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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:20 am 
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So recently I drove in a outdoor go-kart, I was surprised when the kart vibrated a lot and made my body vibrate roughly because I was so use to indoor karting that I've forgotten how hard to drive in an outdoor go-kart. So my question is, how hard is the vibration in an F1 car? Does it feel a lot more comfortable than sitting down on a normal or less comfortable?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:59 am 
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I assume it would depend on the car and its set up. E.g mclaren are renowned for running a stiffer suspension and this can be seen on the tv occasionally. Also when a driver locks up and flat spots the tyre the vibration looks horrendous. Other cars look like they absorb the bumps and are smooth but will still have a degree of vibration.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:42 pm 
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I don't think there is a noticeable difference in vibration level from one car to the other; today's F1 cars are incredibly stiff and any imperfection on the track or from the tyres will result in important vibrations. Maybe the camera mount of the McLaren flexes more so the vibration looks worst from the inboard, I don't know. But I seriously don't think the cars are setup that differently.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Baring in mind how rigidly the drivers are strapped into the car, it must be extremely violent.

The vibrations from a Formula Ford/Palmer Audi type car I drove around Donnington Park a year or so ago were vicious enough, at high speed the turbulence around the crash helmet was also quite surprising. It felt as if the air was trying to left my head away from my shoulders.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Don't forget that modern car cams probably have image stabilization that damp out the vibrations. Older in-car cameras show tremendous vibration.

http://youtu.be/L92bIbbmB9k
http://youtu.be/NeFqsWWG1qE

There is absolutely nothing built into the car to protect the driver from noise, vibration, and harshness. They are strapped in tight and feel every bump. They take a tremendous beating.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:33 pm 
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In a kart, the surface you're running on has a big influence on the vibration you feel. especially when comparing it to a smooth indoor track. When you sit in a formula car with a big engine a few inches behind your back, attached to a gearbox which is part of the structure of the car, you bet its violent. The constant shifting of weight distracts your body from it though. In a straight line at full song its even worse, but then you have turbulent air flying around you so you feel that too and it takes away from the vibration sensation.

The worst part of the vibration for me, in a car where its really noticeable, is that my muscles instinctively brace against it...so when you hop out after awhile your whole body just feels fatigued. Vibration in my own car was only really bad when I used certain tires, but I've driven some Porsches that felt like old street car econo boxes with bad engine mounts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:06 am 
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Actually guys, the F1 car is so superbly set up that short of harsh low frequency type bumps, IE. curbs, they are pretty smooth.
Motors have to be balanced to superbly tight tolerances to be able to run 18 even 20 thousand revs.
The driver feels no wind buffeting because that equals drag and drag is a major drag when it comes to CFD and wind tunnel development of these cars.
If any driver had to endure severe and constant vibration, they would never win over the course of a race at those speeds.
G force plays a much bigger role in driver fatigue than vibration.
The driver has to deal with steering issues depending on balance and over or understeer issues but, vibration? not hardly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:07 am 
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nowhereman wrote:
Actually guys, the F1 car is so superbly set up that short of harsh low frequency type bumps, IE. curbs, they are pretty smooth.
Motors have to be balanced to superbly tight tolerances to be able to run 18 even 20 thousand revs.
The driver feels no wind buffeting because that equals drag and drag is a major drag when it comes to CFD and wind tunnel development of these cars.
If any driver had to endure severe and constant vibration, they would never win over the course of a race at those speeds.
G force plays a much bigger role in driver fatigue than vibration.
The driver has to deal with steering issues depending on balance and over or understeer issues but, vibration? not hardly.


