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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:47 am 
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http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/8385 ... el-Critics

I was expecting a car crash but... I actually agree with a lot of what he said. And said in a completely diplomatic manner.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:49 am 
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Me too. Marko making sense, this is way beyond the silly season, it's the crazy season!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
Me too. Marko making sense, this is way beyond the silly season, it's the crazy season!


:lol: Definitely, I thought "who is this imposter?!"


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:59 am 
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In fairness, while Marko has mostly had extreme verbal diarrhoea the past few years, he does from time to time make sense.

His assessment to Mark's psychology and Alonso's games is spot on I think. Same as for the RB car critics. He makes sense and I am pleasantly surprised to read this.

(An imposter would make much sense!)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:30 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
In fairness, while Marko has mostly had extreme verbal diarrhoea the past few years, he does from time to time make sense.

His assessment to Mark's psychology and Alonso's games is spot on I think. Same as for the RB car critics. He makes sense and I am pleasantly surprised to read this.

(An imposter would make much sense!)

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:58 am 
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Are we sure this is Marko?
I actually don't disagree with him, and this shocks me. Well said Helmut.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:34 am 
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Marko, for a lot of rubbish he says, nails it spot on in that piece.
If you want to put your house on a driver to deliver under pressure, its Vettel
Despite having a car with one of the lower top speeds in the last 4 years, he's pulled off many important passes when needed
Webber will beat him at some tracks, probably Monaco, Silverstone, Nurburgring and maybe Brazil being the most likely, but can't do it for 20 races and he has lead Seb in 3 years late on in the season (2009. 2010, 2012) and lost all 3.

Alonso can't get the mind games/politics to work against Vettel. Webber couldn't in 2010 either, Vettel is mentally very strong.

Marko answers just about all the questions the anti Vettel fans try to use to diminish his success and answers them all spot on

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:38 am 
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shocker at the F1 champ being criticized...seriously,everyone is not gonna blow smoke up Vettel's behind,just like every champ long before Vettel was born,there are people who like you and there are people who criticize you,Red Bull seem like they just don't want anyone criticizing them.
ohh and i don't remember Alonso saying he is competing against Hamilton and not Vettel,i remember him saying that Hamilton will be up there by twds the end of the season but don't recall him saying Vettel won't.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:49 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
shocker at the F1 champ being criticized...seriously,everyone is not gonna blow smoke up Vettel's behind,just like every champ long before Vettel was born,there are people who like you and there are people who criticize you,Red Bull seem like they just don't want anyone criticizing them.
ohh and i don't remember Alonso saying he is competing against Hamilton and not Vettel,i remember him saying that Hamilton will be up there by twds the end of the season but don't recall him saying Vettel won't.


I don't remember saying Hamilton but not Vettel exactly, but the fact that he regarded only Hamilton and dismissed/neglected Vettel completely kind of makes that point.

Maybe not a deliberate snide comment from Alonso, maybe he genuinely meant Hamilton, but then again maybe it was. Who knows?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:01 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
shocker at the F1 champ being criticized...seriously,everyone is not gonna blow smoke up Vettel's behind,just like every champ long before Vettel was born,there are people who like you and there are people who criticize you,Red Bull seem like they just don't want anyone criticizing them.
ohh and i don't remember Alonso saying he is competing against Hamilton and not Vettel,i remember him saying that Hamilton will be up there by twds the end of the season but don't recall him saying Vettel won't.


I don't remember saying Hamilton but not Vettel exactly, but the fact that he regarded only Hamilton and dismissed/neglected Vettel completely kind of makes that point.

Maybe not a deliberate snide comment from Alonso, maybe he genuinely meant Hamilton, but then again maybe it was. Who knows?

i like to give people benefit of doubt...maybe he really rates Hamilton that highly,and if he does then why does it bother people? it's his opinion after all and opinions don't always mean it's a fact.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:04 pm 
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I've been a Webber fan for 11 years, and usually despise most of what comes out of Marko's mouth. But fair play to the man - it seems this time he's actually thought about it before speaking and come out with something that is reasonable and makes sense!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Do I like the new Marko? This can't be right. I'd add my voice to it being an impostor

I loved the Jackie Stewart hit back.. Spot on!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:45 pm 
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I don't see any difference in his statements and I don't see any new Markos at all. Marko has been hated by so many in this forum for no reason what's so ever. But yet, they (the forum haters) can't ever prove the opposite of what he says.

He's very frank about how he states his opinions and that ruffles too many feathers a think. He's the type of guy that will tell you he doesn't like you and the exact reasons why.

I personally like him and his attitude towards a no BS standpoint.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Cozz wrote:
I don't see any difference in his statements and I don't see any new Markos at all. Marko has been hated by so many in this forum for no reason what's so ever. But yet, they (the forum haters) can't ever prove the opposite of what he says.

