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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:04 pm 
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http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/sto ... CMP=chrome

Video interview with Lord Drayson at the Autosport show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toBves0BenA

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Drayson Racing has become the first team to sign up for the inaugural Formula E championship in 2014.

The FIA's new electric championship will see cars racing in city centres, with Rio de Janeiro and Rome already confirmed as host cities. The series promoter - Formula E Holdings - has now agreed for the Drayson Racing Formula E Team to be proposed to the FIA as the first of ten teams to take part in the opening season.


I'm actually really looking forward to Formula E. I was very, VERY skeptical at first but I think it could be a nice 'alternative' motorsport. It'll be interesting to see if they get it off the ground. Finding 10 teams will be bloody hard to do, and from the sounds of it, most will end up running the McLaren/Spark 'stock car' for the first year at the very least.

Also before this thread gets going, Formula E cars arent silent - people still seem to think that Electric = no sound at all. They instead have a high pitched whine. They still get wheelspin and generally still act like a 'normal' car.
Videos here:
Onboard with a Formula E car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDZ4VSFC6z0
Formula E Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDmagYyotNU

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Will they be using cyclone technology ?





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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Honestly, closing my eyes and just listening to it, I swear I'm hearing my R/C car from when I was 10.

Maybe the racing could be good, but that sound is dreadful. It simply kills it for me. I think I'd rather have them be silent instead of this.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:10 pm 
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I'll watch if it is on TV. I'll give it a try anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I'll give it a watch. Single seaters razzing around city centres? I'm all for it. Hope the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari, Kobayashi end up there if they don't get back into F1, Kovalainen too.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:34 pm 
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jammin78 wrote:
I'll give it a watch. Single seaters razzing around city centres? I'm all for it. Hope the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari, Kobayashi end up there if they don't get back into F1, Kovalainen too.


Could turn into an unofficial ex-F1 drivers championship - that would probably actually make it pretty popular!

By 2014 you could have:

- Webber (I hope I'm wrong, but just dont see him lasting past this year)
- Heikki
- Trulli
- Buemi
- Alguersuari
- Kobayashi
- Barichello
- Heidfeld
- Chandhok
- Karthikeyan
- Liuzzi

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:35 pm 
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mds wrote:
Honestly, closing my eyes and just listening to it, I swear I'm hearing my R/C car from when I was 10.

Maybe the racing could be good, but that sound is dreadful. It simply kills it for me. I think I'd rather have them be silent instead of this.


I know what you mean, if it helps, from what I've read that on-board sounds is a fair bit higher pitched than the sound from outside the car. It's something to do with the way the camera and mic were mounted.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Drayson being there was really a given. While I like their work in the EV field, I'm also hoping for someone like Trident or Durango to make an appearance. A proper racing outfit working together with a team of EV experts would be the ideal combo in my mind.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:49 pm 
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That onboard video made my ears start ringing.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:01 am 
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The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:01 am 
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swillis wrote:
The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


So having an honest opinion about why you possibly won't like the series = "bitching and whining"?

If you can't respect the opinion of others and/or don't wish discussions about aspects of the current thread, you shouldn't be on a forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:09 am 
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RickM wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
I'll give it a watch. Single seaters razzing around city centres? I'm all for it. Hope the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari, Kobayashi end up there if they don't get back into F1, Kovalainen too.


Could turn into an unofficial ex-F1 drivers championship - that would probably actually make it pretty popular!

By 2014 you could have:

- Webber (I hope I'm wrong, but just dont see him lasting past this year)
- Heikki
- Trulli
- Buemi
- Alguersuari
- Kobayashi
- Barichello
- Heidfeld
- Chandhok
- Karthikeyan
- Liuzzi


I'd also like Hakkinen, Schumacher, Fisico, etc. It could be great.


Just record and play this while racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBXUOomynxw

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:40 am 
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If McLaren are having an input into the 1st gen E-racers, would it be possible for them to enter themselves? I always like seeing manufactures/race teams competing across different categories, and even though i dislike Ferrari as a team, I always think it's a shame they pulled out of so many series.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:41 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
RickM wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
I'll give it a watch. Single seaters razzing around city centres? I'm all for it. Hope the likes of Buemi, Alguersuari, Kobayashi end up there if they don't get back into F1, Kovalainen too.


