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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:57 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If they have covered it, I am very surprised Lotus didn't. what benefit would a step bring over the smoother nose.

James Allison said that a vanity panel added extra weight and raised the center of gravity.

I'm not saying that argument makes sense (because a panel would be a few grams) but that was his justification.



You would think though the panel would give a smoother air flow.

Quick mock up not perfect due to the angles but gives an idea.
Image

And damn I just realised I forgot to extend one line. :blush: :blush: You may all get a straight edge and a felt tip pen out. :lol:

I agree, however I expect teams to get quite inventive with the vanity panel as it has been quickly shoehorned into the regulations and consequently there will probably be a lot of loopholes they can exploit with it. This is probably why the Lotus launched without one.


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:59 pm 
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I'm actually disappointed. The car looks as similar to last years car as the e21 does to its predecessor. I want to see something new and crazy. Maybe m expectations are to high. Lol

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:02 pm 
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daytona81 wrote:
I'm actually disappointed. The car looks as similar to last years car as the e21 does to its predecessor. I want to see something new and crazy. Maybe m expectations are to high. Lol



If it's true and it looks like it about the high chassis. Then the MP4-28is nothing like the MP4-27.

Red Bull exhaust, Driveshaft covered by the wishbone, High Chassis, Pull Rod front. Fairly big changes.

Just hope McLaren have bitten off more than they can chew by making so many changes and don't end up like Ferrari last year trying to understand the car.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:10 pm 
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So, here you are:

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:

The difference being McLaren have a wind tunnel which actually works. The problems Ferrari had were they couldn't understand why the wind tunnel measurements and the on track results didn't match up.



They also had hassles understanding the pull rod front and getting it setup.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:23 pm 
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I was very curious to see if McLaren's livery would change some with the changes since last year's team. So in that regard, its a bit of a disappointment, but a very little one.

But again, it looks incredible IMO (and I'm not really a fan of McLaren), very sleek, very fast. It will be interesting to compare more of the 2013 in the manner Johnston showed the 2012 McLaren and Red Bull to the 2013 McLaren profile. Of course, there are other views, like from straight on or above, but still interesting.

As far as the livery goes, it might be seeming a bit dated now that its been in place as long as it has... but I will say, seeing it under a clear blue sunny sky in Austin, it made a real impression on me with its chrome-like reflective quality. I don't think pictures or TV can do justice to just how it looks under those conditions.

Hopefully there will be enough tweeks to the other liveries up and down the grid that it won't look identical to 2012. But I can't say I'm very disappointed to see McLaren among the unchanged. (I've got to add, I really think the additional red on the Lotus is to leave the team a place holder if it can get its Honeywell sponsorship done sometime between now and the start of the season.)


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Has someone added the colouring on the front of the car on the top image to show the difference??

As it doesnt match the rest of the car at all

Or is it the paint job


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:24 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
Some more images for the non-beleavers:

Image

Image

(all from Ted Kravitz)



I don't get why McLaren or any other F1 team would stick to the Step nose if they are going to use a vanity panel on there being that the most difficult aspect to building a great car is keeping weight down and making a step nose and then making a panel to sit over it just adds weight. there is absolutely no point to it and I think it has to be one of the absolute most moronic things ever done in F1. The very tip of the nose still has to adhere to a maximum height so why not just build the entire nose according to the outer most final shape and leave the stupid step out altogether?

I hope for 2014 they make some provisions for front end aero to limit the noses to sit much lower so we lose the hideous step altogether. There are other ways to harvest all this air into the bottom of the cars without resorting to raising the nose to 1200 feet. The noses from 2005 - 2008 were perfectly fine but some of the best looking F1 cars of all time were from the early 90's. This one isn't bad looking but Last years car was much better looking up front. Personally I think McLaren copped out on this raised nose trend of the day and should have used the legendary might of their empire to figure out a better way to squeeze more speed over last years car which was already the class of the field when it held together for Lewis.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:24 pm 
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The difference in COG of pullrod vs. push negates the addition of the high weight of the nose and modesty panel. For sure all teams with steps will test with and without the cover. What I find most interesting is that they have no turning vanes under their high nose - are they not going to? have they just not put them on yet? And the floor. The raised outboard sections are very new, are they going for a skirt-like effect? I'm kind of surprised actually that they'd debut the car with these. The back section makes no sense at all, and is probably just for the launch, so why show your new thing on the sides? Maybe they want to trick others :)

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:31 pm 
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The rules are changing for 2012 so we shouldn't see the step Incubus. The tip has to be much lower come 2014.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:45 pm 
Johnston wrote:
If they have covered it, I am very surprised Lotus didn't. what benefit would a step bring over the smoother nose.


