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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Go with me on this. Links to be posted soon.

It is suggested that Horner and Newey always sign and renew their Red Bull contracts together.
Ferrari Could want both

Use Google translate
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 12301.html

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11301235300 ... ed-ferrari

http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/01/23/red-b ... maranello/

Now, could be media garbage. But the old saying. No Smoke without fire.......


Last edited by robberred1993 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:31 pm 
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Non mainstream media reported that a meeting took place awhile ago. No information about what it was about, just that Horner was at Maranello. Try not to get too excited.


http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/repor ... d-ferrari/

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Last edited by ashley313 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Here is a link. I was wondering how long it would be before this found it's way to the forum.
:)

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/report-red-bull-s-horner-visited-ferrari/

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Not that excited.

I'm rather impartial, not a RB or Ferrari Fan. Christian seems a good bloke. Just thought it would also make good discussion :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Interesting ... Ill have to get the boss to ask him what is was about


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:01 pm 
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i would imagine ferrari are after horner, newey and vettel in one big signing. on the other hand all three could parlay that into much larger salaries from red bull.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:11 pm 
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I just cant imagine a serious job offer would come from their HR manager and not Luca. Maybe Ferrari and RBR are doing some personnel swapsies on a much lower level. I'll trade you a composite buyer, a driveline test engineer, and two accounts manager for 3 windtunnel techs...

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Maybe it was.

"Can we borrow your wind tunnel please? "

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Maybe it wasnt the HR man they met but someone else and red bull want Ferrari engines or there is already a done deal on them and they were just discussing engine aspects ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Maybe he's finally marrying Beverly and wants the Ferrari chef to cater the affair.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:41 pm 
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Maybe they are doing a vettel Alonso swap


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Yeah, because that makes sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:57 pm 
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I believe they will stay at Red Bull. This is just negotiation strategy to get more money from Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:09 am 
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I just don't think that if Horner was being targeted by Ferrari that he'd be silly enough to have a meeting at Maranello that was inevitably going to end up in the press. It's destabilizing for Red Bull and whatever his future plans might be he's definitely happy and focused on their success for the next couple of years and wouldn't want to disrupt that.

IMO the meeting was about something else completely. I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to have set it up so they could leak it and start all the rumours to destabilize the team.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:47 am 
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Resource restriction agreement... both RBR and Ferrari are against it. May be it is in effort to find common ground?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:06 am 
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kai_ wrote:
IMO the meeting was about something else completely. I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to have set it up so they could leak it and start all the rumours to destabilize the team.


You give Ferrari far more credit than they merit in the devious conspiracy aspect. Ferrari arranges a meeting between their Human Resources department and the head guy at one of their competitors, who conveniently goes along with the dupe, just to get the media sources wagging in the hopes that it destablizes the opposition???? Damn they are a clever lot, and how dumb of Horner to be duped by them as well.

Can these posts get any more ridiculous?
;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:19 am 
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I have no idea as to the purpose of this meeting... no idea any more than any of you... (other than I would BET money against kai's devious conspiracy concept).

What is curious about this report is the Human Resources department meeting. Why that? As someone said, any dealings concerning the hiring of Horner would surely have involved Luca and/or Steffano, the HR department would be the last step in the process, not the first normally. And surely, Horner would not just walk up to HR to submit an application just hoping for a future opening and possible employment.

So, seriously, what purpose would there be in Horner meeting with the HR manager? Do they know each other from the past and it was just a visit? Seems like a reach to me.

The idea of them discussing an engine supplier deal with Ferrari is a reach as well, that they would go through the HR department for that purpose is highly improbable as HR would have nothing to do with the business end of. HR is Human Resources, not materials.

If it were a "package" deal for Newey, Horner and/or Vettel, then surely THAT would have done in a much more secret manner until they were ready to inform the public (ie after the deal was signed and delivered)

Then there is the matter of the timing of the meeting itself. When did it take place for sure? And if it were for Newey's services, then surely it would be awkward for it to take any immediate effect at this stage of development of the two teams cars. It would surely have to be for the year 2014???

So basically, it is a rumor at this point and I don't think we can take it as anything more until we hear differently from a reliable source. Maybe one day there will be a disclosure that will have us nodding our heads in understanding and thinking "THAT is what the story was about back in January"... but for now, I am not putting too much credence in the report.
:)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:04 am 
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Now this is interesting..there can be smoke without any fire...I guess Vettel will be in Ferrari in 2015 with Newey and Horner...but what about Alonso he has to win at-least 1 WDC with Ferrari before he exit...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:00 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
Non mainstream media reported that a meeting took place awhile ago. No information about what it was about, just that Horner was at Maranello. Try not to get too excited.


http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/repor ... d-ferrari/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:44 am 
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But Newey has turned down Ferrari more than that once before. Even if Horner goes that way I can't see Newey following. iirc when he was with McLaren and was approached by Ferrari, he didn't want to go mainly cause he wanted to stay in England.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:14 am 
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minchy wrote:
But Newey has turned down Ferrari more than that once before. Even if Horner goes that way I can't see Newey following. iirc when he was with McLaren and was approached by Ferrari, he didn't want to go mainly cause he wanted to stay in England.