Could turn into an unofficial ex-F1 drivers championship - that would probably actually make it pretty popular!

By 2014 you could have:

- Webber (I hope I'm wrong, but just dont see him lasting past this year)
- Heikki
- Trulli
- Buemi
- Alguersuari
- Kobayashi
- Barichello
- Heidfeld
- Chandhok
- Karthikeyan
- Liuzzi


I'd also like Hakkinen, Schumacher, Fisico, etc. It could be great.


Just record and play this while racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBXUOomynxw



Haha. They should stick speakers all over the car (hidden of course) and just play engine sounds through it to make it sound 'real' :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:53 am 
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RickM wrote:
Haha. They should stick speakers all over the car (hidden of course) and just play engine sounds through it to make it sound 'real' :lol:


Not too far-fetched when BMW is putting "Active Sound" in the M5... Although that is only for the interior, not exterior :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:58 am 
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mds wrote:
RickM wrote:
Haha. They should stick speakers all over the car (hidden of course) and just play engine sounds through it to make it sound 'real' :lol:


Not too far-fetched when BMW is putting "Active Sound" in the M5... Although that is only for the interior, not exterior :)


True. I remember a couple of years back reading about a Jaguar (if I'm not mistaken) project that would have a recording of their V8 or V10 to play along with the electric motor while driving.

I don't remember if it was for the interior only

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:51 am 
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If these new engines sound with a high pitch and rev up quickly then it wouldn't be that bad.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:58 am 
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I don’t quite understand how the sound of these cars can put people off. After all it’s the sound of performance, the end product of technical innovation. I’m sure F1 cars could sound better but who would like it knowing it’s artificial and/or achieved at the expense of actual performance?
I’m really looking forward to this series.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:38 am 
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Didn't the FIA tender document talk about sound being a major selection criteria, even going as far as to recommend using acoustics to increase noise? I thought I saw that reported by someone like Joe Saward but I can't find the piece right now. Did I dream it up?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:49 am 
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mds wrote:
swillis wrote:
The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


So having an honest opinion about why you possibly won't like the series = "bitching and whining"?

If you can't respect the opinion of others and/or don't wish discussions about aspects of the current thread, you shouldn't be on a forum.

This thread isn't about the noise the cars make or reasons why people will or will not like this series, its about a team entering into the Formula E championship. It's impossible to find a thread about Formula E without people "bitching and whining" about the noise these cars make, so swillis actually does have a point.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:58 am 
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specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
swillis wrote:
The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


So having an honest opinion about why you possibly won't like the series = "bitching and whining"?

If you can't respect the opinion of others and/or don't wish discussions about aspects of the current thread, you shouldn't be on a forum.

This thread isn't about the noise the cars make or reasons why people will or will not like this series, its about a team entering into the Formula E championship. It's impossible to find a thread about Formula E without people "bitching and whining" about the noise these cars make, so swillis actually does have a point.


The sound issue was referred to in the opening post though, so why is discussing it wrong?

But apart from that, people can have an opinion about something without being attacked and branded, that's all what mds is saying.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:04 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
swillis wrote:
The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


So having an honest opinion about why you possibly won't like the series = "bitching and whining"?

If you can't respect the opinion of others and/or don't wish discussions about aspects of the current thread, you shouldn't be on a forum.

This thread isn't about the noise the cars make or reasons why people will or will not like this series, its about a team entering into the Formula E championship. It's impossible to find a thread about Formula E without people "bitching and whining" about the noise these cars make, so swillis actually does have a point.


The sound issue was referred to in the opening post though, so why is discussing it wrong?

But apart from that, people can have an opinion about something without being attacked and branded, that's all what mds is saying.



I made a point of noting it as I knew this would happen - it always does when Formula E comes up.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:13 pm 
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I know RickM, I know. I just couldn't resist, you even put it in bold!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:29 pm 
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specdecible wrote:
mds wrote:
swillis wrote:
The bitching and whining about the sound in this thread sounds a fairy cakes load worse then the cars ever could ...


So having an honest opinion about why you possibly won't like the series = "bitching and whining"?

If you can't respect the opinion of others and/or don't wish discussions about aspects of the current thread, you shouldn't be on a forum.

