planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:18 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:46 pm
Posts: 347
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

_________________
Me Like - Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg
Over rated, over paid - Räikkönen, Alonso, Vettel. Schumacher
Disappointing - Massa, Kobayashi
I may be wrong about - Alonso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1106
Johnston wrote:
fieldstvl wrote:
Well, obviously I haven't really got a clue what was being negotiated, but if I had to guess I'd say that it could involve the things you've mentioned about personal sponsorship, etc, plus as big a salary as was possible, plus probably loads of other stuff as well.



I've already said it was about the blue M&Ms.

The man simply didn't want blue M&Ms. Ron he was was feared of a discrimination law suite by blue M&Ms.

Image

It's their fault I tell you. Damn trouble making Blue M&Ms . Bet you Alonso and Seb have Blue M&M parties saving all the ones Lewis discards. :lol: :lol:


Now, the shop owner and his son, that's a different story altogether...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Chunky wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
Haribo wrote:
Chunky wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Chunky wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Chunky wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:07 pm
Posts: 504
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Chunky wrote:
MclarenBullet wrote:
Bless him, agree with the post above. Very sour grapes from a proud man.

Mclaren and Ron have messed up, he tried to be the business man that he is and it back fired.

No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.


When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.

_________________
Trying to use 'tongue in cheek' humour in a forum is like wearing a Borat t-shirt in Kazakhstan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 3048
Any employee is dispensable if you have or can replace them with an equal or better quality replacement.

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1106
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.


You're not seriously comparing this...

Image

with this... are you? If anything it makes the analogy even stronger ;)

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1106
lamo wrote:
Any employee is dispensable if you have or can replace them with an equal or better quality replacement.


One might argue that perhaps therein lies the issue.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:11 pm
Posts: 3029
pokerman wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

Where does Button fit in this, is he his bit on the side? 8O

Button is the very well taken care of, long term mistress who sometimes delivers ecstasy and sometimes misery. Everyone has a love-hate relationship with the mistress. In the end, the mistress is often the true love :-D

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Chunky wrote:
No, they both messed up. A bit like a marriage that had no need to fail but disintegrated about who was doing the cleaning. Wars have started with no real intent or need as well (WW1, etc).

Both sides have now said it wasn't about the money. It can't have been about status, Hamilton has always said it's not important and he doesn't have it at Merc.

So looks like it's about promotion time or trophies. I'm betting trophies, which were a matter of principle for both. How stupid, they both lost out. Should have tossed a coin.

Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

it's a fact McLaren is unable to keep top drivers, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkönen, Senna ,Prost
It's the drivers wich make the people watch it, not the teams.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
lamo wrote:
Any employee is dispensable if you have or can replace them with an equal or better quality replacement.

Same is for teams or companies. If McLaren left F1 it would exist without them.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Lewis seemed not unhappy to "lose", compared to Ron
To continue with the marriage thing.
Dennis sounds like a man , who says: "No, my wive did not leave me, I let her go with her new love"

He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

it's a fact McLaren is unable to keep top drivers, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkönen, Senna ,Prost
It's the drivers wich make the people watch it, not the teams.

Prost was with McLaren for a total of 6 years, he also went back to them in 95 to help them with development and only left in 96 to start his own team so he had no hard feelings about McLaren. Raikkonen was with McLaren for 5 years, still a long time for one driver to stay at one team and he was at Ferrari for only 3. Senna stayed at McLaren for 6 years just like Prost, in those 6 years he won the title 3 times and he left because he wanted to drive for Williams thinking they had the fastest car, the decision to leave ended up with him dying. Hamilton was with McLaren for 6 seasons and it sounds like it was pretty mutal about him leaving, he didn't want to stay but they didn't really want him either. The only one who really left well before he really should have we Alonso and we all know McLaren wanted rid of him just as much as he wanted out. Out of those drivers the only one I'd say Dennis really really didn't want to leave was Senna.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
]
He sounds more like a man who was more worried about keeping the house rather then the wife tbh. He wanted the trophies/money/whatever more than he wanted Lewis. Hamilton is just a driver, he's dispensable to the McLaren Group as a whole and Ron will have just evaluated him like any other employee.

Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

it's a fact McLaren is unable to keep top drivers, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkönen, Senna ,Prost
It's the drivers wich make the people watch it, not the teams.

Prost was with McLaren for a total of 6 years, he also went back to them in 95 to help them with development and only left in 96 to start his own team so he had no hard feelings about McLaren. Raikkonen was with McLaren for 5 years, still a long time for one driver to stay at one team and he was at Ferrari for only 3. Senna stayed at McLaren for 6 years just like Prost, in those 6 years he won the title 3 times and he left because he wanted to drive for Williams thinking they had the fastest car, the decision to leave ended up with him dying. Hamilton was with McLaren for 6 seasons and it sounds like it was pretty mutal about him leaving, he didn't want to stay but they didn't really want him either. The only one who really left well before he really should have we Alonso and we all know McLaren wanted rid of him just as much as he wanted out. Out of those drivers the only one I'd say Dennis really really didn't want to leave was Senna.

So you say Whitmarsh & Co all liars. The offer to make him best paid driver of F1 was also not there?
It's only Ron who comes out now & says different after all media & other teams have said , Lewis departure weakened McLaren.
Ron it too proud to let this sit on him,And to agree someone chose another tean over his, so he came up with his view that it makes it look better for him.
It's like a football team after they lost the fimnal to say, oh yes , we could have won If we really wanted.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.

Bad Company used to play in front of 5000 people while Queen used to have 50 000.
I saw both live, And Queen with Mercury was one of the best live acts ever, because of him and his charisma.
Bad Company was nice but nothing special.
It's nonsense to say Queen was as good as they have been with Mercury, some people you can not really replace

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
lamo wrote:
Any employee is dispensable if you have or can replace them with an equal or better quality replacement.

There lies the rub?

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
ashley313 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Sounds like a man who is ready to see how his new, younger, cheaper, less dramatic wife is going to perform rather than get hung up on the ol' bitch with huge demands and few benefits.


:eeps:

Where does Button fit in this, is he his bit on the side? 8O

Button is the very well taken care of, long term mistress who sometimes delivers ecstasy and sometimes misery. Everyone has a love-hate relationship with the mistress. In the end, the mistress is often the true love :-D

I sort of picture it the other way round, Button the dependable if not sometimes boring wife, Hamilton the mistress who delivers ecstacy and sometimes misery, perhaps too much misery so time for a change

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.

Bad Company used to play in front of 5000 people while Queen used to have 50 000.
I saw both live, And Queen with Mercury was one of the best live acts ever, because of him and his charisma.
Bad Company was nice but nothing special.
It's nonsense to say Queen was as good as they have been with Mercury, some people you can not really replace


I didn't say they were as good. Mainly as post Free I don't really like Paul Rodgers, a lot of hype and he seems fairly well rated for some reason I just don't "Get" him. I just pointed out that like Macca they carried on and were still successful and made money. They didn't "Die" along with Freddie just like Macca won't drop off the radar because Lewis has left.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Therefore they lose all great drivers.
Ron sitting on his high horse

No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

it's a fact McLaren is unable to keep top drivers, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkönen, Senna ,Prost
It's the drivers wich make the people watch it, not the teams.

Prost was with McLaren for a total of 6 years, he also went back to them in 95 to help them with development and only left in 96 to start his own team so he had no hard feelings about McLaren. Raikkonen was with McLaren for 5 years, still a long time for one driver to stay at one team and he was at Ferrari for only 3. Senna stayed at McLaren for 6 years just like Prost, in those 6 years he won the title 3 times and he left because he wanted to drive for Williams thinking they had the fastest car, the decision to leave ended up with him dying. Hamilton was with McLaren for 6 seasons and it sounds like it was pretty mutal about him leaving, he didn't want to stay but they didn't really want him either. The only one who really left well before he really should have we Alonso and we all know McLaren wanted rid of him just as much as he wanted out. Out of those drivers the only one I'd say Dennis really really didn't want to leave was Senna.

