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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:09 pm 
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http://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/news ... o-succeed/

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:14 pm 
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How dare he say that!!!

Haha on a serious note he's right. If he wanted to he could've said ok Lewis you can keep your trophies and have number one status but he didn't want to give him that

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:27 pm 
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"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team...”

I miss Uncy Ron.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Sour grapes, from a very proud man who hates to lose.
A bit late to come up with this as everyone seems to have moved on. Hamilton seemed more happy than at the last 2,5 years after he signed for Mercedes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:18 pm 
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MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

IMo it was for the better they seperated ways. They had the best car and the best driver this year, but failed miserably.
Would they have ever won the title together again?
Lewis already stayed too long, he needed something new. If he really wanted to stay he would not have looked for other options for quite some time. I remember Martin Whitmarsh made him a public offer to stay " forever" sometime early 2011. Hamilton gave no answer to it. This was the first sign their ways could end after 2012 together.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:35 pm 
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I see no sour grapes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:35 pm 
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Sour grapes, no doubt about it, only a blind man cannot see it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:44 pm 
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I actually thought that was the most boring bit of the interview.

He made some good points about things like writing off R&D machinery. Something I would have thought would probably be obsolete before the team can actually write them off their books.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:46 pm 
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Its only sour grapes if you think McLaren lost something.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:54 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
I see no sour grapes.

"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
He adds: “Life isn’t about one person deciding anything. It’s never that way. It’s about circumstances.


At the end of the day Lewis made he decission to leave the team. It was confirmed from Whitmarsh, Hamilton made the decission to leave them, as he called him after Singapore. MW also said the did anything possible to keep him, made him the highest offer etc. Hamilton had the last word there.

It sounds like sour grapes when Ron tries to make it look like it was not in Lewis hands, to decide if he stays or leaves.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I see no sour grapes.

"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
He adds: “Life isn’t about one person deciding anything. It’s never that way. It’s about circumstances.


At the end of the day Lewis made he decission to leave the team. It was confirmed from Whitmarsh, Hamilton made the decission to leave them, as he called him after Singapore. MW also said the did anything possible to keep him, made him the highest offer etc. Hamilton had the last word there.

It sounds like sour grapes when Ron tries to make it look like it was not in Lewis hands, to decide if he stays or leaves.



That ignores the next bit though

Quote:
Did we have the ability to create a situation where we could have stayed together? Categorically, yes.


So he's saying they could have sweetened the deal to get Lewis to stay. But they didn't want too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Ron seems to be making it pretty clear he didn't exactly want Hamilton to stay at McLaren. He basically says they could have offered him more if they wanted but didn't. That doesn't sound like a man, or team, who were desperate for Lewis to stick around. Kinda like the parents kicking their kid out because they are sick of their tantrums. It remains to be seen if child will thrive away from home and parents end up regretting it...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I see no sour grapes.

"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
He adds: “Life isn’t about one person deciding anything. It’s never that way. It’s about circumstances.


At the end of the day Lewis made he decission to leave the team. It was confirmed from Whitmarsh, Hamilton made the decission to leave them, as he called him after Singapore. MW also said the did anything possible to keep him, made him the highest offer etc. Hamilton had the last word there.

It sounds like sour grapes when Ron tries to make it look like it was not in Lewis hands, to decide if he stays or leaves.

At the end of the day, McLaren made the decision not to offer whatever Lewis wanted to stay. That doesn't mean just cash, or trophies, or status within the team.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:08 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I see no sour grapes.

"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
He adds: “Life isn’t about one person deciding anything. It’s never that way. It’s about circumstances.


At the end of the day Lewis made he decission to leave the team. It was confirmed from Whitmarsh, Hamilton made the decission to leave them, as he called him after Singapore. MW also said the did anything possible to keep him, made him the highest offer etc. Hamilton had the last word there.

It sounds like sour grapes when Ron tries to make it look like it was not in Lewis hands, to decide if he stays or leaves.



That ignores the next bit though

Quote:
Did we have the ability to create a situation where we could have stayed together? Categorically, yes.


So he's saying they could have sweetened the deal to get Lewis to stay. But they didn't want too.

