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Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine
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Author:  apexpredator [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Many journalists are saying that it sounds much better than many were dreading. They simulated a lap of Monza on the dyno. Does anyone know if any recordings of it have found their way onto the web yet? Or maybe they stopped people from using mobile phones to record the sound.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105080

Author:  Adaemus [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Quote:
"There will be a new quality to the racing too. It will edge towards a thinking drivers' formula to get the most from the car and the available fuel energy.

"The engines will also deliver much more torque - especially on the exit of the corners. Cars with more power than grip coming out of the corners - that is something that we all enjoy.


Not sure if they're trying to convince the fans or themselves...but I'm not one of the doom-mongers of the V6 era. We've lost V12s, V10s and now V8s...as long as we don't end up with lawnmower engines and don't lose the speed we'll be fine.

The V8s already sound rubbish compared to the old engines, so we're not losing much in that respect. If you still need earplugs to sit on the International Pit Straight then I'll be happy enough.

Author:  amirb [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Well the way they are talking about it has got me excited, but I think that may be down to a change rather than the engines. It's going to be interesting if the engine changes will make a difference and who can benefit or not, from it.

Wonder how long its going to take others to reveal their engines now.

Author:  mcdo [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I might need a bit of clarification here.

Will ERS still be operated by the driver? Or will it be passive energy?

33 secs of a driver-operated boost should really open up the strategic element of using it. The way I always hoped KERS would be from the beginning.

Author:  Johnston [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Adaemus wrote:

Not sure if they're trying to convince the fans or themselves...but I'm not one of the doom-mongers of the V6 era. We've lost V12s, V10s and now V8s...as long as we don't end up with lawnmower engines and don't lose the speed we'll be fine.

The V8s already sound rubbish compared to the old engines, so we're not losing much in that respect. If you still need earplugs to sit on the International Pit Straight then I'll be happy enough.



I was wondering if it's to convince those that bought into Ferraris and Bernies These are a bit fairy cakes style comments.

I'm sure Merc wouldn't want more prospective rule changes being put off again.

Author:  dabi [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I must say though that is a gorgeous looking engine! Im sure it wont be all that bad.. Like its been said, as long as the thrill of the speed and the sound of the engines remains somewhat similar it wont bother me to much.

Author:  hd23 [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.

Author:  SilverstoneRegular [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.


People in the 70's and 80's didn't feel entitled to have absolutely everything their own way like they do now!

Author:  Adaemus [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

SilverstoneRegular wrote:
hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.


People in the 70's and 80's didn't feel entitled to have absolutely everything their own way like they do now!


:lol: :thumbup:

Author:  JohnnyGuitar [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I don't like the sound of the current engines. Not worried in the slightest about how the new ones will sound - in fact I expect them to be an improvement.

Author:  the incubus [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.

But the thing was that in those days Turbo technology was at an evolutionary point and people really began to explore all the intricacies of a turbo system and being that it was F1, the squeezed the living daylights out of them to create monstrously overpowered 4-bangers. Then that was getting too powerful, too dangerous and as we all know highly unreliable and so the decision was made to go to natural aspiration. The V10's sounded incredible and most 12's even better, with that high pitched tone you could hear as the cars were coming around a distant corners, decibel levels increasing as the tone morphed into the loudest high-pitched scream as it blew past, taking with it anything that wasn't part of the track to the point, some of us blew loads in our shorts! LOL

The V8's of today sound really damn good but for those of us who have a better point of reference, knowing how the 10's and 12's sounded, they just lack that little sumthin'.

These new engines might add some excitement, but there's no substitute for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nVspbf4vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSo0zVnYR_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfmUPvhGGM

Author:  FringeUK [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

that engine looks good - and I'm sure with the right exhaust it'll sound brilliant!
It would be interesting to see the real performance of it in an F1 car directly next to the current engines? Presumably, this gives Merc a long time to test it for reliability and fine tune it before homologation?

