planetf1.com

It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:02 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 am
Posts: 2205
I just stumbled across an interesting piece of history...

In the sixth lap of the 1973 South African Grand Prix, Jackie Stewart allegedly overtook Peter Revson under a yellow flag which was waved following to the third-lap crash of Clay Regazzoni. Whilst Hailwood came to the aid of the Swiss driver engulfed in flames, Stewart passed all cars ahead of him on the track went on to take victory. McLaren & Revson entered a formal protest after the race. The stewards originally agreed there had been a violation and issued a reprimand to the winner (who nevertheless remained the winner), but Stewart and his team appealed that decision and were ultimately found innocent as the overtaking manoeuvre was, according to them, completed before the yellow flag zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlLqlD85IAo#t=8m15s

_________________
2013 PF1 Pick 10 Competition:
- 4 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship leader (post-Austria)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 2234
Location: Perth, Australia
Interesting scenario, but I'll have to assume the stewards were correct. If it was before the yellow flags then there's nothing wrong with it.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 52
The commentator certainly didn't think it was a legal move although maybe he was more upset on the principle of Jackie's actions.

_________________
All-time top 5 drivers:
Jim Clark
Walter Rohrl
Sir Jack Brabham
El Maestro
Dennis Anderson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 2334
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 am
Posts: 2205
SchumieRules wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...


I think the difference in Hailwood's case was that it was race day, and his car was caught up in the shunt and he was out of the race anyway, whereas Senna stopped voluntarily during Friday qualifying... which begs the question...if they (Stewart and co.) were such safety heroes in those days, as has been suggested (well by Jackie himself at least), why didn't others stop? I guess there were points at stake which were considered more important.......

_________________
2013 PF1 Pick 10 Competition:
- 4 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship leader (post-Austria)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
purchville wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...


I think the difference in Hailwood's case was that it was race day, and his car was caught up in the shunt and he was out of the race anyway, whereas Senna stopped voluntarily during Friday qualifying... which begs the question...if they (Stewart and co.) were such safety heroes in those days, as has been suggested (well by Jackie himself at least), why didn't others stop? I guess there were points at stake which were considered more important.......


Hailwood jumped in the fire. To save someone. In them 70's death traps. Can't think of anything more gallant than that. Yet, hardly a mention

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:33 am
Posts: 2205
SchumieRules wrote:
purchville wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...


I think the difference in Hailwood's case was that it was race day, and his car was caught up in the shunt and he was out of the race anyway, whereas Senna stopped voluntarily during Friday qualifying... which begs the question...if they (Stewart and co.) were such safety heroes in those days, as has been suggested (well by Jackie himself at least), why didn't others stop? I guess there were points at stake which were considered more important.......


Hailwood jumped in the fire. To save someone. In them 70's death traps. Can't think of anything more gallant than that. Yet, hardly a mention


Yep, true... Oh well it's been mentioned here now at least....too little too late for that amount of bravery...

_________________
2013 PF1 Pick 10 Competition:
- 4 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship leader (post-Austria)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 2334
Good points raised about Hailwood's bravery that day at Kyalami in 1973. In 1974 Denny Hulme was the first driver on the Revson crash scene at Kyalami, and tried to help, but also hardly got a mention. Imagine the tv news and newspaper front pages if Fangio, Moss, Clark ,Stewart or Senna, Schumacher had stopped to help at a crash scene?

The news media only want to publish what/who SELLS. Who has heard of Hailwood, Patrese, Purley (who tried to right Roger Williamson's car when it was burning at Zandvoort)?

TV/media and the popular fan-base which needs heroes almost as a form of religious worship, have made this the age of the celebrity, the famous. Any others are also-rans (read: 'losers', such an ugly term), which is a shame, because so many very talented, competent people are ignored.

