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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:41 pm 
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My opinion would be
Alonso
Hamilton
Hulk

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:50 pm 
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HAI GUIZ DAE NOT LIKE VETTELLLL?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Alonso would beat Vettel, and Hamilton would equal him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:10 pm 
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Just Alonso.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:19 pm 
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all of the above including Kimi Raikkonen would beat Vettel.....and Vettel would have an equal chance to beat them......Not much between all of them and I think its moronic to think that any one of those would just straight out beat any other every time.....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Are you joking Alonso would beat Vettel? LOL

Alonso would be destroyed in RBR with Vettel. All Alonso would do is try to gain number 1 status at any cost. 2007 again for him. When Alonso see that he can't gain the status he needs he would be mentally destroyed and starts to drive with his emotions. People underestimate Vettel a lot.

Hamilton is only driver that could beat Vettel but that would be a close battle. They are equally good with some differences ofc.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:30 pm 
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WJF1 wrote:
Are you joking Alonso would beat Vettel? LOL

Alonso would be destroyed in RBR with Vettel. All Alonso would do is try to gain number 1 status at any cost. 2007 again for him. When Alonso see that he can't gain the status he needs he would be mentally destroyed and starts to drive with his emotions. People underestimate Vettel a lot.

Hamilton is only driver that could beat Vettel but that would be a close battle. They are equally good with some differences ofc.

Saying Alonso would beat Vettel is not underestimating Vettel at all.

As for mental strength, well Vettel isn't the coolest bottle in the fridge at times himself, Turkey 2010 is testament to that.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:42 pm 
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When I reckon Alonso would beat Vettel in same-cars (say Red Bull-Renault) I assume Fernando would have to have had some time in the team and that he could then race at his peak; same with Hamilton. What the OP is asking is comparative driver ability.

I don't think Vettel or Hamilton would win as many races as Alonso in same-cars; it would be more like Senna-Prost in 1988-9: the wins would be close, but I'd put money on Alonso to score the most. He is not as emotional/temperamental as Seb and Lewis. This is not to dismiss SV and LH, just that imo they would rate as Hakkinen did against Michael S or Rindt vs Stewart: slightly below.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:08 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Just Alonso.


The guy who beat Alonso when a rookie can't beat Vettel, but Alonso who lost to the guy can, very strange and flawed Logic.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Just Alonso.


The guy who beat Alonso when a rookie can't beat Vettel, but Alonso who lost to the guy can, very strange and flawed Logic.



5 years have passed.

Some drivers get better some get worse. Things don't stay the same.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Vettel's advantage over Webber increases as the exhaust aided downforce increases so to answer a question with a question, "Which other drivers perform well in a car with a firmly planted rear end?" A driver who likes a sharp front end and does not mind a bit of twitch at the back is probably not going to do as well in the Red Bull as Vettel. I'm not all that familiar with the individual driving styles of the usual suspects but that is the point I would be looking at if everything else was equal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Alonso could beat him over a season in the right conditions but I think even he would struggle if the car was dominant as Vettel may just be a little to fast for him. Hamilton i believe could be a match or even better than Vettel for speed but he struggles to make the most of every winning situation which is what Vettel is an expert as so as long as the car was good I think Vettel would beat him.

Nobody else would get that close in a normal season.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:33 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:38 pm 
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On 2012 form.

I would expect Lewis and Alonso. Maybe Kimi. If Jenson was on better form I may give him a chance also.

There are too many variables that cannot be controlled though like luck, pit-stops and reliability that can swing teamate battles on way or another. For example, Lewis only beat Jenson by 2 points last year when he was miles better than him in my view.

I am not sold on Hulky yet, give it a few more seasons.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Alonso vs Vettel in Red Bull? Close battle. I think Alonso by a small margin.
Alonso vs Vettel in Ferrari? Alonso easily.

But it's not about number 1 status. It's about car characteristic. Red Bull cars are easy to drive with a stable rear, while Ferrari usually produce very troblesome car (at least in the last few seasons).

I also think that Hamilton would beat Vettel in Red Bull. By a small margin too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:54 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think Vettel would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:57 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think Vettel would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?

Jarno Truli


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Jomox wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Just Alonso.


The guy who beat Alonso when a rookie can't beat Vettel, but Alonso who lost to the guy can, very strange and flawed Logic.