This thread isn't about the noise the cars make or reasons why people will or will not like this series, its about a team entering into the Formula E championship.


I don't agree. If you read RickM's initial post, the news bulletin about the first team signing up is clearly used as a starting point to generate some discussion about the series itself. More than half of the post is reserved about how he feels about the series itself including a piece about the sound.

I do think I presented my honest opinion, which is quite standard for an internet forum. I don't think I was being unfair/bitching/whining. There are differences.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm 
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It looked quite fast but sounded horrible, but i guess that might be the future?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:52 pm 
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The noise it makes sounds like a smurf dying..
Anyhoo I shall look forward to the first race and hope this will help use and development of alternative technologies : ). F1 forever though ; )


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Maky wrote:
The noise it makes sounds like a smurf dying..



I thought it sounded a bit like Mr Blobby :P

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:55 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
But apart from that, people can have an opinion about something without being attacked and branded, that's all what mds is saying.
If you don't want others to opine about you, don't opine about anything ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:02 pm 
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chican wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
But apart from that, people can have an opinion about something without being attacked and branded, that's all what mds is saying.
If you don't want others to opine about you, don't opine about anything ;)


Of course I don't want anyone in here to opine about me. They can opine about what I say, not about me. There is a difference.

It's also quite different to say "I disagree with these people" and to say "these people are bitching and moaning". One is stating your opinion, the other is near provoking.

We've derailed this enough now, I don't want to see the thread closed

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:41 pm 
It won't be closed, but please stop discussing each other and get back on topic.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Is it just me or from the In car do they look like the old Indy cars?


Actually had a thought. It's a shame they don't sort out the Aero rules in F1 better rather than the last minute changes of heart.

They could have used FE to test the new aero rules to see their impact.

I bet we would then get a series with a few Friday and test drivers and teams backed by the F1 guys.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Is it just me or from the In car do they look like the old Indy cars?


Actually had a thought. It's a shame they don't sort out the Aero rules in F1 better rather than the last minute changes of heart.

They could have used FE to test the new aero rules to see their impact.

I bet we would then get a series with a few Friday and test drivers and teams backed by the F1 guys.


Yeah they do look like them a bit. From the outside they look almost like a 90's lower-formula style car. I'd imagine that what we can see with it so far is just the basis for something more advanced. The aero seems very simple right now.

Interestingly the car they demoed is not the one they plan to use for the races, The EF02 is the next one and from the sounds of it will be used in 2014. I'm assuming its only however going to be used for development purposes, as if I'm not mistaken the only customer car announced so far is the one by McLaren and Spark built one.

EF02 info: http://www.formulec.org/formulec_cp_francfort_en.pdf

McLaren will sure be pretty involved in Formula E with them providing the motors for all cars. Wouldn't be at all surprised if they had a team of their own (assuming thats allowed).

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:22 pm 
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I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:49 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


Yeah it could be a pretty good way of getting more tallent into training programs with big F1 teams.

It may also be cheaper for the likes of Marussia and Caterham to drop out of F1 completely and move to the likes of Formula E. That way we'd get the 10 team F1 rule kick in and get 3 cars per team :p

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:59 pm 
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RickM wrote:
potter84 wrote:
I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


Yeah it could be a pretty good way of getting more tallent into training programs with big F1 teams.

It may also be cheaper for the likes of Marussia and Caterham to drop out of F1 completely and move to the likes of Formula E. That way we'd get the 10 team F1 rule kick in and get 3 cars per team :p

9 team rule :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
RickM wrote:
potter84 wrote:
I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


Yeah it could be a pretty good way of getting more tallent into training programs with big F1 teams.

It may also be cheaper for the likes of Marussia and Caterham to drop out of F1 completely and move to the likes of Formula E. That way we'd get the 10 team F1 rule kick in and get 3 cars per team :p

9 team rule :)


Sorry, my bad - typo :p

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:10 pm 
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RickM wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RickM wrote:
potter84 wrote:
I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


Yeah it could be a pretty good way of getting more tallent into training programs with big F1 teams.