So you say Whitmarsh & Co all liars. The offer to make him best paid driver of F1 was also not there?
It's only Ron who comes out now & says different after all media & other teams have said , Lewis departure weakened McLaren.
Ron it too proud to let this sit on him,And to agree someone chose another tean over his, so he came up with his view that it makes it look better for him.
It's like a football team after they lost the fimnal to say, oh yes , we could have won If we really wanted.

Well if we believe Lewis it wasn't all about money so I doubt he'd care about that. McLaren and Dennis wanted to keep the trophies, Lewis wanted to keep the trophies, someone had to give and it wasn't Dennis according to his words. He clearly values his household goods more than his relationships. Simple as that. Hamilton didn't have much of a choice in the matter once Dennis had made his mind up, remember the only reason Dennis agreed to give Senna a million a race in 93 was thanks to a coin toss. Once Dennis makes his mind up that's it. He chose trophies of Hamilton and Hamilton then knew he had to leave.

Only Hamilton fans can't seem to grasp the concept that McLaren maybe wanted rid of Lewis as much as Lewis wanted to leave at the end of the day, the whole thing came across as pretty mutual in the end to me. The relationship came to a natural end, McLaren want a new era, Hamilton wants to prove himself elsewhere.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.

Did Queen ever go out of favour? I know they struggled to make in the early days, i thought they never looked back after Bohemian Rapshody?

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:

Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.

Bad Company used to play in front of 5000 people while Queen used to have 50 000.
I saw both live, And Queen with Mercury was one of the best live acts ever, because of him and his charisma.
Bad Company was nice but nothing special.
It's nonsense to say Queen was as good as they have been with Mercury, some people you can not really replace


I didn't say they were as good. Mainly as post Free I don't really like Paul Rodgers, a lot of hype and he seems fairly well rated for some reason I just don't "Get" him. I just pointed out that like Macca they carried on and were still successful and made money. They didn't "Die" along with Freddie just like Macca won't drop off the radar because Lewis has left.

Of course McL will continue racing, and be successfull more or less, but I won't support / or pay for Rodgers behind the wheel ;)

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No he just said that they didn't try that hard to keep Lewis once it was clear where he really wanted to go. Ron knows every team loses their drivers eventually, he lost Senna after all. Guess what? McLaren recovered and I don't rate Hamilton anywhere near Senna's level yet. McLaren don't need Hamilton. Hamilton probably doesn't need McLaren. Dennis just has the balls to admit that.

it's a fact McLaren is unable to keep top drivers, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkönen, Senna ,Prost
It's the drivers wich make the people watch it, not the teams.

Prost was with McLaren for a total of 6 years, he also went back to them in 95 to help them with development and only left in 96 to start his own team so he had no hard feelings about McLaren. Raikkonen was with McLaren for 5 years, still a long time for one driver to stay at one team and he was at Ferrari for only 3. Senna stayed at McLaren for 6 years just like Prost, in those 6 years he won the title 3 times and he left because he wanted to drive for Williams thinking they had the fastest car, the decision to leave ended up with him dying. Hamilton was with McLaren for 6 seasons and it sounds like it was pretty mutal about him leaving, he didn't want to stay but they didn't really want him either. The only one who really left well before he really should have we Alonso and we all know McLaren wanted rid of him just as much as he wanted out. Out of those drivers the only one I'd say Dennis really really didn't want to leave was Senna.

So you say Whitmarsh & Co all liars. The offer to make him best paid driver of F1 was also not there?
It's only Ron who comes out now & says different after all media & other teams have said , Lewis departure weakened McLaren.
Ron it too proud to let this sit on him,And to agree someone chose another tean over his, so he came up with his view that it makes it look better for him.
It's like a football team after they lost the fimnal to say, oh yes , we could have won If we really wanted.

Well if we believe Lewis it wasn't all about money so I doubt he'd care about that. McLaren and Dennis wanted to keep the trophies, Lewis wanted to keep the trophies, someone had to give and it wasn't Dennis according to his words. He clearly values his household goods more than his relationships. Simple as that. Hamilton didn't have much of a choice in the matter once Dennis had made his mind up, remember the only reason Dennis agreed to give Senna a million a race in 93 was thanks to a coin toss. Once Dennis makes his mind up that's it. He chose trophies of Hamilton and Hamilton then knew he had to leave.

