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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:28 am 
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Lentulus wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:
Another vote for Baghetti, he didn't just win his first F1 race, he won his first THREE F1 races

In terms of debut performances, no one else is in the same ball park

While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Hamilton's debut was definitely the best rookie debut in the years that I have watched F1. He showed such confidence throughout the whole weekend.

I remember Vettel's debut with BMW was decent as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:45 pm 
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SchumieRules wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:
Another vote for Baghetti, he didn't just win his first F1 race, he won his first THREE F1 races

In terms of debut performances, no one else is in the same ball park

While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

But only one was an F1 race.
1 win in a row.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Johnny Herbert. Finished 4th on his debut with feet he could barely feel the pedals with. He shouldn't have even been racing.
I'm a bit ashamed I had forgotten this. He walked past me a few months later, and his legs looked as though they were going to snap backwards! I don't know whether he was sidelined with good cause by Benetton, because he himself had no qualms about jumping into seats that came up for just a race or two. I believe he drove for Tyrrell by the time of the Belgian Grand Prix.

Good call, Laura!

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Johnny Herbert. Finished 4th on his debut with feet he could barely feel the pedals with. He shouldn't have even been racing.
I'm a bit ashamed I had forgotten this. He walked past me a few months later, and his legs looked as though they were going to snap backwards! I don't know whether he was sidelined with good cause by Benetton, because he himself had no qualms about jumping into seats that came up for just a race or two. I believe he drove for Tyrrell by the time of the Belgian Grand Prix.

Good call, Laura!

Thanks Fiki. :)

It was too much too soon for Herbert I think, he gave his all on his debut and it paid off handsomely but you have to wonder at what cost for the rest of the year. He failed to even qualify for Canada. He only driver two GP for Tyrrell, Spa and Portugal (which he DNQd). I wonder if the effort he put in for that first race in Brazil just took too much out of him and his feet. He didn't return to F1 until a year later, replacing Martin Donnelly after his own horrific shunt in Jerez. By then Herbert's feet had had enough time to settle down and so his long F1 career could begin!

If he had never broken his feet and he had signed that Williams deal for 1989 I do wonder what he could have done, he was a good driver after his accident, he could have been great without it.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:59 pm 
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FatAlbert and Laura: thanks for reminding us of:
Baghetti's debut which was unique.
Herbert's debut to even finish the race was amazing; he became a very competent driver for years after his accident. He did very well at Lotus against Hakkinen in 1992; Schumacher waged war on Johhny at Benetton, but even during his last seasons in the 2000s he was good.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:16 am 
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Lentulus wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:
Another vote for Baghetti, he didn't just win his first F1 race, he won his first THREE F1 races

In terms of debut performances, no one else is in the same ball park

While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

But only one was an F1 race.
1 win in a row.

Non-championship races are still F1 races.

3 wins in a row.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:26 am 
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Tufty wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:
Another vote for Baghetti, he didn't just win his first F1 race, he won his first THREE F1 races

In terms of debut performances, no one else is in the same ball park

While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

But only one was an F1 race.
1 win in a row.

Non-championship races are still F1 races.

3 wins in a row.


Didn't non-chapionship races have slightly relaxed regulations, allowing lower formula cars into the races?

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:40 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Tufty wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

But only one was an F1 race.
1 win in a row.

Non-championship races are still F1 races.

3 wins in a row.


Didn't non-chapionship races have slightly relaxed regulations, allowing lower formula cars into the races?


Most WDC contenders raced in the non-championship races if I'm not mistaken. And I don't think more backmarkers would make it easier necessarily.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:58 am 
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I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Didn't non-chapionship races have slightly relaxed regulations, allowing lower formula cars into the races?
Even in championship races lower formulae were sometimes allowed, just to make up a more or less respectable starting field. Jackie Ickx entered his first Grand Prix at the Nürburgring in a F2 car. He had to start behind all the F1 cars, but within a couple of laps, he had passed half of them.

I just remember having high expectations of Jean Alesi, when he got an early chance in F1. And I wasn't disappointed at all! If only the rest of his career had been like his debut.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 am 
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chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


I personally don't think so if the driver achieved the absolute maximum the back marker car could possibly achieve

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:20 am 
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chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


Webber was mentioned, his debut was great for that car

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:28 am 
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SchumieRules wrote:
chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


Webber was mentioned, his debut was great for that car

Yep, but circumstances helped him and as Silverstoneregular said, we should focus on race pace and not results that could be result of fortune, on 2002 only a few cars ended the race so it was a matter of survival. Great performance by Webber anyway. But to honour the truth we should study each great driver first race and compare.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:35 am 
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chican wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


Webber was mentioned, his debut was great for that car

Yep, but circumstances helped him and as Silverstoneregular said, we should focus on race pace and not results that could be result of fortune, on 2002 only a few cars ended the race so it was a matter of survival. Great performance by Webber anyway. But to honour the truth we should study each great driver first race and compare.


