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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:22 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
but the ask Lewis the same questions but i don't hear him saying "ohh i left,they didn't kick me out blah blah blah"...don't know what you are going on about though,it seems reading this that Ron is a bit bitter even though he won't admit it(obviously he wouldn't admit that),but that is Ron,he doesn't know how to hide his emotions....like i said,this whole thing is a "need to know" basis and frankly even though we the fans and the media are too curious,we don't really need to know what happened and who left who so Ron had no reason to be airing private matters in public.



Lewis has more to lose by coming off like a sugarplum in interviews. Drivers will be well schooled in what to and not say to make sure the public perception is kept tip top.

Ron on the other hand knows that every one already thinks he's a sugarplum anyway so has nothing to lose.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
but the ask Lewis the same questions but i don't hear him saying "ohh i left,they didn't kick me out blah blah blah"...don't know what you are going on about though,it seems reading this that Ron is a bit bitter even though he won't admit it(obviously he wouldn't admit that),but that is Ron,he doesn't know how to hide his emotions....like i said,this whole thing is a "need to know" basis and frankly even though we the fans and the media are too curious,we don't really need to know what happened and who left who so Ron had no reason to be airing private matters in public.



Lewis has more to lose by coming off like a sugarplum in interviews. Drivers will be well schooled in what to and not say to make sure the public perception is kept tip top.

Ron on the other hand knows that every one already thinks he's a sugarplum anyway so has nothing to lose.

so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:16 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:



Well thing is which one is more likely to tell the truth.

The one that has to keep up the public image (And already damaged by things like Twitter).

Or the one with nothing to lose and won't give a fairy cakes?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:



Well thing is which one is more likely to tell the truth.

The one that has to keep up the public image (And already damaged by things like Twitter).

Or the one with nothing to lose and won't give a fairy cakes?


Since it was announced Lewis was leaving he won 2 Grand Prixs and retired from the lead in 3. 5 out of 7 races he was getting what was capable from the car.
In the same 7 races, Jenson inherited 1 win although he was in the mix for the race in the first half. Where was he in the other 4 races, not that this is post Jenson setup crisis phase at well.

Sponsors are as fickle as some fans, so I would suggest it is slightly embarrassing for Mclaren to say "yes thats the guy we are letting leave, the one who challenged for the win in 5 of the last the last 7 races". We are keeping the guy who challenged for 1 win over that same period and won it when the other guy retired in front of him and generally finished 2-3 places behind the other guy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:



Well thing is which one is more likely to tell the truth.

The one that has to keep up the public image (And already damaged by things like Twitter).

Or the one with nothing to lose and won't give a fairy cakes?

the one that doesn't act like he was dumped. :-P


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:58 pm 
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lamo wrote:

Since it was announced Lewis was leaving he won 2 Grand Prixs and retired from the lead in 3. 5 out of 7 races he was getting what was capable from the car.
In the same 7 races, Jenson inherited 1 win although he was in the mix for the race in the first half. Where was he in the other 4 races, not that this is post Jenson setup crisis phase at well.

Sponsors are as fickle as some fans, so I would suggest it is slightly embarrassing for Mclaren to say "yes thats the guy we are letting leave, the one who challenged for the win in 5 of the last the last 7 races". We are keeping the guy who challenged for 1 win over that same period and won it when the other guy retired in front of him and generally finished 2-3 places behind the other guy.



And sponsors are also interested in their money being worthwhile. It's been said the Sponsors weren't happy with two brits.


If sponsors were that unhappy with them Loosing Lewis why didn't they increase the money after all they know it's business and there is not a bottomless pot of money? Maybe the sponsors are more than happy with Sergio and JB. ;)

In fact maybe it wasn't even money. Maybe the sponsors would rather have two drivers to do the PR events than a Driver who won't.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:



Well thing is which one is more likely to tell the truth.

The one that has to keep up the public image (And already damaged by things like Twitter).

Or the one with nothing to lose and won't give a fairy cakes?

Hamilton. Much more likely to tell the truth, than Dennis who would tell you the sky is green & the erarth is a plate, if the Stakeholers want to hear it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
lamo wrote:

Since it was announced Lewis was leaving he won 2 Grand Prixs and retired from the lead in 3. 5 out of 7 races he was getting what was capable from the car.
In the same 7 races, Jenson inherited 1 win although he was in the mix for the race in the first half. Where was he in the other 4 races, not that this is post Jenson setup crisis phase at well.