He's very frank about how he states his opinions and that ruffles too many feathers a think. He's the type of guy that will tell you he doesn't like you and the exact reasons why.

I personally like him and his attitude towards a no BS standpoint.

I'm not sure Marko has a no BS standpoint given that usually all he talks is BS. But this time around he's spot on, and I wholeheartedly agree with him!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:06 pm 
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I have to agree with most of what is written here. I'm not a fan of Vettel, mostly because of some perceived attitude/personality issues, including the finger, however I admire his ability and while I would love to see Webber do better I believe Vettel is winning fair and square. (With the caveat that I believe the car is built more with Vettel in mind and Webbers height and weight may be working against him and there is probably a preference for Vettel to win within thew team). Vettel is able to get on pole more easily and is much better at running from the front but he also seems to be able to get past a couple of cars in the first lap where Webber regularly gets stuck behind someone for ten laps. My main point though is that I believe if Webber thought he was being actively screwed, i.e. second rate parts and spanners in the works he would call the team on it as he has before. I also believe that if Webber is good enough to win he will be 'allowed' to but up till now he has not been consistent enough.
I think Marko is a bit of a tool but I do agree with most of his statements in this article, especially about winning in a particular car. This chestnut has been going on for years. Jack brabham won in Coopers, Jim Clark in Lotus, Jackie stewart, as pointed out above, in the Tyrell and the same question came up each time.
I think most of what Marko says is his opinion and most of what he says that denigrates Webber is not untrue. It is just unecessary. He should learn that to build up your boy does not mean you need to dump on someone else and maybe indicate the difference between his opinion and team policy but I have no arguement with the sentiments expressed in the article.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:07 pm 
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It is very true... Alonso (Hamilton too) spend a ton of time trying to play games with Vettel. After 3 years you would think they would chill out with it as it is not working


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/8385569/RBR-Advisor-Hits-Back-At-Vettel-Critics

I was expecting a car crash but... I actually agree with a lot of what he said. And said in a completely diplomatic manner.


Discuss

Yes a lot of it made sense and backs up some things i've read on forums in particular about Webber, Marko certainly calls a spade, a spade, he often gets criticised for being so outspoken but at least you know where you stand with him

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:25 pm 
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To be honest, I see Vettel exactly like Schumi in Ferrari days. Almost everyone hates him, but the difference is that Schumi had the Ferrari PR machine praising and making him look like a god, Redbull only has Marko


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:37 pm 
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F1nsider wrote:
To be honest, I see Vettel exactly like Schumi in Ferrari days. Almost everyone hates him, but the difference is that Schumi had the Ferrari PR machine praising and making him look like a god, Redbull only has Marko


The difference I find is that I don't think half of the bile or apprehension towards a Vetter 'era' would be occuring if it wasn't for Herr Schumi's dominance before.
As I've said before, I think Vettel's done a lot over the past season to prove his worth. It was Marko's "Webber's great really, if only he could be more consistant" speech that seemed different from his usual attitude.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:41 pm 
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nike2die4 wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
shocker at the F1 champ being criticized...seriously,everyone is not gonna blow smoke up Vettel's behind,just like every champ long before Vettel was born,there are people who like you and there are people who criticize you,Red Bull seem like they just don't want anyone criticizing them.
ohh and i don't remember Alonso saying he is competing against Hamilton and not Vettel,i remember him saying that Hamilton will be up there by twds the end of the season but don't recall him saying Vettel won't.


I don't remember saying Hamilton but not Vettel exactly, but the fact that he regarded only Hamilton and dismissed/neglected Vettel completely kind of makes that point.

Maybe not a deliberate snide comment from Alonso, maybe he genuinely meant Hamilton, but then again maybe it was. Who knows?

i like to give people benefit of doubt...maybe he really rates Hamilton that highly,and if he does then why does it bother people? it's his opinion after all and opinions don't always mean it's a fact.


True. In fairness if it is about the comments he made in September, it was about the time Vettel was almost 40 points back, in 4th place. Maybe he didn't consider him a threat back then. Which was a foolish mistake.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Spot on by Marko and not for the first time. Somehow as time passes, the more I like the way Marko says it all straight.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Not any different than "old" Marko...there's always a hard truth in what he says.

I was expecting to see feathers ruffled about his "phenomenon" comment. I think its YOU guys that are becoming more reasonable, not Dr. Marko ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:51 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Not any different than "old" Marko...there's always a hard truth in what he says.

I was expecting to see feathers ruffled about his "phenomenon" comment. I think its YOU guys that are becoming more reasonable, not Dr. Marko ;)

Indeed - as Erasmus said: "In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king".


