planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:59 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: bruno senna's qualifying
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:46 pm
Posts: 26
after watching some of bruno's q2 qualifying laps I notticed that he was just too smooth, leaving a lot time on the table, especially after watching the onboard in the last sector in abu dhabi, he was just not carrying enough speed, and not attacking the curbs as hard as he should, the car looked very well balanced, I dont know if it was just a lack of confidence or what, he was always qualifying around 14th, I dont know what he would have lost if he just tried to be more agressive in attacking the curbs. what do you guys think?, I really think he is a lot better than the performance he showed, shame he didnt get the brawn drive in 2009, as I think he would have given button a run for his money because the tyres were easier to warm up as that has been his problem with the williams car.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfWRW1MJhQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 734
Location: Derby
His driving styles just didn't suit the pirrellis so he needed set up spot on to compensate and if you are having 1.5hrs less than most others on track you will suffer simple. He proved in lower formula and Renault he can be fast in quali.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 2398
Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert
Completely agree with both of you.

Maybe he's nothing special, but I don't feel like we've seen his best. I can't think of anyone who was so good in the wet at GP2 level without turning into something worthwhile at F1 level. He had a very compromised path to F1 that left him behind his contempories on the learning curve. I think there's an argument to be made for him possibly having more untapped potential than others of his generation because of that.

_________________
I went skating on your name,
And by tracing it twice,
I fell through the ice,
of Alice


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:04 am
Posts: 582
Totally agree. Most people who seem to slate Bruno unnecessarily just seem to mention Ayrton, say something generic about "ruining the family name" and don't say much more.

I'd like him to take the second seat at Caterham and push the team forward, Heikki style.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:56 am
Posts: 1132
... and don't forget that he usually beat Maldonado when both finished the race.

Is there any news regarding Senna's presence in F1 for this year?

_________________
"Where the hell's Alain?" He'd qualify fourth, make a slow start, and you'd think, "Great, he's ninth or whatever(...)" Then you'd see that he was sixth, fifth, fourth, third, and you'd think, "Oooh, shit!" -- Patrick Head


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5863
Location: London
He needs to be a lot more aggressive over one lap. If he could heat the tyres up properly on his out lap he'd probably have found himself much higher up the grid.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 734
Location: Derby
flavio81 wrote:
... and don't forget that he usually beat Maldonado when both finished the race.

Is there any news regarding Senna's presence in F1 for this year?

in the force India seat thread, just that he hsnt been ruled out yet and he still wants a competitive seat as possible, have to wait and see i guess


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1889
Location: Perth, Australia
His qualifying was downright embarrassing at some points in the season. This was especially so at Barcelona when Maldonado secured a front-row place and Bruno spun off clumsily into the gravel. There were a number of qualifying sessions wherein Maldonado showed his superiority:

Abu Dhabi: Maldonado 4th, Senna 15th
Brazil: Maldonado 6th, Senna 12th
Belgium: Maldonado 3rd, Senna 17th
Britain: Maldonado 7th, Senna 15th
Valencia: Maldonado 3rd, Senna 14th

The argument that Senna's end results were on-par with Maldonado's is valid, but is perhaps only used to hold on to the hope that Bruno could remain in the sport. Williams needs star drivers at the moment and Senna hasn't shown himself to be one. Valtteri Bottas may prove himself to be unimpressive in the months to come and that may open the door for a Senna return, though the Brazilian isn't a youngster anymore and a return to the sport at 30 years old won't be easy for him, nor will it be an attractive prospect for a Formula One team.

Button has shown himself to be a match for Hamilton and I can't see a first-year Senna having been able to challenge Jenson for the title. Honda offered Alonso a drive in 2008, though. Now that would've been fun to see.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Imola
Bruno was only 2 tenth slower than Button in the 2009 Brawn test, but Brawn decided to choose Barrichello for his immense experience.
His smooth style doesn't fit very well with Pirelli tyres in the single lap, but it works well in race conditions (where he outpaced Maldonado many times despite losing FP1).

Look at him in China (finished 7th), so smooth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXBdvN1DMnw

Next year's tyres will be easier to put in the right temperature window, so i see a faster Senna in qualify too.
Only hope that someone will give him another opportunity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1889
Location: Perth, Australia
shift wrote:
Bruno was only 2 tenth slower than Button in the 2009 Brawn test, but Brawn decided to choose Barrichello for his immense experience.


But since when has testing been a test of out-and-out driver ability? If Brawn (Though was it not a test carried out when the team was still Honda?) had thought that Bruno was the next big thing, you'd have thought they would have signed him. After all, the team didn't know if they were going to survive into 2010 - what good was an experienced driver over one that might blitz the field in '09?

shift wrote:
His smooth style doesn't fit very well with Pirelli tyres in the single lap, but it works well in race conditions (where he outpaced Maldonado many times despite losing FP1).


That's an excuse, but it doesn't completely defend Bruno. If he was a top driver, you'd have expected him to have worked around that before the end of a 20-race season. It's not as if it was a problem that was inherent within the FW34 as his team-mate had no such issues.

shift wrote:
Look at him in China, so smooth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXBdvN1DMnw


Unfortunately for Bruno, being smooth with the wheel doesn't necessarily result in a fast lap time. It may have helped his tyre conservation, and perhaps that is why his race results were closer to Maldonado's, but Button - widely regarded as the 'smoothest' driver in recent years - didn't suffer like Bruno in qualifying.

shift wrote:
Next years tyres will be easier to put in the right temperature window, so i see a faster Senna in qualify too.
Only hope that someone will give him another opportunity.