Sponsors are as fickle as some fans, so I would suggest it is slightly embarrassing for Mclaren to say "yes thats the guy we are letting leave, the one who challenged for the win in 5 of the last the last 7 races". We are keeping the guy who challenged for 1 win over that same period and won it when the other guy retired in front of him and generally finished 2-3 places behind the other guy.



And sponsors are also interested in their money being worthwhile. It's been said the Sponsors weren't happy with two brits.


If sponsors were that unhappy with them Loosing Lewis why didn't they increase the money after all they know it's business and there is not a bottomless pot of money? Maybe the sponsors are more than happy with Sergio and JB. ;)

In fact maybe it wasn't even money. Maybe the sponsors would rather have two drivers to do the PR events than a Driver who won't.

The last offer wich would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1 is said to has been coming from one of the shareholders. One of them tried until Thurdays night to convince Hamilton to stay.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:41 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
so we agree that he sounds like a sugarplum then with his ranting. :-P ....he comes off as those people that when they get fired they come up with gems like these "you can't fire me because i quit" :lol:



Well thing is which one is more likely to tell the truth.

The one that has to keep up the public image (And already damaged by things like Twitter).

Or the one with nothing to lose and won't give a fairy cakes?

the one that doesn't act like he was dumped. :-P

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:48 pm 
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Inappropriate post removed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
lamo wrote:

Since it was announced Lewis was leaving he won 2 Grand Prixs and retired from the lead in 3. 5 out of 7 races he was getting what was capable from the car.
In the same 7 races, Jenson inherited 1 win although he was in the mix for the race in the first half. Where was he in the other 4 races, not that this is post Jenson setup crisis phase at well.

Sponsors are as fickle as some fans, so I would suggest it is slightly embarrassing for Mclaren to say "yes thats the guy we are letting leave, the one who challenged for the win in 5 of the last the last 7 races". We are keeping the guy who challenged for 1 win over that same period and won it when the other guy retired in front of him and generally finished 2-3 places behind the other guy.



And sponsors are also interested in their money being worthwhile. It's been said the Sponsors weren't happy with two brits.


If sponsors were that unhappy with them Loosing Lewis why didn't they increase the money after all they know it's business and there is not a bottomless pot of money? Maybe the sponsors are more than happy with Sergio and JB. ;)

In fact maybe it wasn't even money. Maybe the sponsors would rather have two drivers to do the PR events than a Driver who won't.

funny how those sponsors said it would be great to have two brits in 2010...and also funny that sponsors say that when Perez was already signed :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:52 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
funny how those sponsors said it would be great to have two brits in 2010...and also funny that sponsors say that when Perez was already signed :lol:


Maybe they were happy but seen the negative aspect after three years. Remember these guys are constantly doing market research.


Haribo wrote:
The last offer wich would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1 is said to has been coming from one of the shareholders. One of them tried until Thurdays night to convince Hamilton to stay.


Best paid "Other than himself" the word currently was also used. If you are best at anything other than.... Who is better. If you are getting paid the most other than..... who is getting most.? If it was anyone other than himself would you not think that suggest a pay cut. Notice at no time has anyone mentioned McLaren offered him a pay rise.


On Thursday night when he phoned MW and quit on the Wednesday?

And I didn't say Shareholders I said sponsors. You know the guys who have contracts with McLaren to say they will have services from drivers for so many days a year.

Haribo wrote:
Hamilton. Much more likely to tell the truth, than Dennis who would tell you the sky is green & the erarth is a plate, if the Stakeholers want to hear it.


Hamilton? You mean the guy that was saying he was sure he was going to resign for Macca?

Hamilton hasn't exactly been a shining example of truth and honesty in his years in F1 ;)

Oh and Hamilton who has a public persona to keep up and of course keep the door open as he wants back again.

It also wouldn't look good Lewis saying I was asking too much, it would make him look greedy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
funny how those sponsors said it would be great to have two brits in 2010...and also funny that sponsors say that when Perez was already signed :lol:


Maybe they were happy but seen the negative aspect after three years. Remember these guys are constantly doing market research.


Haribo wrote:
The last offer wich would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1 is said to has been coming from one of the shareholders. One of them tried until Thurdays night to convince Hamilton to stay.