Come one it sounds like a bitter old man, who's wive left for a younger guy.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:13 pm 
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Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Obviously some will simply not believe that whoever is no longer in partnership with Lewis could have brought about this situation by choice but rather it all be Lewis's choice

If Lewis never wanted to stay why was he making noises about wanting to keep trophies as part of a new deal? And the admission by Ron about the amount of money on offer is lower than Lewis expected due to the current economical climate?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:18 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
I see no sour grapes.

"I think it’s wrong to portray that Lewis left this team. At the end of the day, you end up with a situation where you’re going to separate if the circumstances aren’t right.”
He adds: “Life isn’t about one person deciding anything. It’s never that way. It’s about circumstances.


At the end of the day Lewis made he decission to leave the team. It was confirmed from Whitmarsh, Hamilton made the decission to leave them, as he called him after Singapore. MW also said the did anything possible to keep him, made him the highest offer etc. Hamilton had the last word there.

It sounds like sour grapes when Ron tries to make it look like it was not in Lewis hands, to decide if he stays or leaves.

At the end of the day, McLaren made the decision not to offer whatever Lewis wanted to stay. That doesn't mean just cash, or trophies, or status within the team.

It was Lewis who made the final decission, to leave
If he really wanted to stay, he would have.
And with Ron now coming up with this, after Lewis & McLaren parted ways with grace, and the latter seems to be more happy than since a long time. It makes sound Ron like someone, who could not let go, and regrets the move.

Lewis Hamilton behavior was not like he was forced out, or wanted to stay at any cost. He seemed to be relieved as he finally signed at Mercedes I always had the impression he was waiting for Schumachers decission, as the contract negotiations expired.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:24 pm 
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There is a lot between not being willing or able to meet a driver's demands, and forcing him out. There doesn't have to be some great emotion behind either. Its a business deal for both. McLaren put a value (in terms of salary, commitments, perks, whatever) on what they feel Lewis' contribution is the the team - a value that makes him worth having - and Lewis decided that offer wasn't worth staying. It doesn't have to be "we categorically want him" or "we categorically don't want him" and he didn't absolutely want to leave no matter what, or he wouldn't have wasted the time on the negotiations.

It is far from the first or last time a team won't meet the demands of a driver because they don't find them worth it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:27 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Obviously some will simply not believe that whoever is no longer in partnership with Lewis could have brought about this situation by choice but rather it all be Lewis's choice

If Lewis never wanted to stay why was he making noises about wanting to keep trophies as part of a new deal? And the admission by Ron about the amount of money on offer is lower than Lewis expected due to the current economical climate?

What about McLarens offer to make him the highest paid driver on the grid?
Lewis knew very well the throphies can be a deal breaker, would he have negotiated it , if he was keen to stay?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
It was Lewis who made the final decission, to leave
If he really wanted to stay, he would have.
And with Ron now coming up with this, after Lewis & McLaren parted ways with grace, and the latter seems to be more happy than since a long time. It makes sound Ron like someone, who could not let go, and regrets the move.

Lewis Hamilton behavior was not like he was forced out, or wanted to stay at any cost. He seemed to be relieved as he finally signed at Mercedes I always had the impression he was waiting for Schumachers decission, as the contract negotiations expired.



He made the final decision. But going by that Ron wasn't willing to offer more, even though they could. You could say Ron wasn't willing to give Lewis what he wanted .

Does that not suggest it was Rons decision to let him walk?

In other words we he could have stayed, we didn't like the terms so we let him walk.

Does no one else think it's interesting that in 18 months they have a 14% of the market share?

Or that their turn over is up and their profits are up also?

Or that applied tech is planning to increase their employees almost 10 fold?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:32 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
There is a lot between not being willing or able to meet a driver's demands, and forcing him out. There doesn't have to be some great emotion behind either. Its a business deal for both. McLaren put a value (in terms of salary, commitments, perks, whatever) on what they feel Lewis' contribution is the the team - a value that makes him worth having - and Lewis decided that offer wasn't worth staying. It doesn't have to be "we categorically want him" or "we categorically don't want him" and he didn't absolutely want to leave no matter what, or he wouldn't have wasted the time on the negotiations.

It is far from the first or last time a team won't meet the demands of a driver because they don't find them worth it.

McLaren also has "wasted" much time with negotiations. They could have signed enough other drivers, or st him an ultimatum. But they didn't.
It's also not the first or the last time a driver leaves a team, because he does not find it worth staying. McLaren has quite a nice list of them.
Even Newey run away.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:36 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

You and Laura23 need to get yourselves down to spec savers if you can't see Ron has a huge case of sour grapes.