Author:  Johnston [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

No longer than anyone else. Ferrari already have theirs up and running and I think Renault have too.

Author:  VENEKOR [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I'll stop watching at this point, the new engines sound like fairy cakes.

I want go back to the V10s.

Author:  JohnnyGuitar [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

VENEKOR wrote:
I'll stop watching at this point, the new engines sound like fairy cakes.

I want go back to the V10s.


How do you know?

Author:  JohnnyGuitar [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

the incubus wrote:
hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.

But the thing was that in those days Turbo technology was at an evolutionary point and people really began to explore all the intricacies of a turbo system and being that it was F1, the squeezed the living daylights out of them to create monstrously overpowered 4-bangers. Then that was getting too powerful, too dangerous and as we all know highly unreliable and so the decision was made to go to natural aspiration. The V10's sounded incredible and most 12's even better, with that high pitched tone you could hear as the cars were coming around a distant corners, decibel levels increasing as the tone morphed into the loudest high-pitched scream as it blew past, taking with it anything that wasn't part of the track to the point, some of us blew loads in our shorts! LOL

The V8's of today sound really damn good but for those of us who have a better point of reference, knowing how the 10's and 12's sounded, they just lack that little sumthin'.

These new engines might add some excitement, but there's no substitute for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nVspbf4vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSo0zVnYR_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfmUPvhGGM


Shame about the sound of the traction control.

Author:  f1madman [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

A multi-million-£/$/€ engine will always be awesome.

Author:  Aeson [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

KERS will be absolutely vital now, considering it's twice as powerful and available for a third of the entire lap. Mark Webber must be worried...

Author:  Ev0lutionz [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Aeson wrote:
KERS will be absolutely vital now, considering it's twice as powerful and available for a third of the entire lap. Mark Webber must be worried...



He shouldn't.. Because the hulk is taking his seat?

Author:  REPLICATE [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Engines are getting smaller,but at least turbos are back :)

Author:  Angel De La Muerte [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

the incubus wrote:
hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.

But the thing was that in those days Turbo technology was at an evolutionary point and people really began to explore all the intricacies of a turbo system and being that it was F1, the squeezed the living daylights out of them to create monstrously overpowered 4-bangers. Then that was getting too powerful, too dangerous and as we all know highly unreliable and so the decision was made to go to natural aspiration. The V10's sounded incredible and most 12's even better, with that high pitched tone you could hear as the cars were coming around a distant corners, decibel levels increasing as the tone morphed into the loudest high-pitched scream as it blew past, taking with it anything that wasn't part of the track to the point, some of us blew loads in our shorts! LOL

The V8's of today sound really damn good but for those of us who have a better point of reference, knowing how the 10's and 12's sounded, they just lack that little sumthin'.

These new engines might add some excitement, but there's no substitute for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nVspbf4vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSo0zVnYR_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfmUPvhGGM


Sorry but those videos as well as reminding me how nice those V10s sounded, also reminded me of that HORRENDOUS traction control sound

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

the incubus wrote:
hd23 wrote:
I never thought they would sound bad, we had them in the 70s and 80s and people weren't mad.

But the thing was that in those days Turbo technology was at an evolutionary point and people really began to explore all the intricacies of a turbo system and being that it was F1, the squeezed the living daylights out of them to create monstrously overpowered 4-bangers. Then that was getting too powerful, too dangerous and as we all know highly unreliable and so the decision was made to go to natural aspiration. The V10's sounded incredible and most 12's even better, with that high pitched tone you could hear as the cars were coming around a distant corners, decibel levels increasing as the tone morphed into the loudest high-pitched scream as it blew past, taking with it anything that wasn't part of the track to the point, some of us blew loads in our shorts! LOL

The V8's of today sound really damn good but for those of us who have a better point of reference, knowing how the 10's and 12's sounded, they just lack that little sumthin'.

