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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:05 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pavilion103 wrote:
Schumacher beat Rosberg in most races.

That's the orange juice talking - have a look at the points.


He's not wrong. He talked about races: in the races they both finished, Michael was ahead. most time.

Well IMO technically he is. "Most races" also include the ones he DNF'd.


How can you count the races that one of them didn't finish? Apart from India maybe, where Schumacher was still classified (as he had covered more than 90% of the race).

Easily. He said "most races" full stop.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:54 am 
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Even if you count his dnfs rosberg still beat him 93 points to 81.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:27 am 
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Covalent wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pavilion103 wrote:
Schumacher beat Rosberg in most races.


.
.
.

Well IMO technically he is. "Most races" also include the ones he DNF'd.


How can you count the races that one of them didn't finish? Apart from India maybe, where Schumacher was still classified (as he had covered more than 90% of the race).

Easily. He said "most races" full stop.


Then you better ask him of what he meant before jumping into conclusions.

You can't beat someone who is not racing

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:34 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pavilion103 wrote:
Schumacher beat Rosberg in most races.


.
.
.

Well IMO technically he is. "Most races" also include the ones he DNF'd.


How can you count the races that one of them didn't finish? Apart from India maybe, where Schumacher was still classified (as he had covered more than 90% of the race).

Easily. He said "most races" full stop.


Then you better ask him of what he meant before jumping into conclusions.

You can't beat someone who is not racing

technically he was racing he just didn't finish


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:47 am 
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potter84 wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Covalent wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
pavilion103 wrote:
Schumacher beat Rosberg in most races.


.
.
.



How can you count the races that one of them didn't finish? Apart from India maybe, where Schumacher was still classified (as he had covered more than 90% of the race).

Easily. He said "most races" full stop.


Then you better ask him of what he meant before jumping into conclusions.

You can't beat someone who is not racing

technically he was racing he just didn't finish


I can agree to that. You are absolutely right.

So let's put it another way. In 2012 the following things happened:

Schumacher was ahead in most races when they both finished.

Rosberg was ahead in points in all races.


When pavilion103 mentions "Schumacher beat Rosberg in most races", which of the two do you think he meant?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:31 am 
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this isnt about who was ahead of whom, it is about comparing race pace, and schumacher was almost always slower than rosberg even when he was ahead, In 2011 I rememer people saying that schumi was better than rosberg in the race, but even then he was slower than rosberg in the race most of the time. like it or not schumacher has been comprehensively outpaced for three years straight and this is coming from one of his biggest fans.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:07 pm 
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POBRatings wrote:
gamer9 wrote:
although schumi was much closer or on par with rosberg in quali in 2012, his race pace was pretty much always slower than rosberg. i ve always thought that schumi had the skill and speed but his reactions and consistency werent there for him, after watching his onboard race in china and bahrain in the race he was just very untidy in many of the corners, losing the back a bit, not hitting the apex fullys and just not being consistent and concentrated enough to make less of those small mistakes that ultimately cost him laptime. if you watch nico's onboard he is much better on the racing lines and having less twitchy moments. what do you guys think about shumacher's driving in the races?


Imo exactly what you described.

Although Michael improved precisely as you say in 2012, and got closer to Nico, (my calcs show he was 0.1 off in pre-race time average and 0.2 off in race times, by my rating system figures), the standard of drivers at the top of the field today is so high, I think any driver in his forties and after a 3-year 'layoff' would struggle. Including Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Clark, Fangio, etc.


How much of that is due to Texas though, where the Coanda scorched his rear tyres after he started 5th (quali 6th).

Not saying Nico wouldn't have qualified up near Schumacher if he had used the new Coanda. But that is what caused the really slow pace.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:11 pm 
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gamer9 wrote:
this isnt about who was ahead of whom, it is about comparing race pace, and schumacher was almost always slower than rosberg even when he was ahead, In 2011 I rememer people saying that schumi was better than rosberg in the race, but even then he was slower than rosberg in the race most of the time. like it or not schumacher has been comprehensively outpaced for three years straight and this is coming from one of his biggest fans.


I seem to remember Schumacher and Nico being about level in 2011. Nico better in quali, Schumacher quicker in the race, Nico overall probably slightly ahead.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:23 pm 
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POBRatings wrote:
gamer9 wrote:
although schumi was much closer or on par with rosberg in quali in 2012, his race pace was pretty much always slower than rosberg. i ve always thought that schumi had the skill and speed but his reactions and consistency werent there for him, after watching his onboard race in china and bahrain in the race he was just very untidy in many of the corners, losing the back a bit, not hitting the apex fullys and just not being consistent and concentrated enough to make less of those small mistakes that ultimately cost him laptime. if you watch nico's onboard he is much better on the racing lines and having less twitchy moments. what do you guys think about shumacher's driving in the races?


Imo exactly what you described.

Although Michael improved precisely as you say in 2012, and got closer to Nico, (my calcs show he was 0.1 off in pre-race time average and 0.2 off in race times, by my rating system figures), the standard of drivers at the top of the field today is so high, I think any driver in his forties and after a 3-year 'layoff' would struggle. Including Senna, Lauda, Stewart, Clark, Fangio, etc.


IIRC correctly your stats had Schumi 0.2 seconds ahead after Monza. He then crashed whilst a few seconds behind Nico in Singapore, after which Nico did not score any more points and had 3 crashes, as Merc (esp. Nico) had a rather drab end to the season. Schumi had 6 points in the wet in Brazil and was on for 6 in Abu Dhabi before yet more car problems (puncture).

He then finished ahead of Schumacher in 2 races. India where Schumacher had faster race pace after recovering from early race puncture damage and being hit by Vergne from behind, and Texas. He certainly wasn't faster in Brazil, and deduction leaves Texas as the only remainder.

So I would be somewhat sceptical of what you have said.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:30 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
ok first 7 races i recall schumi qualifying well, gearbox i think give him that, wheel wasn't done right and Drs flap stuck other than those 3 the other 2 were of his making ran into the back of senna and Monaco shouldn't have been a retirement his car was still drivable they retired him because the race was going so badly and could then change the gear box etc if needed without penalty.


What are you talking about, retire from 6th place while closing in on the leaders?

He had a fuel pressure problem. No it was nothing to do with Grosjean at the start (58 laps earlier).

Merc should be thanking Senna, he saved them a lot of embarassment.


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