That was 5 years ago and I still don't believe Alonso was given a fair deal by McLaren Monaco onwards anyway.

If you stuck the whole grid in RB8's then I believe Alonso would beat the lot of them over a race. Hamilton would get Pole, Alonso the race win. Just like Hakkinen and Schumacher in the late 90's/early 00's, Mika got Pole, Michael the 10 points. Vettel would beat Hamilton in a race more often than not IMO too, he seems to be able to drag a car to it's limit for longer, Hamilton can get more out of it for a shorter period of time. Over a race that could be critical.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:04 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think Vettel would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?

Jarno Truli


during there time together

Alonso =100 points
Trulli =79 points

Even just talking about 2004 Alonso had 1 point less when Trulli was sacked and had two more retirements hardly beaten.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:04 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:07 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think Vettel would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?

Vettel only just beat Alonso in 2012 and Vettel had a much faster car for much of the season. If Alonso 2012 spec was in a Red Bull he'd have walked the title.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think Vettel would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?

Vettel only just beat Alonso in 2012 and Vettel had a much faster car for much of the season. If Alonso 2012 spec was in a Red Bull he'd have walked the title.


Very possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:14 pm 
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If there would be only Red Bull in the grid Vettel would win even easier. That car is so damn slow at straight and fast in hands of driver that it suites it would be even easier to Vettel win everything.

Don't get me wrong but Vettel is now quite impossible to win. Developement as a driver is huge compared even to Hamilton.

Alonso wants always number 1 status. That seems to be his idea of dominance. He can't beat driver that is equal because he needs every point for himself. He can't stand team-member cost him points infront of him even when it happens from the start of the season. Fair or not he is little spoiled child all because of Flavio and his style of management. But that said so is Vettel showing a little of same and i hope it doesn't grow on him. Good for him we did get Kimi back to show him what true champions are. Fair and don't care about others and don't end up crying or doing some F1 politics.

Hamilton in other hand is equal to Vettel in so many things. They will become a lot better than Alonso has ever been. Hamilton without all those problems with McLaren would have been bigger threat to Vettel than Alonso.

EDIT: Also you have to calculate that same amount of technical problems would have been happen to other drivers too like Vettel did have. And Ferrari was fast so fast that if they could get close enough they would get that "free pass"-button and easy wins.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:17 pm 
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I don't think any would. Maybe alonso playing the long game over a season by being more consistant. But given that any of them would quali close on the grid. One of Vettels main skills is those first few laps. Somewhere and some how he gets more confidence and a better feel for the car with the full load on.

So even if his team mate quali'd in front of him on the front row. I would fully expect that skill set to give him the lead and pull out the distance to control things before his team mate got the feel for things.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...


Maybe but don't forget that was probably his worst ever season and was a while ago. If he drove that badly then Vettel would beat him but if he drove like he did in 2006 then I think l would struggle. Who else has beaten Fernando? Can't think of anyone?

Vettel only just beat Alonso in 2012 and Vettel had a much faster car for much of the season. If Alonso 2012 spec was in a Red Bull he'd have walked the title.

One of the cars were very reliable and the other was not :)

The reliability is very important. For instance Vettel's Valencia DNF causes a 33 point swing in championship. It would take 4-5 races to claw back 33 gap in WDC against another contender.

By your logic, McLaren was quite often the fastest car of all. Then Why do you think Lewis finished 100 points down on Vettel and Alonso???

Alonso would have walked the title like he did in 2007 McLaren??? Alonso will always stuggle against a very fast driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:19 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Just Alonso.


The guy who beat Alonso when a rookie can't beat Vettel, but Alonso who lost to the guy can, very strange and flawed Logic.



5 years have passed.

Some drivers get better some get worse. Things don't stay the same.

Drivers get better, its only advancing years when they start to fall off, its very hard to believe a 22 year old Hamilton was better then he is now at 28, 28 and over the hill especially after the season he has just had, i don't think so.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Jomox wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Just Alonso.


The guy who beat Alonso when a rookie can't beat Vettel, but Alonso who lost to the guy can, very strange and flawed Logic.



5 years have passed.

Some drivers get better some get worse. Things don't stay the same.

Drivers get better, its only advancing years when they start to fall off, its very hard to believe a 22 year old Hamilton was better then he is now at 28, 28 and over the hill especially after the season he has just had, i don't think so.