These new engines might add some excitement, but there's no substitute for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0nVspbf4vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSo0zVnYR_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfmUPvhGGM

V10s sounded the way they did because they had 25% more cylinders firing per second at equivalent rpms. V6s will see a 25% reduction from the V8s, coupled with a 16.7% drop in max rpm, resulting in a maximum frequency which is 5/8ths as high. So the engines will be much lower in pitch. However, we will have a new noise from the turbo and forced compression so it will be curious to see what the result is. The engines are allowed to use max fuel flow at 10,000rpm, so in theory they could produce maximum torque/power at this point with the turbo making the engine more powerful at that engine speed (and potentially louder at the lower engine notes) compared to the current engine noise. However the shrill, high speed shriek of he current engines will be a thing of the past. It's not to say it will be a bad noise, but it will most certainly be different.

Author:  johnp [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

My guess is they won't sound much different than current indycar turbo engines, which is not very impressive

Author:  Ev0lutionz [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

One thing to note guys, 5 engines per season per driver. So if there's any Kers failure or whatsoever, they are getting a grid drop. Great. Read it from James Allen's page.

Author:  Seanie [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

VENEKOR wrote:
I'll stop watching at this point, the new engines sound like fairy cakes.

I want go back to the V10s.

A, how do you know what they sound like?
And B, you watch a port because of the engine sound? :?

Author:  dizlexik [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

I don't think number of cylinders matter. Weren't the some awesome BMW turbos just 4 cylinders?

Author:  BRAIN OF IRELAND [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

dizlexik wrote:
I don't think number of cylinders matter. Weren't the some awesome BMW turbos just 4 cylinders?

BMW 4 Cylinder Turbo here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2W5U_Svxk

Author:  dizlexik [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't think number of cylinders matter. Weren't the some awesome BMW turbos just 4 cylinders?

BMW 4 Cylinder Turbo here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2W5U_Svxk

Oh I didn't know that there were 2 Winkelhocks in F1.

Author:  metamorphomisk [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

As if the sound comes through the TV nicely with all the commentary

Author:  funkymonkey [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

dizlexik wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't think number of cylinders matter. Weren't the some awesome BMW turbos just 4 cylinders?

BMW 4 Cylinder Turbo here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2W5U_Svxk

Oh I didn't know that there were 2 Winkelhocks in F1.

There were 3 actually from same family.
Manfred, then his younger brother Joachim and also Manfred's son Markus who tested for Midland in 06 and ran in Nurburgring in 07 in Spyker and retired :]

Author:  flyer [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

They left a lot in the shadows there.

When they introduce electric-only in the pitlane, and having to restart the engine at the end, wonder how many times we'll see cars crawling through the pits on nearly-dead batteries, not making it to the end, causing collisions and holding other cars up, and failing to restart and causing a safety car?

Have to wonder how many times a team-mate or sister-team's car will slow someone down in the pit lane "because the battery was low", and then they'll be investigating was the battery actually low or not, and was that intentional or accidental. Some will get away with cheating, and some innocents will be punished.

For those reasons I think they should forget about electric-only and let KERS just be a boost.


Also, Webber might as well retire at the end of next season, because with an electric motor that big on the engines he won't be able to score points in the half of the races where his KERS fails.

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

flyer wrote:
Have to wonder how many times a team-mate or sister-team's car will slow someone down in the pit lane "because the battery was low", and then they'll be investigating was the battery actually low or not, and was that intentional or accidental. Some will get away with cheating, and some innocents will be punished.

I was going to say to get your tinfoil hat out, but with all that stored ERS energy it's probably not a good idea.

Author:  dizlexik [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

funkymonkey wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
BRAIN OF IRELAND wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't think number of cylinders matter. Weren't the some awesome BMW turbos just 4 cylinders?

BMW 4 Cylinder Turbo here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2W5U_Svxk

Oh I didn't know that there were 2 Winkelhocks in F1.