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:05 pm 
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Quote:
"Then the comment of the great Jackie Stewart that Vettel must go to another team to prove himself. This is said by someone who scored all his greatest successes in just one team, Tyrrell.


This is such crap by Marko, Sir Jackie won for 3 different teams and and championships for two (Tyrell and Matra)..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:17 pm 
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pyratheon141 wrote:
Quote:
"Then the comment of the great Jackie Stewart that Vettel must go to another team to prove himself. This is said by someone who scored all his greatest successes in just one team, Tyrrell.


This is such crap by Marko, Sir Jackie won for 3 different teams and and championships for two (Tyrell and Matra)..


Matra International and Tyrell were effectively one and the same.

Interestingly enough Seb and Jackie got their first wins in Monza.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
pyratheon141 wrote:
Quote:
"Then the comment of the great Jackie Stewart that Vettel must go to another team to prove himself. This is said by someone who scored all his greatest successes in just one team, Tyrrell.


This is such crap by Marko, Sir Jackie won for 3 different teams and and championships for two (Tyrell and Matra)..


Matra International and Tyrell were effectively one and the same.

Interestingly enough Seb and Jackie got their first wins in Monza.

i agree with Marko on this one, amongst many other things he said in this brief... but importantly, the Scottish lady (courtesy topgear) should stop singing alright.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:58 pm 
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Interesting comments and replies.

Here's my view-

1) I think Marko is a bit of a dreamer if he thinks MW can't handle the hot kettle. F1 is a highly demanding and competitive sport and a lot of it is down to the driver adapting to the machinery. It has nothing to do with pressure. Sitting on an armchair and passing comments is highly easy. There's no doubt that SV has been better than MW. He totally walloped him in 2011, but I don't think the same can be said about 2010 or 2012. SV excels in making sure his bad days aren't as bad as MW's. Starts and KERS have been an issue for MW and I think it's a bit down to some bad luck. SV is the better driver but if someone is suggesting that MW can't handle the "pressure" after so many years in such a ruthless sport having only received an opprtunity at the big prize so late in his career then they understand little about life. It isn't just always about sport and winning. MW doesn't need to drive for a living any more and he fought the WDC in 2010 with an injury. There's more to life.

2) JS really? Where was he when he was @ 25? Not a triple champion I don't think. I'm with HM on this.

3) I've always said that FA's performance in 2012 was outstanding but blown way out of proportion. Team orders were always there in F1, but, Ferarri and FA stooped to an absolute whole new low in 2012. Cheap and dirty.

4) Where SV excels? He doesn't give a toss if people or FA or LH think he's good. They say the WDC is the world's best driver and he's been just that for 3 years without losing his personality. They say he emotes too much? Well, if he's quiet then people would call him a robot like KR. Like SV says.. "It's impossible to please everyone."

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Quote:
2) JS really? Where was he when he was @ 25? Not a triple champion I don't think. I'm with HM on this.


You can't really use the age argument . As far as thats concerned it's a different world. In JS day someone Sebs age would hardly get the chance to touch an F1 car nevermind race one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Vettel is the Marko meal ticket, he justifies his position so he'll twist everything in his way so he can pick up his fat pay-cheque from Dieter the liquid caffeine salesman. I can't believe some would actually fall for the biased nonsense he spouts, he was even accusing the FIA of race-fixing and a conspiracy against RB and Vettel mid-season when things weren't going his way.

I'm not sure why he uses Brazil as an example of Vettel's ability to pass either, almost everyone let him through! And yes Webber struggles with technical problems when the title looks on, Domenicali has already raised the question.

Bottom line, people see Vettel is a good (not great) driver but they recognise Red Bull provide a great car and a great team which secures the wins and nothing Marko spouts is going to change that perception.

Red Bull had the opportunity to sign one of the two best drivers on the paddock in Lewis Hamilton, Marko's response:

Quote:
"It doesn't matter if you're the fastest driver or not if it doesn't fit with the team."

I don't care if you're the best, don't touch my meal-ticket...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:08 am 
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Marko would be there with or without SV.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:15 am 
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Funny how Marko seems to only be able to pay SV compliments while simultaneously denigrating (whether accurate or not) his team mate and main opposition.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:31 am 
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BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Funny how Marko seems to only be able to pay SV compliments while simultaneously denigrating (whether accurate or not) his team mate and main opposition.

To be fair most team bosses have done the same over the course of the 2012 season in some form.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:49 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Vettel is the Marko meal ticket, he justifies his position so he'll twist everything in his way so he can pick up his fat pay-cheque from Dieter the liquid caffeine salesman. I can't believe some would actually fall for the biased nonsense he spouts, he was even accusing the FIA of race-fixing and a conspiracy against RB and Vettel mid-season when things weren't going his way.