It may also be cheaper for the likes of Marussia and Caterham to drop out of F1 completely and move to the likes of Formula E. That way we'd get the 10 team F1 rule kick in and get 3 cars per team :p

9 team rule :)


Sorry, my bad - typo :p

plus the technical specs are pretty open at the moment formula E so it F1 teams could make good use of areo testing in the series as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:06 pm 
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minchy wrote:
RickM wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RickM wrote:
potter84 wrote:
I would love to see some f1 teams get involved McLaren said they might, they can use it as a testing ground for academy drivers honing racecraft in a competitive environment more time developing than just chucking them in.


Yeah it could be a pretty good way of getting more tallent into training programs with big F1 teams.

It may also be cheaper for the likes of Marussia and Caterham to drop out of F1 completely and move to the likes of Formula E. That way we'd get the 10 team F1 rule kick in and get 3 cars per team :p

9 team rule :)


Sorry, my bad - typo :p

plus the technical specs are pretty open at the moment formula E so it F1 teams could make good use of areo testing in the series as well.


Isn't that doubtful?
I don't know that much about aerodynamics, but given the massive power and speed differential between F1 and FE, would F1 teams really benefit from the solutions they come up with in FE?
Reversing that question, can a car with roughly half the power and a top speed of (not too much higher than) 200km/h benefit from the kind of aero you see on F1 cars?

Also, I don't think they will position it as a feeder series to F1. FR3.5 and GP2 are far better positioned for this (driving experience is closer to that of F1). It could be an alternative to the GP3/Formula 3000/FR2.0 but that's pretty far removed from F1 and I imagine the FIA will want Formula E to have far more visibility.
Next to that, I can't see too many ex-F1 drivers entering. I think most of them, and especially the top drivers, it will feel too much like a step back and so they will either retire or move on to some kind of GT/Endurance/... racing and not a single seater of this kind.

Conclusion, it makes more sense (for me at least) to have it as an alternative formula to display the technology and, maybe, let the technology mature for use in F1 one day. And I fear we won't be seeing the very best drivers in it. Not promising youths, as they will remain in the feeder series we know now, and not the retired top F1 drivers.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:47 pm 
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mds wrote:
Isn't that doubtful?
I don't know that much about aerodynamics, but given the massive power and speed differential between F1 and FE, would F1 teams really benefit from the solutions they come up with in FE?
Reversing that question, can a car with roughly half the power and a top speed of (not too much higher than) 200km/h benefit from the kind of aero you see on F1 cars?

Also, I don't think they will position it as a feeder series to F1. FR3.5 and GP2 are far better positioned for this (driving experience is closer to that of F1). It could be an alternative to the GP3/Formula 3000/FR2.0 but that's pretty far removed from F1 and I imagine the FIA will want Formula E to have far more visibility.
Next to that, I can't see too many ex-F1 drivers entering. I think most of them, and especially the top drivers, it will feel too much like a step back and so they will either retire or move on to some kind of GT/Endurance/... racing and not a single seater of this kind.

Conclusion, it makes more sense (for me at least) to have it as an alternative formula to display the technology and, maybe, let the technology mature for use in F1 one day. And I fear we won't be seeing the very best drivers in it. Not promising youths, as they will remain in the feeder series we know now, and not the retired top F1 drivers.

At first it will definitely not be a feeder series, but depending on how much they're paying and how close of ties teams have to F1 teams I could see drivers who have a year or two in F1 then lose their seats going there.

Think of KK, Jaime, Karun, etc. being able to keep themselves in the eye-line of F1 teams when they can't run in the lower series anymore.

(I apologise if the quoting is off on this due to having too many levels of quote to delete)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:03 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
At first it will definitely not be a feeder series, but depending on how much they're paying and how close of ties teams have to F1 teams I could see drivers who have a year or two in F1 then lose their seats going there.

Think of KK, Jaime, Karun, etc. being able to keep themselves in the eye-line of F1 teams when they can't run in the lower series anymore.


That's pretty much what I'm saying.
I argumented the thought of FE being a feeder series is not very likely because they're not fast enough to be a direct feeder series for F1 and they won't have enough visibility acting as a lower feeder series. This was just in response to others who thought it could be a feeder series.

The only thing I'm not really agreeing is "keep themselves in the eye-line of F1 teams" - I think once an F1 driver would go to FE, it will be end of F1 career effective immediately. But that's just how I feel about it.


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