Villenueve, Fissichella? Its unlikely but not impossible a driver hits his peek very early.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Thumpah wrote:
Vettel's advantage over Webber increases as the exhaust aided downforce increases so to answer a question with a question, "Which other drivers perform well in a car with a firmly planted rear end?" A driver who likes a sharp front end and does not mind a bit of twitch at the back is probably not going to do as well in the Red Bull as Vettel. I'm not all that familiar with the individual driving styles of the usual suspects but that is the point I would be looking at if everything else was equal.

Just because Webber has a problem you can't tar other drivers with the same brush, when have either Hamilton or Alonso struggled with a car? Some drivers can adapt, some can't, it suits Red Bull to have Webber as Vettel's teammate.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:30 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
Alonso was paired with two fast drivers in his career and lost both of the matchups. If he is paired with Vettel it will be 2007 dejavu...

Thats just semantics Alonso and Hamilton were quite well matched, which other driver do you refer to?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:32 pm 
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'No one whilst I'm still here'. H Marko.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:32 pm 
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PacificBeach wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jarno Truli

Trulli didn't beat Alonso either

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
PacificBeach wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jarno Truli

Trulli didn't beat Alonso either



He was ahead on points when he was fired IIRC.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Hamilton & Alonso are able to beat vettel
If the car is slightly twichy or a bit difficult to drive , Hamilton beats them both.
In a good balanced car, it would be very even

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:38 pm 
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WJF1 wrote:
If there would be only Red Bull in the grid Vettel would win even easier. That car is so damn slow at straight and fast in hands of driver that it suites it would be even easier to Vettel win everything.

Don't get me wrong but Vettel is now quite impossible to win. Developement as a driver is huge compared even to Hamilton.

Alonso wants always number 1 status. That seems to be his idea of dominance. He can't beat driver that is equal because he needs every point for himself. He can't stand team-member cost him points infront of him even when it happens from the start of the season. Fair or not he is little spoiled child all because of Flavio and his style of management. But that said so is Vettel showing a little of same and i hope it doesn't grow on him. Good for him we did get Kimi back to show him what true champions are. Fair and don't care about others and don't end up crying or doing some F1 politics.

Hamilton in other hand is equal to Vettel in so many things. They will become a lot better than Alonso has ever been. Hamilton without all those problems with McLaren would have been bigger threat to Vettel than Alonso.

EDIT: Also you have to calculate that same amount of technical problems would have been happen to other drivers too like Vettel did have. And Ferrari was fast so fast that if they could get close enough they would get that "free pass"-button and easy wins.

This slow in a straightline but Vettel still is quicker seems to show a lack of understanding at what actually makes a F1 car go fast

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:41 pm 
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In similar cars over the season:
Alonso.
Hamilton.

After that I think Kimi would be closest but would lose against Vettel.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
I don't think any would. Maybe alonso playing the long game over a season by being more consistant. But given that any of them would quali close on the grid. One of Vettels main skills is those first few laps. Somewhere and some how he gets more confidence and a better feel for the car with the full load on.

So even if his team mate quali'd in front of him on the front row. I would fully expect that skill set to give him the lead and pull out the distance to control things before his team mate got the feel for things.

Or that might have something to do with the car, i believe at one point the Bulls had a system of getting heat quickly into the tyres?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:47 pm 
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I think a better title would be 'could' rather than 'would', then i would answer Alonso and Hamilton, maybe even Kimi?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Or that might have something to do with the car, i believe at one point the Bulls had a system of getting heat quickly into the tyres?


Yip that was with the EBD. But then why can't Webber do the same ;)

Even if the car is doing trick stuff you have to have the confidence to use it. Remember the first lap is probably at best only the second time in a race weekend they have a full load of fuel. Alot of things in that first handful of laps create a unique experience over the weekend. From tyre and brake temps after sitting on the grid to the track conditions. It's the first time they will have a full load on in those conditions and probably the first since the Friday. So even with any trick stuff heating tyres it's still a relative unknown where things like the braking points are as the track will evolved over the weekend plus any overnight factors or support races. No amount of trick stuff on the car is going to give the driver the info where to brake etc in that first lap especially.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Hulk? What's with him getting so hyped up these days? Top driver, but he's not at Vettel's level yet. Alonso and Hamilton would give him a run for his money, maybe Alonso would beat him. Very close.

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