Unfortunately it looks as if we may never know.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:46 pm
Posts: 26
the quali gap between JEV and RIC is very similar to the gap between senna and maldonado, the difference is that vergne starts very near his team mate even if he was way slower, whereas senna starts 15th and maldonado makes it to q3.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrfWRW1MJhQ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:06 pm
Posts: 547
He also took so strange lines when ever I saw him onboard.

He also simply cracked under the pressure, even his best Q was some 4 tenths off Maldo.

He's had 46 Grands Prix and hasn't really put in an impressive drive.

_________________
Jenson Button & Williams F1 Team supporter!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:56 pm
Posts: 379
kingjamie wrote:
He also took so strange lines when ever I saw him onboard.

He also simply cracked under the pressure, even his best Q was some 4 tenths off Maldo.

He's had 46 Grands Prix and hasn't really put in an impressive drive.


In 2012 Malaysia? China? Hungary? Abu dhabi?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Imola
Toby. wrote:
Unfortunately for Bruno, being smooth with the wheel doesn't necessarily result in a fast lap time. It may have helped his tyre conservation, and perhaps that is why his race results were closer to Maldonado's, but Button - widely regarded as the 'smoothest' driver in recent years - didn't suffer like Bruno in qualifying.



Button suffered a lot with tyre temperature this year in qualify, and he is far more experienced than Bruno:

some examples:

Barcellona: Ham 2nd, But 11 th
Monaco: Ham 4th, But 13th
Canada: Ham 2nd, But 10 th
Valencia: Ham 2nd, But 9th
Silverstone: Ham 8th, But 18th
Korea: Ham 3th, But 11th
USA: Ham 2th, But 12 th

Like Maldonado, Hamilton is very aggressive and can get most of the tyres on the flying lap.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 734
Location: Derby
Toby. wrote:
shift wrote:
Bruno was only 2 tenth slower than Button in the 2009 Brawn test, but Brawn decided to choose Barrichello for his immense experience.


But since when has testing been a test of out-and-out driver ability? If Brawn (Though was it not a test carried out when the team was still Honda?) had thought that Bruno was the next big thing, you'd have thought they would have signed him. After all, the team didn't know if they were going to survive into 2010 - what good was an experienced driver over one that might blitz the field in '09?

shift wrote:
His smooth style doesn't fit very well with Pirelli tyres in the single lap, but it works well in race conditions (where he outpaced Maldonado many times despite losing FP1).


That's an excuse, but it doesn't completely defend Bruno. If he was a top driver, you'd have expected him to have worked around that before the end of a 20-race season. It's not as if it was a problem that was inherent within the FW34 as his team-mate had no such issues.

shift wrote:
Look at him in China, so smooth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXBdvN1DMnw


Unfortunately for Bruno, being smooth with the wheel doesn't necessarily result in a fast lap time. It may have helped his tyre conservation, and perhaps that is why his race results were closer to Maldonado's, but Button - widely regarded as the 'smoothest' driver in recent years - didn't suffer like Bruno in qualifying.

shift wrote:
Next years tyres will be easier to put in the right temperature window, so i see a faster Senna in qualify too.
Only hope that someone will give him another opportunity.


Unfortunately it looks as if we may never know.

people have used testing as a yard stick for bottas


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 734
Location: Derby
shift wrote:
Toby. wrote:
Unfortunately for Bruno, being smooth with the wheel doesn't necessarily result in a fast lap time. It may have helped his tyre conservation, and perhaps that is why his race results were closer to Maldonado's, but Button - widely regarded as the 'smoothest' driver in recent years - didn't suffer like Bruno in qualifying.



Button suffered a lot with tyre temperature this year in qualify, and he is far more experienced than Bruno:

some examples:

Barcellona: Ham 2nd, But 11 th
Monaco: Ham 4th, But 13th
Canada: Ham 2nd, But 10 th
Valencia: Ham 2nd, But 9th
Silverstone: Ham 8th, But 18th
Korea: Ham 3th, But 11th
USA: Ham 2th, But 12 th

Like Maldonado, Hamilton is very aggressive and can get most of the tyres on the flying lap.

:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:21 am
Posts: 362
potter84 wrote:
people have used testing as a yard stick for bottas


People from Williams that is, not some fans.

And these people from Williams said Bottas is fundamentally the quickest of Maldonado, Senna, Bottas trio, which tells awful lot about how horrible Senna was this year and how badly Williams drivers underperformed due to their driving, be it being slow or crashing or getting penalty every weekend.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4690
Armchair Expert wrote:
potter84 wrote:
people have used testing as a yard stick for bottas


People from Williams that is, not some fans.

And these people from Williams said Bottas is fundamentally the quickest of Maldonado, Senna, Bottas trio, which tells awful lot about how horrible Senna was this year and how badly Williams drivers underperformed due to their driving, be it being slow or crashing or getting penalty every weekend.

Agreed the average fan wouldn't have a clue regarding testing times due to fuel loads etc, but certainly Williams have all the data they need to decide Bottas is the better bet

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: domokun, James14, purchville and 31 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.110s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]