I seem to remember them setting up a base in England specifically for someone who refused to relocate, I thought it was Rory Byrne but now I can't find a reference to it.

I don't think Newey specifically has a problem with working in Italy, but doesn't want a permanent move there. He could still work from England and travel to Maranello regularly, although this would provide extra work overall. He's also not ruled out Ferari completely, although this is probably due to negotiating positions.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:15 am 
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Blake wrote:
kai_ wrote:
IMO the meeting was about something else completely. I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to have set it up so they could leak it and start all the rumours to destabilize the team.


You give Ferrari far more credit than they merit in the devious conspiracy aspect. Ferrari arranges a meeting between their Human Resources department and the head guy at one of their competitors, who conveniently goes along with the dupe, just to get the media sources wagging in the hopes that it destablizes the opposition???? Damn they are a clever lot, and how dumb of Horner to be duped by them as well.

Can these posts get any more ridiculous?
;)

I am not saying the purpose to the meeting was a smokescreen to get Horner to Ferrari to play games; I believe the purpose/substance of the meeting was genuine. But there is almost no other way for the existence of his visit to have gotten back to the press if not for Ferrari leaking it. This was at Maranello, not Horner visiting the Ferrari garage during a Grand Prix weekend. The only possibilities are a media contigent following Horner there, which seems highly improbable, Horner himself leaking it, which doesn't make sense or Ferrari. I see it as perfectly plausible that Ferrari had the meeting at Maranello in the first place to then leak the information.

They have history in trying to destabilise Red Bull over the past 12 months and in playing political games. I don't see any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt or to assume they are not calculating.

The other thing is that to assume that I think only Ferrari would do this is a false assumption. All F1 teams engage in games to various degrees. This thread happens to be about Ferrari and this is something that IMO fits with their behaviour.

What I have said might be extremely cynical but it isn't ridiculous.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:16 am 
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scuderia_stevie wrote:
minchy wrote:
But Newey has turned down Ferrari more than that once before. Even if Horner goes that way I can't see Newey following. iirc when he was with McLaren and was approached by Ferrari, he didn't want to go mainly cause he wanted to stay in England.

I seem to remember them setting up a base in England specifically for someone who refused to relocate, I thought it was Rory Byrne but now I can't find a reference to it.

I don't think Newey specifically has a problem with working in Italy, but doesn't want a permanent move there. He could still work from England and travel to Maranello regularly, although this would provide extra work overall. He's also not ruled out Ferari completely, although this is probably due to negotiating positions.

I think it was Barnard for whom the England base was maintained.

AFAIK it's Newey's wife who doesn't want to live in Italy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:22 am 
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Surely it would only be worthwhile poaching Horner if he came still attached to Mateschitz and Marco Helmet's puppeteering hands.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:48 am 
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It's funny, at first I thought "Woohoo Newey to Ferrari = Greater chance of success for Alonso" but the thought of Newey, Horner and Vettel to Ferrari... I just don't know. Either way it would answer a lot of questions!

Anyway I don't believe the meeting was down to personnel transfers. Most likely RRA or Concorde Agreement talks.

This might seem ludicrous but could it be possible that Horner & co. were checking out the feasibility of a 2014 engine supply deal?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:09 pm 
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kai_ wrote:
scuderia_stevie wrote:
I seem to remember them setting up a base in England specifically for someone who refused to relocate, I thought it was Rory Byrne but now I can't find a reference to it.

I think it was Barnard for whom the England base was maintained.

Ferrari paid for John Barnard to set up a design base in England twice: first in 1987, when he created GTO (Guildford Technical Office), which lasted until the end of 1989, when Barnard quit to move to Benetton; and again in 1993, when he rejoined Ferrari and established FDD (Ferrari Design & Development) in Shalford, Surrey. That lasted until 1997, when Barnard left again and Rory Byrne became Chief Designer.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:46 pm 
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shit i wonder who is going to report something on me going for lunch with another architect from another company yesterday. :-P

relax. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:53 pm 
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If you dig, you'll find a quote from Adrian in which he says he won't go to Ferrari because his wife thinks Italy is a third world country ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:40 pm 
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Discussing the RRA seems likely to be fair


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Chill out guys. They were just there to put down a deposit on a couple of road cars. Ron wouldn't give them a discount on MP4/12c.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:18 pm 
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I can only assume that Vettel said to Ferrari: "Bring Newey and Horner, and you have a deal."

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:27 pm 
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kai_ wrote:
Blake wrote:
kai_ wrote:
IMO the meeting was about something else completely. I wouldn't put it past Ferrari to have set it up so they could leak it and start all the rumours to destabilize the team.


You give Ferrari far more credit than they merit in the devious conspiracy aspect. Ferrari arranges a meeting between their Human Resources department and the head guy at one of their competitors, who conveniently goes along with the dupe, just to get the media sources wagging in the hopes that it destablizes the opposition???? Damn they are a clever lot, and how dumb of Horner to be duped by them as well.