Only Hamilton fans can't seem to grasp the concept that McLaren maybe wanted rid of Lewis as much as Lewis wanted to leave at the end of the day, the whole thing came across as pretty mutual in the end to me. The relationship came to a natural end, McLaren want a new era, Hamilton wants to prove himself elsewhere.

Do you really think Lewis did not know the trophies would be the dealbreaker, after he spent most of his live at McLaren?
IMO it was an negotiation tool, nothing else.
At the end Hamilton had the last word in it, and choose to leave, as much as Ron likes to portray it different.

If McLaren wanted to get rid of him they could have stopped the negotiations, or never made some.

Whitmarsh said again & again they want to keep him, and how sure he is of signing something soon, how much he convinced is Hamilton stays etc. He would not have said it , if he had not the board behind him

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
pokerman wrote:
Did Queen ever go out of favour? I know they struggled to make in the early days, i thought they never looked back after Bohemian Rapshody?


Nah there was a period they had troubles and talked about splitting early 80's I think . Not sure of the full details, but watched a few Docu's with Brian May in them.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:37 pm
Posts: 854
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

Most people think (when you read the comments under the articles) Ron just tries to keep face.

This is my opinion, too.

BTW drivers are more than just an employee, why do the teams pay them millions of dollars, more than the bosses have for themselves?
It's the drivers wich make the people watch F1, not the teams. Most drivers have 10x more fans and supporters than their teams
Why is Vettel so suvccessfull? RBR treats him like a king. Same with Ferrari and their top drivers.

And funnily most Jenson Button fans want this for next season at McLaren, too.

_________________
"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Haribo wrote:
Most people think (when you read the comments under the articles) Ron just tries to keep face.

This is my opinion, too.

BTW drivers are more than just an employee, why do the teams pay them millions of dollars, more than the bosses have for themselves?
It's the drivers wich make the people watch F1, not the teams. Most drivers have 10x more fans and supporters than their teams
Why is Vettel so suvccessfull? RBR treats him like a king. Same with Ferrari and their top drivers.

And funnily most Jenson Button fans want this for next season at McLaren, too.


The simple answer to that is market forces. A drivers image rights are worth more so the team have to pay for that. I would say Rons face on a shop window is worth very little.

Plus like all marketplaces it's supply and demand. Lewis can go into negotiation and say "Ferrari have offered me...." he's in demand. The likes of Ron can't do that. Can yousee Red Bull approach Ron to take over the team?

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:11 pm
Posts: 691
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Nephilist wrote:
When there are so few people who can achieve the same level of results then the person is anything but dispensable. Otherwise it's like saying Freddie Mercury was dispensable in Queen, MS was dispensable to Ferrari, Alexander the Great was despensable to Greece etc. It's hard to believe he evaluated him 'like any other employee'.


Queen isn't too good example mate, they have done something like 2 tours without Freddie.

Ferrari have won championships without MS.

Life goes on, relationships end. The team survives.

Seem like you never saw them live.
How sucessfull have they been without Freddy?
Who knows the name of their replacement singer? ( Paul Rodgers)
He has a decent voice, but not as good, and lacks carisma


Still replaced him, made money, did sold out concerts and Paul Rodgers was a draw on himself. He has a big fan base too because of his Bad Company and free days .

Remember with Freddy they near called it a day at one point When Queen went out of favour and they weren't making money. It wasn't always huge hits.

I was more pissed John Deacon wasn't on the tours. He was a much underrated part of the band.


Queen without Freddie is like food without salt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
Johnston wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Did Queen ever go out of favour? I know they struggled to make in the early days, i thought they never looked back after Bohemian Rapshody?


Nah there was a period they had troubles and talked about splitting early 80's I think . Not sure of the full details, but watched a few Docu's with Brian May in them.