There were 3 actually from same family.
Manfred, then his younger brother Joachim and also Manfred's son Markus who tested for Midland in 06 and ran in Nurburgring in 07 in Spyker and retired :]

I knew about Marcus then I've seen that video and now I've learned that there was another one. :thumbup:

Author:  flyer [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
flyer wrote:
Have to wonder how many times a team-mate or sister-team's car will slow someone down in the pit lane "because the battery was low", and then they'll be investigating was the battery actually low or not, and was that intentional or accidental. Some will get away with cheating, and some innocents will be punished.

I was going to say to get your tinfoil hat out, but with all that stored ERS energy it's probably not a good idea.

You're right, no-one would ever think of cheating like that, just like no-one would ever order their own car to crash.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

flyer wrote:
When they introduce electric-only in the pitlane, and having to restart the engine at the end, wonder how many times we'll see cars crawling through the pits on nearly-dead batteries, not making it to the end, causing collisions and holding other cars up, and failing to restart and causing a safety car?



I can't see it. I'm sure if push comes to the shove the FIA will let them go to petrol again rather than cause that. Then investigate whether it was Force Majuere or not after the race.

Author:  Hakkattack [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vs4Mv7ibkA

this is the sound you want...

Author:  Pedrosa_4_Ever [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

It might just be me but I've been to races in the V10/V12 era, the solely V10 era and the V8 one and don't actually notice that much difference in the sound of the cars... I certainly don't find one sound massively more pleasurable than the others.

Author:  RaggedMan [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Johnston wrote:
flyer wrote:
When they introduce electric-only in the pitlane, and having to restart the engine at the end, wonder how many times we'll see cars crawling through the pits on nearly-dead batteries, not making it to the end, causing collisions and holding other cars up, and failing to restart and causing a safety car?



I can't see it. I'm sure if push comes to the shove the FIA will let them go to petrol again rather than cause that. Then investigate whether it was Force Majuere or not after the race.

I thought I read that they're doing away with Force Majuere.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

RaggedMan wrote:
Johnston wrote:
flyer wrote:
When they introduce electric-only in the pitlane, and having to restart the engine at the end, wonder how many times we'll see cars crawling through the pits on nearly-dead batteries, not making it to the end, causing collisions and holding other cars up, and failing to restart and causing a safety car?



I can't see it. I'm sure if push comes to the shove the FIA will let them go to petrol again rather than cause that. Then investigate whether it was Force Majuere or not after the race.

I thought I read that they're doing away with Force Majuere.



Thats in quali if they don't make it around and claim fuel issues.

I just don't see how they can say cars must run on battery power and not have a proviso for when the battery power packs in. Unless they suggest cars just park up because they can't make their way down the pit with electric power. Which means parking on track because they wouldn't be allowed to drive into their pits to retire. Which would be pretty stupid at tracks like Monaco.

Author:  dizlexik [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mercedes Reveal V6 Turbo Engine

Johnston wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Johnston wrote:
flyer wrote:
When they introduce electric-only in the pitlane, and having to restart the engine at the end, wonder how many times we'll see cars crawling through the pits on nearly-dead batteries, not making it to the end, causing collisions and holding other cars up, and failing to restart and causing a safety car?



I can't see it. I'm sure if push comes to the shove the FIA will let them go to petrol again rather than cause that. Then investigate whether it was Force Majuere or not after the race.

I thought I read that they're doing away with Force Majuere.



Thats in quali if they don't make it around and claim fuel issues.

I just don't see how they can say cars must run on battery power and not have a proviso for when the battery power packs in. Unless they suggest cars just park up because they can't make their way down the pit with electric power. Which means parking on track because they wouldn't be allowed to drive into their pits to retire. Which would be pretty stupid at tracks like Monaco.

The rules 2014 are just draft. Anyway if car retires it wouldn't matter whether it broke rules or not. The car is already practically out of competition.

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