planetf1.com

And sorry but...no drivers in F1 lack overtaking skills. Even Karthikeyan. You simply can't get there without them. When you see collisions from overtaking maneuvers in F1 its generally a failure of judgement, not a failure of execution.

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Read more closely Haribo. I never out any blame on Hamilton for Valencia. In hindsight one could argue with finalised tyres he could have just let Pastor go though. But like I said I dunno how hard Pastor was actually pushing on his brake pedal at that point in time...

As for Spa, it was Hamilton's fault. Everyone said so at the time and nothing has changed since then. He cut across KK thinking he'd completed the move when he hadn't.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

The thing is, (and I'm referring to Singapore 2010) is that it was just the tiniest mistake. But in Formula One, just a tiny mistake can have profound repercussions. And let's try to look at it without getting crazy. It's in the heat of battle for the WDC, a Formula One car has absolutely horrible vision from any angle, and what happened was not a car ramming another, but two cars that touched fighting for the same corner. I believe that Hamilton made just a tiny mistake, he believed he was clear of Webber. That doesn't make him a jerk, or moron, or anything remotely negative, it was just a very tiny mistake in judging distances and timing under the most difficult circumstances. Heck, it was also a night race, that also factors into the equation. The incident occured on a restart lap, when aggression is high and weird things happen.

Anyone, anyone could have made the same mistake.

These guys are Formula One drivers, where expectations are high, and they are expected to fight for every millimeter. And anyone who has watched Webber at any time knows that he will not concede anything, you have to take it from him. Just look how he treated Vettel in Brazil (2012) at the start. Could Webber have backed off? Definitely yes. Should he have backed off? Definitely no, he was expected to contest every position.

I believe that almost every fan expects any driver to race hard, but clean, to attack with vigor, and defend with the same amount of determination and energy. Trulli was sacked by Briatore (hmm, Webber's current manager) because he believed he surrendered a position without defending hard enough. Ralf earned a reputation for not attacking his famous brother when he had the opportunity. Some of the best drives and victories are a result of a driver defending his position with tremendous zeal and energy. Senna against Mansell at Monaco, Villeneuve and Arnoux at Dijon, Alonso against Schumacher at Imola in 2005. So some expect Mark Webber, one hard-nose driver to just give up without a fight? I really don't think that's realistic.

If he kept the line he was on yes.



Neither did Webber. Not one of the videos show a lock up.



Yes and no . If the guy on the outside turned in they would have touched. The guys on the outside knew they weren't going to make the corner so backed out.

Radius of the corner may be different but the principles the same. The guy on the inside had the corner.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

i laugh when people say "Vettel can't overtake" yea that makes alot of sense,a double world champion with multiple race victories,multiple poles etc can't do probably the simplest thing in racing,yep that makes alot of sense

Nobody is listening to me :sniffle:

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Not everyone.

1.You can't compare Valencia 2012 with Singapore 2010
2. It was 100% Maldonados fault, there was not even a discussion about it, to say to give Hamilton the benefit of doubt there is nonsense, because there had never been any doubt, who caused the collission
3. Why should Hamilton let Maldonado through? If you argue like this you could also have said Webber should have let Hamilton trough

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Self aggrandising, condoscending drivel to a humorous degree

Ex F1 driver/pundits did not agree on who was at fault - but you know better or best? It's your field after all.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

If I were lewis I would have let pasta have that...knowing pasta and knowing the stakes. The only person who thought that was going to work out okay was Lewis. While its not his fault Pasta did what he did, it is his fault for being there and giving him the opportunity. Lost good points there. Needed more Fernandoism in that moment.

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In hindsight I said it probably would have been better to let Maldonado through. Hamilton wouldn't have been in the wall that way at least but yes why should he have when they are racing.

Just like in hindsight Webber maybe should have let Hamilton go but why should he when racing for a Championship?

You see where this is going? You accuse me of not being consistent but neither are you. If Hamilton shouldn't have given up in Valencia then why should Webber have done so in Singapore? After all unlike Hamilton in Spain Webber's tyres were fine in Singapore.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

The stewards did - it is THEIR field. Literally and figuratively. They called it a 50/50, same as I did. Its Mark's fault he gave Lewis the opportunity, and Lewis' for taking the bait. But only one had the power to stop it once Mark had made his decision.

And you asked me a question, sorry I answered it truthfully for you.

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I get to go home from work now, yay! By all means go back to not listening for awhile.