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 8:01 pm
Posts: 854
Most similar case was when Arturo Merzario, Brett Lunger, Guy Edwards and Harald Ertl extracted Lauda from his burning Ferrari at Nurbrurgring in 1976. They saved his life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piFtNVh-JSA

_________________
I'm a racing driver. Always was, always will be.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
POBRatings wrote:
Good points raised about Hailwood's bravery that day at Kyalami in 1973. In 1974 Denny Hulme was the first driver on the Revson crash scene at Kyalami, and tried to help, but also hardly got a mention. Imagine the tv news and newspaper front pages if Fangio, Moss, Clark ,Stewart or Senna, Schumacher had stopped to help at a crash scene?

The news media only want to publish what/who SELLS. Who has heard of Hailwood, Patrese, Purley (who tried to right Roger Williamson's car when it was burning at Zandvoort)?

TV/media and the popular fan-base which needs heroes almost as a form of religious worship, have made this the age of the celebrity, the famous. Any others are also-rans (read: 'losers', such an ugly term), which is a shame, because so many very talented, competent people are ignored.


Purley was a well documented incident. I agree with the rest

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


And of course the race-starter not bothering to check if the midfield had actually reached their grid-slots.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
SchumieRules wrote:
purchville wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...


I think the difference in Hailwood's case was that it was race day, and his car was caught up in the shunt and he was out of the race anyway, whereas Senna stopped voluntarily during Friday qualifying... which begs the question...if they (Stewart and co.) were such safety heroes in those days, as has been suggested (well by Jackie himself at least), why didn't others stop? I guess there were points at stake which were considered more important.......


Hailwood jumped in the fire. To save someone. In them 70's death traps. Can't think of anything more gallant than that. Yet, hardly a mention


According to wikipedia he got the George Medal.

Also according to wikipedia, Regazzoni (67) and Hailwood (41) both died in car accidents involving lorries. To be fair probably half of fatal car accidents involve lorries but still. Weird.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:14 am
Posts: 520
Location: Penrith Station UK
SchumieRules wrote:
purchville wrote:
SchumieRules wrote:
POBRatings wrote:
If it had been a backmarker, and not Jackie Stewart, I wonder if the stewards' decision would have been the same?

Human nature to favour fame/celebrities. Thinking of Fangio's two wins gained after an illegal pitstop (1954 Argentina) and a push-start (1956 Argentina), plus Patrese's totally unfairly getting blamed/banned for the 1978 Monza crash, because two famous personalities, Chapman and Hunt, decided Ricardo was to blame. It was actually the track design that caused the multi-car crash, after which Peterson died. Some of Schumacher's and Ferrari's doings have also been questionably handled/decided on.


Very true.

For example, we all have heard people praising Senna stopping his car to aid Comas, but I had never heard of Hailwood's case (first saw it in this video), getting himself on fire while trying to help the other driver...


I think the difference in Hailwood's case was that it was race day, and his car was caught up in the shunt and he was out of the race anyway, whereas Senna stopped voluntarily during Friday qualifying... which begs the question...if they (Stewart and co.) were such safety heroes in those days, as has been suggested (well by Jackie himself at least), why didn't others stop? I guess there were points at stake which were considered more important.......


Hailwood jumped in the fire. To save someone. In them 70's death traps. Can't think of anything more gallant than that. Yet, hardly a mention


In fact it was a big issue at the time that was much in the news. Hailwood had a massive reputation from when he was a motorcyclist, and that event only added to it. He was the sort of person who wouldn't have hesitated anyway, and he was presented with a medal for it.

Peterson died from an embolism in hospital, which should have been avoidable. So many stupid things happened at race events in those days, of which Roger Williamson was the worst I can remember.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 3965
sixwheeler wrote:

In fact it was a big issue at the time that was much in the news. Hailwood had a massive reputation from when he was a motorcyclist, and that event only added to it. He was the sort of person who wouldn't have hesitated anyway, and he was presented with a medal for it.

Peterson died from an embolism in hospital, which should have been avoidable. So many stupid things happened at race events in those days, of which Roger Williamson was the worst I can remember.


Apologies, I should have been more specific, I meant nowadays. People remember a few selected incidents, but other noteworthy are often neglected.

_________________
ΜΣ...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: simonr23, ynot22 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group