He did manage to beat a much-faster Salo whilst driving with a broken differential. It was by no means an easy walk to the flag.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:38 am 
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chican wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


Webber was mentioned, his debut was great for that car

Yep, but circumstances helped him and as Silverstoneregular said, we should focus on race pace and not results that could be result of fortune, on 2002 only a few cars ended the race so it was a matter of survival. Great performance by Webber anyway. But to honour the truth we should study each great driver first race and compare.


Of course. Minardi finished 5th and 7th, only beating the new Toyota team and the horrible Jaguar. Only 8 drivers finished, so it would be hard not to score some points.

Never the less, Weber's driving was good and his race pace for that car was not bad at all. He was almost a whole lap ahead of his team-mate, as a rookie (ok, Yoong was not the best driver and only had 3 more races). Under the circumstances it was a great feat

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:57 am 
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chican wrote:
I think this thread rules out any great who made his debut on a backmarker car.


Suggest someone?


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:15 am 
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If I understand the comment correctly, that this thread rules out any great who made his debut in a backmarker car, the following?
Lauda for March 1971
Mansell for Lotus 1980
Moss for HWM in 1951
Alonso for Minardi 2001
Raikkonen for Suaber 2001

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:20 am 
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Nobody has yet mentioned Ricardo Rodriguez (younger brother of the better known Pedro). Ricardo's F1 debut, as a guest driver for Ferrari at the 1961 Italian Grand Prix was pretty sensational. Despite it being his first drive in an F1 car, Ricardo put the Ferrari on the front row, only a tenth behind pole man and team-mate Wolfgang von Trips and well ahead of Richie Ginther and Phil Hill in the other two works Ferraris. At 19 years and 208 days he was (and still is) the youngest driver to start on the front row of a World Championship Grand Prix. In the race he diced for the lead with Ginther and Hill until a failed fuel pump ended his run.

The year before his F1 debut at Monza, he and Andre Pilette finished second in the Le Mans 24 Hour Race, making Ricardo (18 years and 133 days) the youngest podium finisher in Le Mans history.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:27 am 
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In terms of putting a car out of position Eddie Irvine would be in with a shout.


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:33 pm 
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One that slipped under the radar a bit for me was Esteban Tuero. His lack of pedigree in lower formulae led no less a commentator than Martin Brundle to make the following statement:

"As for Tuero, it would have been scary. I don't like to see these guys out there with so little experience. Imagine it: even if he didn't qualify, he'd be getting in the way during qualifying. And if he did qualify, then he'd definitely be being lapped plenty. He'd have really needed to have his wits about him. To be honest, it annoys me, people like that, with zilch credibility."

Tuero then made him eat his words by out-qualifying his team mate plus a number of drivers in clearly superior machinery.

An engine problem put him out, but his race pace was less than a second off Schumacher's!


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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:00 pm 
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DonkeyRhubarb wrote:
One that slipped under the radar a bit for me was Esteban Tuero. His lack of pedigree in lower formulae led no less a commentator than Martin Brundle to make the following statement:

"As for Tuero, it would have been scary. I don't like to see these guys out there with so little experience. Imagine it: even if he didn't qualify, he'd be getting in the way during qualifying. And if he did qualify, then he'd definitely be being lapped plenty. He'd have really needed to have his wits about him. To be honest, it annoys me, people like that, with zilch credibility."

Tuero then made him eat his words by out-qualifying his team mate plus a number of drivers in clearly superior machinery.

An engine problem put him out, but his race pace was less than a second off Schumacher's!

Schumacher only did 5 laps and one of those was half done with an already failing engine. Tuero managed 22 and a lot of his fuel would have burned off by then. Skews it a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Best F1 debut races
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:04 pm 
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Tufty wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
Lentulus wrote:
Fat Albert wrote:
Another vote for Baghetti, he didn't just win his first F1 race, he won his first THREE F1 races

In terms of debut performances, no one else is in the same ball park

While I vote Baghetti as the best F1 debut ever, his victory in that race (1961 French GP) was his only F1 World Championship victory.
His other two wins were non-championship races.


They were still wins though.

3 wins in a row

But only one was an F1 race.
1 win in a row.

Non-championship races are still F1 races.

3 wins in a row.

Non-championship races don't count, never have, never will.
1 win in a row.
If you're adding non-championship races in why not add the Aurora F1 Series, or the Bologna F1 Sprints?


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