Yes that was pre Bohemian Rapshody

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Posts: 5879
Location: London
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
No you think Hamilton had the last word on it Haribo. We don't really know what went on and who jumped first.

Dennis's recent words would have us believe McLaren decided they didn't really want to try that hard keeping Hamilton. Hamilton has only said he wanted a new challenge. So it looks like McLaren made the choice for Hamilton to leave, Hamilton only had to choose where he then wanted to go and Merc was really the only choice.

As for Whitmarsh, he wasn't going to go around saying he wanted rid of the driver who was still in the WDC hunt for them at the time, it would have been a PR disaster. Even in 2007 Dennis didn't say he wanted rid of Alonso until the season was out even if he did make that "we are fighting Fernando" gaffe in China. Teams don't just admit they want rid of a driver, they either replace them straight away or wait until the season is over and the driver has left before admitting their true feeling and Dennis has done just that with Hamilton. He was disappointed to see him go but he wasn't going o bend over backwards to keep him with because at the end if the to to Dennis, Hamilton is just another guy on the payroll.

But really we have no idea who jumped first. Nothing in this situation is as black or white as it see,s on the surface and I still think the choice for both parties to part company was mutual. McLaren wanted rid of Hamilton and Hamilton wanted to leave and that's exactly what they got. Both parties seem happy enough now.

Dennis recent word come too late to make it beliveable, it was really in their hands. This is the point.
All the other who had something to say Lowe, Neale, Michaels were sorry to see him leave, and did very much want him to stay.
IMO it's BS they wanted to get rid of him. Maybe it was Rons ego wich got hurt, Lewis did not agree on anything they wanted from him. Like D. Hill said they caged him like a bird, at McL, and drivers are not trained seals, once they get fed up with jumping through the loops.
McLaren & Dennis did not seem too happy. IF Dennis was happy he would have answered different.

IMO it's McLarens & Dennis attitude why they are not very successfull the last 13 years, when they treat their best drivers just like any other guy on the pay roll.

BTW Hamilton & Whitmarsh both said it was Hamilton who made the call, so it was his decission to leave. It was Ron who said he sees no reason why Hamilton would not drive at McLaren 2013, some time before the decission.

So it's only your opinion that Hamilton was the one who chose to leave and McLaren wanted him to stay. Thanks for clarifying that.

Like I said, we don't know the true ins and outs of what happened. From the outside the decision looks mutual from both parties. I don't know why that's so hard to accept from Hamilton fans. He is just an employee at the end if the day.

There is the route of the problem then i doubt that Alonso is viewed as just another employee at Ferrari or Vettel at Red Bull, and i doubt Hamilton will be viewed as just another employee at Mercedes

To the men in suits who crunch the numbers that decide how much their team has to go facing and even if they will go racing then yes the drivers are just two more employees on the pay roll. The head bosses at Merc will view both Hamilton and Rosberg as disposable, the money crunchers at McLaren will view Perez and Button the same. F1 is a business after all. The drivers are just a small cog in a very large machine. The reason drives earn so much? Because they are the ones the public see on weekends, they are the faces we relate to. But the men in suits behind the desks at the head office don't care about that unless it is making them more money.

_________________
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Get well soon Schumi. Keep fighting as hard as we know you can. Thinking of Corinna, Gina-Maria, Mick and the rest of the Schumacher family.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
pokerman wrote:
Yes that was pre Bohemian Rapshody



Bohemian Rhapshody was something like '75. The first time anyway.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
Johnston wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes that was pre Bohemian Rapshody



Bohemian Rhapshody was something like '75. The first time anyway.

Ok i didn't remember the date but seen the programme or similar and knew some of the history anyway, the group were on their knees before Bohemian Rapshody made them, i dont recall the group losing thier way afterwards?

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
Yeah they done a funky album, canny mind the name. But it was sorta Discoish.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 4699
Johnston wrote:
Yeah they done a funky album, canny mind the name. But it was sorta Discoish.

That was after Bohemian Raspshody and it flopped?

_________________
PFI Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place

2014: Currently 3rd


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blackhander, kleefton, Willsy and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.218s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]