No wind? I suggest you watch and listen to this video carefully. In fact, any time the driver (di Grassi) turns his head just slightly, the wind noise picks up and changes because the shape of the helmet/visor is presenting itself differently to the wind.
http://youtu.be/jBbPGQ3Bpug

Agreed, all reciprocating components are balanced to the nth degree, but that serves to only minimize the vibration, not eliminate it. Even with the current 90 degree V-8, you cannot completely cancel out the primary balance and secondary balance vibrations. Think about it, the piston travels up and down, that movement can be cancelled out by counterweights on the crankshaft, but that rod end on the crankshaft is also going side to side too. That isn't cancelled out.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:44 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
nowhereman wrote:
Actually guys, the F1 car is so superbly set up that short of harsh low frequency type bumps, IE. curbs, they are pretty smooth.
Motors have to be balanced to superbly tight tolerances to be able to run 18 even 20 thousand revs.
The driver feels no wind buffeting because that equals drag and drag is a major drag when it comes to CFD and wind tunnel development of these cars.
If any driver had to endure severe and constant vibration, they would never win over the course of a race at those speeds.
G force plays a much bigger role in driver fatigue than vibration.
The driver has to deal with steering issues depending on balance and over or understeer issues but, vibration? not hardly.


No wind? I suggest you watch and listen to this video carefully. In fact, any time the driver (di Grassi) turns his head just slightly, the wind noise picks up and changes because the shape of the helmet/visor is presenting itself differently to the wind.
http://youtu.be/jBbPGQ3Bpug

Agreed, all reciprocating components are balanced to the nth degree, but that serves to only minimize the vibration, not eliminate it. Even with the current 90 degree V-8, you cannot completely cancel out the primary balance and secondary balance vibrations. Think about it, the piston travels up and down, that movement can be cancelled out by counterweights on the crankshaft, but that rod end on the crankshaft is also going side to side too. That isn't cancelled out.
Image

You only really notice the wind noise in an open wheeler is when you turn your head, when your head is front on you can barely hear it as your head is part of the aerodynamics so the air just skims over the top of your helmet. I remember the first time I drove a Formula Ford, the side mirrors where broken so I had to turn my head to see along side me, and whenever I did so the sound and force of the wind was incredible but as soon as I turned my head front on again it was gone.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:08 am 
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I remember hearing back in 1996 that Damon Hill would shrink over an inch in height due to the impact from bumps compressing his spin, this would then ease off over the closed season back to normal

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:48 am 
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You can get some idea of the vibrations from this clip of Lucas di Grassi in the Pirelli test car, shot using an over one eye camera (which avoids most of the nausea-inducing "floatiness" of the FOM helmetcams). There is some pretty severe vibration through the suspension under braking on the straights. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAqmeO_Ho0I


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Kolby wrote:
So recently I drove in a outdoor go-kart, I was surprised when the kart vibrated a lot and made my body vibrate roughly because I was so use to indoor karting that I've forgotten how hard to drive in an outdoor go-kart. So my question is, how hard is the vibration in an F1 car? Does it feel a lot more comfortable than sitting down on a normal or less comfortable?

Ever seen those bad on board helmet cameras - hows that for vibration, remember these guys run 15 miles like its a trip to the chippy for us.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:04 pm 
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Speaking from first hand experience I can say a Kart is the most brutal on-track vehicle. there is absolutely no suspension of any kind and all of the energy the chassis experiences is directly transferred to the driver 100%. Having also raced bikes on circuits, they are superbly smooth in comparison and I am able to see perfectly fine through my glasses while on a bike without ever feeling like I need to slow down because it feels like I'm on the brink of being out of control. On a Kart, it is sheer violence in my helmet and I had to learn to adapt my vision so I would focus on the very center of my lenses while maintaining a focal points for every corner I need to drive too and through. Haven't been in a top series open wheeler on-track but I have sat in ChampCars and the suspension while stiff, it certainly has some cushion and give and the on-board shots in both ChampCars and F1 cars show how much more civil it is in comparison.

In regards to the older footage from back in the day, you have to keep in mind that the camera and mounting gear was as insanely thin and fragile as the cars themselves and all of that contributed to making it appear perhaps a bit more violent than it actually was. Having said that, the cars today protect and hold the driver in sooooooo much better, with so much more support the drivers don't feel the reverberations nearly as much as they used to all the way up to the early 90's.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:45 am 
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Last time I drove a go-kart, I got good vibrations. I'd assume that from F1 car you'd get awesome vibrations.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:35 pm 
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I remember how Danica Patrick was invited to drive a few laps in an F1 car once, and afterwards she spoke about the awesome level of vibrations. She drives race cars for a living, but apparently F1 cars are something else entirely when it comes to that.


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