Can these posts get any more ridiculous?
;)

I am not saying the purpose to the meeting was a smokescreen to get Horner to Ferrari to play games; I believe the purpose/substance of the meeting was genuine. But there is almost no other way for the existence of his visit to have gotten back to the press if not for Ferrari leaking it. This was at Maranello, not Horner visiting the Ferrari garage during a Grand Prix weekend. The only possibilities are a media contigent following Horner there, which seems highly improbable, Horner himself leaking it, which doesn't make sense or Ferrari. I see it as perfectly plausible that Ferrari had the meeting at Maranello in the first place to then leak the information.

They have history in trying to destabilise Red Bull over the past 12 months and in playing political games. I don't see any reason to give them the benefit of the doubt or to assume they are not calculating.

The other thing is that to assume that I think only Ferrari would do this is a false assumption. All F1 teams engage in games to various degrees. This thread happens to be about Ferrari and this is something that IMO fits with their behaviour.

What I have said might be extremely cynical but it isn't ridiculous.


IF (and that's a huge IF) this meeting occurred as reported, this is the theory that makes the most sense to me. The timing, having this get into the news just before the start of a new season, isn't the time of year to recruit, or seek employment at another team. But it's the perfect time to plant the seeds of doubt, to attempt to destabilize someone. The only reason I can see Horner seeking a job at a team like Ferrari is that he believes that Dietrich Mateschitz intends to pull the plug on the entire enterprise.

As far as the speculation on Ferrari seeking a dream team, Vettel seems quite happy at Red Bull, Ferrari adores Alonso, and anyways, that's now how Ferrari currently structure their driver lineups. Newey is in the position where he can pick and choose. He's quite rich now, and can pursue whatever he wishes, maybe designing racing yachts.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Has Johnny Cecotto Jnr got any links to Ferrari young drivers?

Young drivers test with FI who were running Bianchi on Fridays on Ferraris behalf and one for Torro Rosso whom of course run Ferrari engines. Now has a seat in Arden not long after Horner who owns Arden goes to Maranello.

A Lot of coincidences.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:40 pm 
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The question is still begged in that scenario, Blinky.... Why would Horner be going along with it? If it was just Ferrari stuff being put out then I could see it... but to involve a top principle from their competition, that doesn't make sense.

Unless you are right in this....
"The only reason I can see Horner seeking a job at a team like Ferrari is that he believes that Dietrich Mateschitz intends to pull the plug on the entire enterprise."

or... Horner is not feeling secure in his position? Even then, surely he would go to Luca first...and HR last.

The more I try to get my head around this, the more likely it seems that is mere rumor...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:59 pm 
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I think it's a nasty rumor Blake. As for Horner, he should feel secure. It's when you're not winning is when you anticipate getting fired. But .. he has captained his team to three consecutive WC and WDC titles. Barring nasty politics, he should have his job for awhile.

If anyone would be knocking on Ferrari's door, how about Brawn?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:06 pm 
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minchy wrote:
But Newey has turned down Ferrari more than that once before. Even if Horner goes that way I can't see Newey following. iirc when he was with McLaren and was approached by Ferrari, he didn't want to go mainly cause he wanted to stay in England.

I think it was his wife that didn't want to live in Italy?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:08 am 
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Blake wrote:
The question is still begged in that scenario, Blinky.... Why would Horner be going along with it? If it was just Ferrari stuff being put out then I could see it... but to involve a top principle from their competition, that doesn't make sense.

Unless you are right in this....
"The only reason I can see Horner seeking a job at a team like Ferrari is that he believes that Dietrich Mateschitz intends to pull the plug on the entire enterprise."

or... Horner is not feeling secure in his position? Even then, surely he would go to Luca first...and HR last.

The more I try to get my head around this, the more likely it seems that is mere rumor...

Horner could well have gone along with it because he has nothing to hide and Red Bull are not easily affected by these rumours.

If the meeting was legitimate it could have been about something else, such as the RRA or the Concorde Agreement. That he supposedly met with the HR Department is something that could very well be made up; he may have met with people in management or the technical area and even if he did meet with the HR Department it could have been about the issues surrounding the incorporation of wages in the RRA.

And if the meeting didn't take place at all then somebody made up the rumour and fed it to the media. It is rare that the media would actually make something up. Twist, yes, mislead, yes, omit information, yes, but make something up, very, very unlikely. The only party with motive to make up this rumour is Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:24 am 
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Chunky wrote:
Chill out guys. They were just there to put down a deposit on a couple of road cars. Ron wouldn't give them a discount on MP4/12c.


I think you got it right. It's not unusual for customers to go to the factory before, during and after their order is made. Ferrari also houses consumer cars for a fee. Many display modals in their museum are privately owned. Who's to say he's not getting his classic Ferrari serviced.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:19 pm 
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All Ferrari need is newey thats all. Fernando and newey in a team will pretty much win everything.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:26 pm 
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I've solved it... Horner was visiting the Ferrari factory to give them a copy of this for their garage...

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