(and tip your waitress, plz)

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Lewis should have given up the place in Spain although it was Pastors fault he lacked foresight in how that would end.
Mark should have given up the place in Singapore although overall it was a 50/50 Mark lacked foresight in how that would end.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

What Did Hamilton similar there with Maldonado?
Nothing, because the roles where completely different

The only simillartiy is, it was Hamilton, who had to retire from a race

It the same when the people put the blame for canada 2011 on Hamilton and Spa for 2011, too

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

I was about to post a thread regarding Hamilton and his abilities. However I saw this one pop up and I really do not need to create one

Anyway to the question, Hamilton's abilities have been questioned a lot over the past couple years. He has had much scrutiny from the Media and the stewards (last year). I like Hamilton he a great guy, but his track attitude a bit too aggressive for my liking. Back to the question, Vettel, Alonso, Button, and Kimi would surely beat Hamilton.

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Pressure: You're either giving it, or taking it.

1. Agreed

2. Maldonado did screw up, but Hamilton made the strategic error of racing a driver he did not have to. At that time, Hamilton was leading the WDC, Maldonado was just racing for position. I've always preached that you don't just race everyone, you race the ones you have to beat. Maldonado was not on Hamilton's list for that situation. Great drivers, especially Prost, practiced wonderful racecraft by understanding the big picture, and driving accordingly.

3. In Singapore 2010 both Hamilton and Webber were battling for the title, late in the season. It was a pivotal race, and moment. In Valencia in 2012, Hamilton was leading the WDC and Maldonado was not in that picture. Maldonado was much quicker, he has a well-earned reputation for excessive aggression leading to mistakes, and if Hamiton had chosen to allow Maldonado past, he would have finished the race and still be in powerful contention for the WDC.

In Valencia, Hamilton did not make any driving errors, but he made one huge strategic error by racing someone he should not have.

Funny how some believe it was acceptable for Hamilton to contest a position with Maldonado, who had fresher tires and was quicker, while maintaining that Webber should have given way.

That's one heck of a confession to make here!

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What did you say... Douglas?

I'm a girl, I'm allowed to watch crap television.

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I'm a husband, I'm obliged to watch crap television...

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What did you say... Douglas?

I really do admire your posts Toostie

I don't make my husbandy-type figure watch my girl shows. I make him watch all sorts of racing though (which he hates) and he makes me watch MotoGP (which I hate).

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I wish I could make this my new signature

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I AM THE THREAD KILLER.

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Whaaaat? I'm neither fat nor a girl, or hijacking a thread... are you sure you're talking about me? Are you talking about me?

Or am I paranoid?

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

He's not talking about you.

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

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I AM THE THREAD KILLER.

So now you want to change 2 results?

Get over it man, Alonso won the title fair and square.

The Alonso-Renault package was the best for the first half of the season. Then the FIA changed the rules and they dropped back. And he still won the title.
Schumacher's engine blow in Suzuka was one of the best examples of karma that I have ever seen.

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

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Best of luck, it was nice knowing ya!

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"I am a believer, but I start each Grand Prix with 195 liters of fuel behind me," he explains. "I don't rely entirely on God, I rely on Prost."

Please do not quote offensive posts, just report them. By quoting them you increase the amount of cleanup we have to do and run the risk of being warned yourselves, as per the forum rules. Thanks in advance!

Sorry boss.

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I knew that one was destined for a ban... if only reports could be based on proactive intuition.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas

Sorry Mod's, I did think you might have to do some clean-up but wasn't sure when posting.

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I AM THE THREAD KILLER.

There are only three drivers with a realistic chance of doing so under normal circumstances - Vettel, Raikkonen and Alonso.

2011 was surprising when Button beat him, but you have to give credit to Button. There might have been talk that Hamilton was unhappy or whatever, but you don't see other drivers having their private lives taken into account when their performance dips, so I'm inclined to ignore that.

I think Button and Webber could beat him but it'd be much less likely than the three I mentioned before.

Serious personal problems can very much influence anything. D. Hill was speaking of a idendity crises Hamilton had gone through, don't know if this was the reason or only Hills assumption

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"Everything you can imagine is real." Pablo Picasso

Sorry, forgot about that.

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wtf is a husbandy type figure lol.

Barbie's husbandy type play figure, the Ken doll?

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"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

The man I live with who I am not married to and don't call my boyfriend.


Did I miss getting called a fat thread jacker? Darn it.

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isn't that what the rest of the world calls a housemate? unless maybe there is missing bits.