I'm not sure why he uses Brazil as an example of Vettel's ability to pass either, almost everyone let him through! And yes Webber struggles with technical problems when the title looks on, Domenicali has already raised the question.

Bottom line, people see Vettel is a good (not great) driver but they recognise Red Bull provide a great car and a great team which secures the wins and nothing Marko spouts is going to change that perception.

Red Bull had the opportunity to sign one of the two best drivers on the paddock in Lewis Hamilton, Marko's response:

Quote:
"It doesn't matter if you're the fastest driver or not if it doesn't fit with the team."

I don't care if you're the best, don't touch my meal-ticket...

Good point at the end

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:26 am 
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F1nsider wrote:
To be honest, I see Vettel exactly like Schumi in Ferrari days. Almost everyone hates him, but the difference is that Schumi had the Ferrari PR machine praising and making him look like a god, Redbull only has Marko



I don't think that at all....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:48 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Funny how Marko seems to only be able to pay SV compliments while simultaneously denigrating (whether accurate or not) his team mate and main opposition.

To be fair most team bosses have done the same over the course of the 2012 season in some form.

That is true. Doesn't make it any more palatable but true.

Has Marko criticized SV. Ever?

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Last edited by BRAIN OF IRELAND on Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:57 am 
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BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Funny how Marko seems to only be able to pay SV compliments while simultaneously denigrating (whether accurate or not) his team mate and main opposition.

To be fair most team bosses have done the same over the course of the 2012 season in some form.

That is true. Doesn't make it any more palatable but true.

Has Marko ever been reported as criticizing SV?

No but has SD ever publicly criticised Alonso? Not that I can remember.

Given Marko isn't even the TP of Red Bull, he's just an advisor. He's been there since 1999. Vettel singed for the Red Bull junior team in 1998 so he and Marko go back 13 years. Vettel would likely have been Marko's first real Red Bull protege to guide and it's his job to big the guy up and tout him as the biggest talent around, I guess old habits die hard.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:07 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
Funny how Marko seems to only be able to pay SV compliments while simultaneously denigrating (whether accurate or not) his team mate and main opposition.

To be fair most team bosses have done the same over the course of the 2012 season in some form.

That is true. Doesn't make it any more palatable but true.

Has Marko ever been reported as criticizing SV?

No but has SD ever publicly criticised Alonso? Not that I can remember.

Given Marko isn't even the TP of Red Bull, he's just an advisor. He's been there since 1999. Vettel singed for the Red Bull junior team in 1998 so he and Marko go back 13 years. Vettel would likely have been Marko's first real Red Bull protege to guide and it's his job to big the guy up and tout him as the biggest talent around, I guess old habits die hard.

Indeed. However after 3 consecutive WDC's one wonders why Marko still feels the need to 'tout' or even 'defend' SV.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:35 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Vettel is the Marko meal ticket, he justifies his position so he'll twist everything in his way so he can pick up his fat pay-cheque from Dieter the liquid caffeine salesman. I can't believe some would actually fall for the biased nonsense he spouts, he was even accusing the FIA of race-fixing and a conspiracy against RB and Vettel mid-season when things weren't going his way.


The question is...how did he get Luca to fall for it? Or do you figure he is lying and is actually hoping to get Hamilton over at Ferrari after Alonso?

Quote:
I'm not sure why he uses Brazil as an example of Vettel's ability to pass either, almost everyone let him through! And yes Webber struggles with technical problems when the title looks on, Domenicali has already raised the question.


And Luca provided the answer - what did he say? Oh yeah - Seb is not presumptuous, he wants to win but he is not arrogant - and let's see, he was told that Vettel had the most potential of any young driver - and his conclusion? The person who told him that was right.

So I guess you could be right also, Vettel can't pass, needs a good car to not be average - yadayada - but if you are, apparently those traits in a driver are not very important. At least not to Ferrari (or Red Bull or Mercedes or Macca for that matter).

Quote:
Bottom line, people see Vettel is a good (not great) driver but they recognise Red Bull provide a great car and a great team which secures the wins and nothing Marko spouts is going to change that perception.


So Ferrari wants good, but not great drivers? Is that how you describe MSC, ALO, RAI, PRO and on back to GV?

Quote:
Red Bull had the opportunity to sign one of the two best drivers on the paddock in Lewis Hamilton, Marko's response:

Quote:
"It doesn't matter if you're the fastest driver or not if it doesn't fit with the team."

I don't care if you're the best, don't touch my meal-ticket...


Horner's response: two drivers of that calibur would be difficult. It makes sense no matter what the reason. If something isn't broke, why fix it? They are double world champs, 3 years running, without Lewis. Why change anything?


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