Best paid "Other than himself" the word currently was also used. If you are best at anything other than.... Who is better. If you are getting paid the most other than..... who is getting most.? If it was anyone other than himself would you not think that suggest a pay cut. Notice at no time has anyone mentioned McLaren offered him a pay rise.


On Thursday night when he phoned MW and quit on the Wednesday?

And I didn't say Shareholders I said sponsors. You know the guys who have contracts with McLaren to say they will have services from drivers for so many days a year.

Haribo wrote:
Hamilton. Much more likely to tell the truth, than Dennis who would tell you the sky is green & the erarth is a plate, if the Stakeholers want to hear it.


Hamilton? You mean the guy that was saying he was sure he was going to resign for Macca?

Hamilton hasn't exactly been a shining example of truth and honesty in his years in F1 ;)

Oh and Hamilton who has a public persona to keep up and of course keep the door open as he wants back again.

It also wouldn't look good Lewis saying I was asking too much, it would make him look greedy.

He ws sure until Ron talked publicly about economic climate pay cut, etc, trying to hummilate the only WDC of the last decade publicly. This has gone too far. I would have told him to f++ off,too, wich Lewis somehow did.

Dennis is really not a shining example of truth and honesty , remember 2007?

Hamilton was not more dishonest than ANY other driver in F1, au contraire, is is a really bad actor and lier, not like some of his collegues.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:21 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
funny how those sponsors said it would be great to have two brits in 2010...and also funny that sponsors say that when Perez was already signed :lol:


Maybe they were happy but seen the negative aspect after three years. Remember these guys are constantly doing market research.


Haribo wrote:
The last offer wich would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1 is said to has been coming from one of the shareholders. One of them tried until Thurdays night to convince Hamilton to stay.


Best paid "Other than himself" the word currently was also used. If you are best at anything other than.... Who is better. If you are getting paid the most other than..... who is getting most.? If it was anyone other than himself would you not think that suggest a pay cut. Notice at no time has anyone mentioned McLaren offered him a pay rise.


On Thursday night when he phoned MW and quit on the Wednesday?

And I didn't say Shareholders I said sponsors. You know the guys who have contracts with McLaren to say they will have services from drivers for so many days a year.

Haribo wrote:
Hamilton. Much more likely to tell the truth, than Dennis who would tell you the sky is green & the erarth is a plate, if the Stakeholers want to hear it.


Hamilton? You mean the guy that was saying he was sure he was going to resign for Macca?

Hamilton hasn't exactly been a shining example of truth and honesty in his years in F1 ;)

Oh and Hamilton who has a public persona to keep up and of course keep the door open as he wants back again.

It also wouldn't look good Lewis saying I was asking too much, it would make him look greedy.

This "Other than himself" is not really a proof, IMO it's not an original quote.
Alonso e.g earns more than Leewis did. Massa about the same

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Quote:
"I think we knew that Lewis would be in demand, that's why we made him an offer. The offer that we made was higher than, I believe, any other driver in Formula 1 is currently receiving, or will receive next year.


Quote:
"It was a good offer but clearly we had to look at the benefits because we recognised that there was a serious threat."

Quote:
He added: "We put a lot of effort in to trying to keep Lewis. Clearly he is a great asset to any race team, so we made a big effort but I think ultimately Lewis had to make a decision, he made one, and we must now look forward."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
He ws sure until Ron talked publicly about economic climate pay cut, etc, trying to hummilate the only WDC of the last decade publicly. This has gone too far. I would have told him to f++ off,too, wich Lewis somehow did.

Dennis is really not a shining example of truth and honesty , remember 2007?

Hamilton was not more dishonest than ANY other driver in F1, au contraire, is is a really bad actor and lier, not like some of his collegues.



Remember it was Lewis that started that swimming pool contest. Lewis was the one that talked publicly first. Why is Lewis allowed to say things in public to "Humiliate" Mclaren but tRon can't reply? What is good for the goose is good for the gander ;)

Remember 2007, who was one of the drivers involved? IIRC Lewis took the get out of jail free card offered.

Haribo wrote:


This "Other than himself" is not really a proof, IMO it's not an original quote.
Alonso e.g earns more than Leewis did. Massa about the same


Yes the "other than" is the original quote IMO because MW said it more than once So unless SKY edit live footage and overdub peoples words MW has said it.

Alonso earns more but that is through sponsorship too not not just wages. There is a difference between what drivers get paid by the teams and what they earn.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:40 pm 
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Is this really still going on?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
He ws sure until Ron talked publicly about economic climate pay cut, etc, trying to hummilate the only WDC of the last decade publicly. This has gone too far. I would have told him to f++ off,too, wich Lewis somehow did.