McLaren offered Lewis more money to stay than what merc offered. Ron even said at one race that drivers keeping their trophies and PR duties was negotiable. But Lewis still left!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:38 pm 
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Did no one else notice the reference to two car teams?

Quote:
And there’s nothing you can do to scale up that business. Revenues and margins have gone up, but it’s still trapped by the fact that you can run only two cars.”


Trapped? ron joining on Lucas side?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Obviously some will simply not believe that whoever is no longer in partnership with Lewis could have brought about this situation by choice but rather it all be Lewis's choice

If Lewis never wanted to stay why was he making noises about wanting to keep trophies as part of a new deal? And the admission by Ron about the amount of money on offer is lower than Lewis expected due to the current economical climate?

What about McLarens offer to make him the highest paid driver on the grid?
Lewis knew very well the throphies can be a deal breaker, would he have negotiated it , if he was keen to stay?


So Lewis never really wanted the trophies but used it as a way to breakdown the negotiations?!

Wow Lewis is a master at business is no idea why he would employ that super agent for 20% of his earnings if he could think that up all by himself!

This is the same guy who thought its be alright to tweet confidential data??

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
It was Lewis who made the final decission, to leave
If he really wanted to stay, he would have.
And with Ron now coming up with this, after Lewis & McLaren parted ways with grace, and the latter seems to be more happy than since a long time. It makes sound Ron like someone, who could not let go, and regrets the move.

Lewis Hamilton behavior was not like he was forced out, or wanted to stay at any cost. He seemed to be relieved as he finally signed at Mercedes I always had the impression he was waiting for Schumachers decission, as the contract negotiations expired.



He made the final decision. But going by that Ron wasn't willing to offer more, even though they could. You could say Ron wasn't willing to give Lewis what he wanted .

Does that not suggest it was Rons decision to let him walk?

In other words we he could have stayed, we didn't like the terms so we let him walk.

Does no one else think it's interesting that in 18 months they have a 14% of the market share?

Or that their turn over is up and their profits are up also?

Or that applied tech is planning to increase their employees almost 10 fold?

Wasn't Lewis turning down the offer to be the highest paid driver on the grid?

Why should it not be true Lewis just wanted to "move out" and experience something new?
Maybe he wouldn't have stayed regardless what hey had offered?
Does it not suggest it was Lewis decission he did not want to stay?

If McLaren did not want to keep Lewis why make him the last minute offer?
However Dennis wants to spin it now, fact is Lewis left McLaren

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Wasn't Lewis turning down the offer to be the highest paid driver on the grid?

Why should it not be true Lewis just wanted to "move out" and experience something new?
Maybe he wouldn't have stayed regardless what hey had offered?
Does it not suggest it was Lewis decission he did not want to stay?

If McLaren did not want to keep Lewis why make him the last minute offer?
However Dennis wants to spin it now, fact is Lewis left McLaren



The actual quote was the "I know we made a very big financial offer, bigger than I believe any Formula 1 driver is enjoying today, other than himself," ."

I took that as meaning a pay cut.

But as we know there was more to the negotiations than money. Trophies, PR, Personal Sponsors.

Remember Lewis in theory could lose money from wages but end up earning more through the personal sponsors he wasn't allowed at Macca.

As for it not being true Lewis wanted to move on. Why can it not be true McLaren made an offer but weren't willing to give Lewis what he wanted?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:46 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Haribo wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Obviously some will simply not believe that whoever is no longer in partnership with Lewis could have brought about this situation by choice but rather it all be Lewis's choice

If Lewis never wanted to stay why was he making noises about wanting to keep trophies as part of a new deal? And the admission by Ron about the amount of money on offer is lower than Lewis expected due to the current economical climate?

What about McLarens offer to make him the highest paid driver on the grid?
Lewis knew very well the throphies can be a deal breaker, would he have negotiated it , if he was keen to stay?


So Lewis never really wanted the trophies but used it as a way to breakdown the negotiations?!

Wow Lewis is a master at business is no idea why he would employ that super agent for 20% of his earnings if he could think that up all by himself!

This is the same guy who thought its be alright to tweet confidential data??

Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.

Do you think Ron would be happy if Lewis had snubbed their offer for Mercedes?
Now he tries to save his face and spins it like they had the final word

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.



Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Obviously he wanted to leave, because he did. Obviously McLaren didn't want him at all costs, because they let him leave. He clearly made demands, or there would be no negotiating in the first place, and McLaren chose not to meet them. That signals a mutual decision - neither wanted what the other offered, so they parted ways. Why should either be bitter about it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.



Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.


So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Wasn't Lewis turning down the offer to be the highest paid driver on the grid?

Why should it not be true Lewis just wanted to "move out" and experience something new?
Maybe he wouldn't have stayed regardless what hey had offered?
Does it not suggest it was Lewis decission he did not want to stay?

If McLaren did not want to keep Lewis why make him the last minute offer?
However Dennis wants to spin it now, fact is Lewis left McLaren



The actual quote was the "I know we made a very big financial offer, bigger than I believe any Formula 1 driver is enjoying today, other than himself," ."

I took that as meaning a pay cut.

But as we know there was more to the negotiations than money. Trophies, PR, Personal Sponsors.

Remember Lewis in theory could lose money from wages but end up earning more through the personal sponsors he wasn't allowed at Macca.

As for it not being true Lewis wanted to move on. Why can it not be true McLaren made an offer but weren't willing to give Lewis what he wanted?

I think Lewis is a top-flight driver and we didn't underestimate his attractiveness to others in Formula One," he told the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes phone-in. "I think we knew that Lewis would be in demand and that's why we made him an offer.

"The offer that we made was higher, I believe, than any other driver in Formula One is currently receiving or will receive next year.

Phone interview from Martin Whitmarsh 3. october 2012.

Dos not sound it was not Lewis decission:
"We put a lot of effort in to trying to keep Lewis. Clearly he's a great asset to any team. We made a big effort but I think ultimately Lewis had to make a decision and he made one and we must now look forward."

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 90474.html

Sam Michaels recently said the reason for Lewis decission to leave was, he wanted to go , and experience something new, nothing else was behind this decission
Are those 2 liars?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:00 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!



It means we are having the same convo as has been had umpteen times. :lol: :lol:

Meanwhile.

Is ron in favour of 3 car teams?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:00 pm 
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Do you not understand that deciding where to stop an offer is as much a decision as choosing not to accept it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Is ron in favour of 3 car teams?

Why wouldn't he be? More money in McLaren's pocket, on all fronts.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:04 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Is ron in favour of 3 car teams?

Why wouldn't he be? More money in McLaren's pocket, on all fronts.



More money out too.

Another set of wages, Another set of mechanics and of course building an extra car.

Meanwhile, would they get enough back in Sponsor ship. Would Vodafone up what they are paying by 50%?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:07 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Obviously he wanted to leave, because he did. Obviously McLaren didn't want him at all costs, because they let him leave. He clearly made demands, or there would be no negotiating in the first place, and McLaren chose not to meet them. That signals a mutual decision - neither wanted what the other offered, so they parted ways. Why should either be bitter about it?

How can you hold someone who does not really want to stay?
Ron sounds bitter, because he brought it up,that it was not Lewis decission.
He could have said, "He chose to leave, we wish him well, and look foreward to 2013 bla bla bla..."
The usual stuff, but with his comment he looks like a sore loser, not like someone who does not care to much, about his departure, because they did not try to keep him.
It hurts his pride Lewis chose to leave, him the big boss of McLaren. "Nobody leaves him, if he does not want it"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:11 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.



Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.


So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!

Scumacher let an unltimatum run out. Therefore Mercedes chose to replace him, and signed Lewis

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Well the first negotiations with Mercedes have been at Dezember 2011! ( confirmed from Haug, Fry & Brawn)
Why should Lewis negotiated with them if he did not want to leave McLaren.
For me it looked like mercedes & Lewis waited for Schumachers decission to stay or to leave
So Hamilton & his management tried to negotiate the impossible at McLaren and played for time. If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, they would have turned down some of the dealbreakers and came to an agreement.



Schui never made a decision. It was made for him.


So if Merc and Lewis joining up was dependant on Schumi leaving and Schumi didn't make a decision meanwhile McLaren signed Perez this means Lewis was forced out?!

Scumacher let an unltimatum run out. Therefore Mercedes chose to replace him, and signed Lewis


No actual timeframe was given to Michael he was shocked about the Lewis deal so shocked he didn't even have time to announce his retirement!

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