyres an closing on faster cars/drivers. But Kamui was a better qualifier, more consistent and unlucky. Closest pair for me.
Force India: Hulkenberg +1 Always midfield after he got going, not spectacular drives and made a mess of his one big chance but that is preferable to Di Resta who wasnt competing for points as he should have been.
Williams: Maldonado +2 Some stunning drives when he wasnt crashing, showed great speed and the ability to compete. Senna's qualifying was embarrassing.
Toro Rosso: Vergne +1 Better race drives which make up for poor qualfying. Malaysia showed great skill and could have had points in Monaco.
Caterham: Petrov +1 If Heikki was superior it would have been him who got Caterham 10th place.
Marussia: Pic +1 Performances were simmilar but Pic edges it because he is a rookie.
HRT: De la Rosa +3 Got the most out of that car especially on Saturday and Karthikeyan didnt have a bad season but wasnt comparable to Pedro.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3074
Vettel +2
Alonso +3 (although last 1/4 of the season was +2)
Raikkonen +2 (Qualifying keeps it from a +3)
Hamilton +2
Schumacher 0
Perez +1
Hulkenberg +1.5
Maldanado +1.5

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:26 pm
Posts: 78
Alonso +3
Hamilton +1
Vettel +2
Raikkonen +3
Rosberg +2
Perez +1
Hulkenberg +1
Maldonado +3
Vergne +1
Kovalainen +1
Glock +3
de la Rosa +3


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 584
Vettel 1 -Very close till mid season before the newey-vettel combo got their act together.
Alonso 2 would have been 3 if not for massa's return to form
Raikkonen 2 -Kimi taking a bit of time to adjust to the pirelli's keeps it from a 3
Hamilton 2 Better than button in 16 of 20 races
Schumacher 1 Much better than rosberg in terms of pace
Perez 2
Hulkenberg 2
Maldanado 2
Ricciardo 1
Petrov 1
Pic 1
De la rosa 1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1907
Location: Perth, Australia
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Toro Rosso: Vergne +1 Better race drives which make up for poor qualfying. Malaysia showed great skill and could have had points in Monaco.


Unlikely. He needed to make the pit stop anyway, it was just unfortunate that STR went for intermediates on a bone-dry track. The pit stop wasn't optional - he needed new tyres. Came out of the pits in 11th and fell to twelfth.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:53 am
Posts: 515
Location: York, United Kingdom.
Toby. wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Toro Rosso: Vergne +1 Better race drives which make up for poor qualfying. Malaysia showed great skill and could have had points in Monaco.


Unlikely. He needed to make the pit stop anyway, it was just unfortunate that STR went for intermediates on a bone-dry track. The pit stop wasn't optional - he needed new tyres. Came out of the pits in 11th and fell to twelfth.


I thought he had stopped before hand. Even Toro Rosso wouldn't leave it that late surely? I always asumed they just went for a gamble on inter because they thought they could do a Winkelhock which in the end didnt work out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:56 am
Posts: 1136
RBR
+2 VET... he destroyed an aging Webber.

MCL
+1.5 HAM, hamilton was the best of the two, but Button usually wasn't so far off as people want to believe.

FER
+2 for ALO, but on the other hand Massa was faster on the last two races (!!)

LOT
+1 to RAI only because Grosjean got involved in many incidents

MER
+1 to ROS; maybe MSC should have been retained

SAU
+2 to PER: Kamui showed he is a solid driver that definitively belongs to any F1 team. But Perez showed he is WDC material IMO.

WIL
EQUAL. MAL looks better because of the win, but SENNA was actually more consistent and beat his teammate often when both finished.

FOI
+2 to HUL who destroyed the DiResta myth.

TOR
CAT
MAR
Can't decide

HRT
+3 to PDLR who was consistently faster than Karthikeyan, sometimes embarrasingly faster than him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1907
Location: Perth, Australia
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Toby. wrote:
TakumaSatoforthewin wrote:
Toro Rosso: Vergne +1 Better race drives which make up for poor qualfying. Malaysia showed great skill and could have had points in Monaco.


Unlikely. He needed to make the pit stop anyway, it was just unfortunate that STR went for intermediates on a bone-dry track. The pit stop wasn't optional - he needed new tyres. Came out of the pits in 11th and fell to twelfth.


I thought he had stopped before hand. Even Toro Rosso wouldn't leave it that late surely? I always asumed they just went for a gamble on inter because they thought they could do a Winkelhock which in the end didnt work out.


Feel free to show me I'm wrong, but I thought the later stop was necessary because he had to pit early in the race. In the days following the race, I remember saying I was impressed with his performance to a friend who duly reminded me of his tyre situation. I've since thought that he needed to pit late in the race and STR thought they may as well go for the inters and risk it making them look like fools. Unfortunately for them, it did.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bbobeckyj, Laura23, mikeyg123, PiMuRho, POBRatings, Prema, purchville, scram and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.127s | 14 Queries | GZIP : Off ]