Dennis is really not a shining example of truth and honesty , remember 2007?

Hamilton was not more dishonest than ANY other driver in F1, au contraire, is is a really bad actor and lier, not like some of his collegues.



Remember it was Lewis that started that swimming pool contest. Lewis was the one that talked publicly first. Why is Lewis allowed to say things in public to "Humiliate" Mclaren but tRon can't reply? What is good for the goose is good for the gander ;)

Remember 2007, who was one of the drivers involved? IIRC Lewis took the get out of jail free card offered.

Haribo wrote:


This "Other than himself" is not really a proof, IMO it's not an original quote.
Alonso e.g earns more than Leewis did. Massa about the same


Yes the "other than" is the original quote IMO because MW said it more than once So unless SKY edit live footage and overdub peoples words MW has said it.

Alonso earns more but that is through sponsorship too not not just wages. There is a difference between what drivers get paid by the teams and what they earn.

Ferrari is & was always the team wich pays the drivers most. Same with Alonso.

2007 ? Lewis was absolutely not involved in Spygate,wich could not be said from the most other McLaren team members.
Alonso & De La Rosa where the 2 involved, McLaren had the choice to be banned for years or pay 100Mill $. Remember?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:29 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Is this really still going on?


Yeah it's off season. Great ain't it :lol: :lol:



Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
He ws sure until Ron talked publicly about economic climate pay cut, etc, trying to hummilate the only WDC of the last decade publicly. This has gone too far. I would have told him to f++ off,too, wich Lewis somehow did.

Dennis is really not a shining example of truth and honesty , remember 2007?

Hamilton was not more dishonest than ANY other driver in F1, au contraire, is is a really bad actor and lier, not like some of his collegues.



Remember it was Lewis that started that swimming pool contest. Lewis was the one that talked publicly first. Why is Lewis allowed to say things in public to "Humiliate" Mclaren but tRon can't reply? What is good for the goose is good for the gander ;)

Remember 2007, who was one of the drivers involved? IIRC Lewis took the get out of jail free card offered.

Haribo wrote:

Ferrari is & was always the team wich pays the drivers most. Same with Alonso.

2007 ? Lewis was absolutely not involved in Spygate,wich could not be said from the most other McLaren team members.
Alonso & De La Rosa where the 2 involved, McLaren had the choice to be banned for years or pay 100Mill $. Remember?



Absolutely not? Why were you there? Lewis was up in front of the WMSC to give evidence. I suppose he went just for fun?

As for wages. Seen as wages are very rarely published AND contain performance bonuses. Any figures given publicaly are estimates. How do you know Ferrari ALWAYS pay the most?

The most common being 30mill for Alonso and 16mill for Lewis. Now if Lewis wanted his wages more than doubled (If they did indeed offer more than alonso so called figure) . Can't you see why Ron would be happy to see him go?

He gets around an extra 25mill+ a year to spend as he sees fit replacing him with sergio. 25Mill is a lot of design time.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:41 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Is this really still going on?


These fanatics are, erm, fanatical. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Is this really still going on?


Yeah it's off season. Great ain't it :lol: :lol:



Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
He ws sure until Ron talked publicly about economic climate pay cut, etc, trying to hummilate the only WDC of the last decade publicly. This has gone too far. I would have told him to f++ off,too, wich Lewis somehow did.

Dennis is really not a shining example of truth and honesty , remember 2007?

Hamilton was not more dishonest than ANY other driver in F1, au contraire, is is a really bad actor and lier, not like some of his collegues.



Remember it was Lewis that started that swimming pool contest. Lewis was the one that talked publicly first. Why is Lewis allowed to say things in public to "Humiliate" Mclaren but tRon can't reply? What is good for the goose is good for the gander ;)

Remember 2007, who was one of the drivers involved? IIRC Lewis took the get out of jail free card offered.

Haribo wrote:

Ferrari is & was always the team wich pays the drivers most. Same with Alonso.

2007 ? Lewis was absolutely not involved in Spygate,wich could not be said from the most other McLaren team members.
Alonso & De La Rosa where the 2 involved, McLaren had the choice to be banned for years or pay 100Mill $. Remember?



Absolutely not? Why were you there? Lewis was up in front of the WMSC to give evidence. I suppose he went just for fun?

As for wages. Seen as wages are very rarely published AND contain performance bonuses. Any figures given publicaly are estimates. How do you know Ferrari ALWAYS pay the most?

The most common being 30mill for Alonso and 16mill for Lewis. Now if Lewis wanted his wages more than doubled (If they did indeed offer more than alonso so called figure) . Can't you see why Ron would be happy to see him go?

He gets around an extra 25mill+ a year to spend as he sees fit replacing him with sergio. 25Mill is a lot of design time.

He was there voluntarily, he was not called, he was there support the team. He was not involved therefore he was asked no questions, you can read the whole script, from the hearing. Lewis chose to go there, and turned up, compared to Alonso & de la Rosa who were suddenly not available, and made their statement per video.

Lewis did not wannt more money IMO, but 1/3rd less than before would not have been acceptable.
If it just was a matter of money, why not hire Kartikeyan? Why do teams spent a lot of money for the top drivers?
Because they can make the difference.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:04 am 
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Johnston wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
funny how those sponsors said it would be great to have two brits in 2010...and also funny that sponsors say that when Perez was already signed :lol:


Maybe they were happy but seen the negative aspect after three years. Remember these guys are constantly doing market research.


Haribo wrote:
The last offer wich would have made Hamilton the best paid driver in F1 is said to has been coming from one of the shareholders. One of them tried until Thurdays night to convince Hamilton to stay.


Best paid "Other than himself" the word currently was also used. If you are best at anything other than.... Who is better. If you are getting paid the most other than..... who is getting most.? If it was anyone other than himself would you not think that suggest a pay cut. Notice at no time has anyone mentioned McLaren offered him a pay rise.


On Thursday night when he phoned MW and quit on the Wednesday?

And I didn't say Shareholders I said sponsors. You know the guys who have contracts with McLaren to say they will have services from drivers for so many days a year.

Haribo wrote:
Hamilton. Much more likely to tell the truth, than Dennis who would tell you the sky is green & the erarth is a plate, if the Stakeholers want to hear it.


Hamilton? You mean the guy that was saying he was sure he was going to resign for Macca?

Hamilton hasn't exactly been a shining example of truth and honesty in his years in F1 ;)

Oh and Hamilton who has a public persona to keep up and of course keep the door open as he wants back again.

It also wouldn't look good Lewis saying I was asking too much, it would make him look greedy.

i was sure that by jan 2013 i'd be living in Vancouver by now...does that make me a liar that am still living in Toronto and not Vancouver? no...Mclaren also said they want to resign Hamilton and also said they were developing 2013 with him in mind....the point is that things change,doesn't always mean that one person is a liar....and Mclaren hasn't exactly been the shining example of truth and honesty either so i don't really get your point.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:19 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
i was sure that by jan 2013 i'd be living in Vancouver by now...does that make me a liar that am still living in Toronto and not Vancouver? no...Mclaren also said they want to resign Hamilton and also said they were developing 2013 with him in mind....the point is that things change,doesn't always mean that one person is a liar....and Mclaren hasn't exactly been the shining example of truth and honesty either so i don't really get your point.


You have exactly got the point. Haribo although seems to think Ron instantly is.




Haribo wrote:

Lewis did not wannt more money IMO, but 1/3rd less than before would not have been acceptable.
If it just was a matter of money, why not hire Kartikeyan? Why do teams spent a lot of money for the top drivers?
Because they can make the difference.



Wait, a while back you said they were going to pay him more than anyone on the grid. Using all the popular estimates that would have almost doubled his wage and now you say a 1/3rd less than before. Which is it?


Did they offer him a huge gut busting amount OR did they offer less?


As for why not hire NK. Well it's all compromise isn't it. Just like everything else in F1. Downforce Vs drag, Horsepower Vs Reliability skill Vs cost.


Another we quote I read yesterday from the McLaren camp if you want to look it up.

Quote:
We had to accept that we didn’t agree terms with Lewis’s management, therefore Lewis and his management team have decided to go elsewhere



That first bit is very intriguing ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Quote:
We had to accept that we didn’t agree terms with Lewis’s management, therefore Lewis and his management team have decided to go elsewhere



That first bit is very intriguing ;)

Well i think the main issue regarding his management were Hamilton's personal sponsorship rights which were basically owned by McLaren so they effectively owned Hamilton, this not being the case at Mercedes i believe?

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