The crash structure of the nose has to respect the height regulations. The modesty panel does not have to.
Image

There is an aerodynamic advantage with the modesty panel, less drag. We may see the modesty panel for high speed tracks, and without in such places as Monaco.


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
The rules are changing for 2012 so we shouldn't see the step Incubus. The tip has to be much lower come 2014.

I know but I want them to bring it WAAAAAAAY down like they used to be, the way an F1 car should look.

I mean look at these front ends:

Image

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/antsphoto/tags/1991/

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:51 pm 
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Incubus you need to do some technical reading. The designers aren't morons. The step is there because they want to exploit the flow of air under the nose. If you lift the nose and chassis as high as the rules permit (which are two different heights, hence the step) you get as much air flow underneath as possible, and then you have the ability to manipulate that air into the sidepods, around them, and over them, to create more downforce and rear grip. You put big undercuts under the sidepods to match, and you have much greater control of where that air goes, which means you can use it over the different parts of the rear end to accomplish different goals, one of which is using downwash to help manipulate the flow of exhaust gasses.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If they have covered it, I am very surprised Lotus didn't. what benefit would a step bring over the smoother nose.


The crash structure of the nose has to respect the height regulations. The modesty panel does not have to.
Image

There is an aerodynamic advantage with the modesty panel, less drag. We may see the modesty panel for high speed tracks, and without in such places as Monaco.



What I meant before was if the Line beside the mobil sticker was the modesty panel then the nose would be coming up to meet the panel. So it would raise the height of the nose above the regs. the modest panel would have to come down to meet the nose (Crash structure) so the line at the top couldn't be the panel (If you know what I mean)

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Aerodynamically and visually we a pretty much back to 2011 regulations then?

Modesty panel can be used to create that structure although underneath the real carbon structure will look completely different and rather blunt shaped to conform.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:57 pm 
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How an F1 car "should" look is whatever the current rules allow to make it the fastest, most reliable, easy to drive, and easy to work. If you want to see pretty cars, watch GT racing.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:58 pm 
I agree, I just thought that reflection, or scratch or whatever was a sign. But it does not match up to where the modesty panel would meet the nose crash structure.


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Johnston wrote:
If they have covered it, I am very surprised Lotus didn't. what benefit would a step bring over the smoother nose.


The crash structure of the nose has to respect the height regulations. The modesty panel does not have to.
Image

There is an aerodynamic advantage with the modesty panel, less drag. We may see the modesty panel for high speed tracks, and without in such places as Monaco.


That picture is a little misleading as the uprights for the front wing would mount to the actual nose structure and certainly not the modesty panel which would be a weak lightweight hollow structure.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
The difference being McLaren have a wind tunnel which actually works. The problems Ferrari had were they couldn't understand why the wind tunnel measurements and the on track results didn't match up.


Quote:
A lot of this work was done in the Toyota wind tunnel, which they have had to share with Ferrari – so the correlation will be the same as Ferrari’s correlation. It is a very good tunnel. McLaren has been subletting its own tunnel to Marussia and is believe to be building a new one. But it will be interesting to compare this McLaren with the Ferrari launched tomorrow, as uniquely they were designed in the same tunnel


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/01/f ... w-mclaren/

Ferrari and Macca sharing a wind tunnel.. This could get interesting :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:08 pm 
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Viagra - redesigning F1 noses since 2013


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Its a wonder Toyota has any time to work on its own TS03

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:27 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Incubus you need to do some technical reading. The designers aren't morons. The step is there because they want to exploit the flow of air under the nose. If you lift the nose and chassis as high as the rules permit (which are two different heights, hence the step) you get as much air flow underneath as possible, and then you have the ability to manipulate that air into the sidepods, around them, and over them, to create more downforce and rear grip. You put big undercuts under the sidepods to match, and you have much greater control of where that air goes, which means you can use it over the different parts of the rear end to accomplish different goals, one of which is using downwash to help manipulate the flow of exhaust gasses.

Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce.

I realize that F1 is a business of function over form but to what point? Additionally the step in the nose is contradictory to all things efficient when it comes to aero so some of the benefit of the raised nose is nullified by the air dam the step creates on top. With aero you want smooth flowing elements in order to minimize turbulence as turbulence leads to instability, which when it makes its way further down the line disrupts flow in many other areas. Either way I hope the 2014 changes means a return to beautiful cars that go fast because quite frankly no would enjoy watching this, even if it goes 500MPH flat out on every track:

Image

At least I know I won't.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:49 pm 
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the incubus wrote:
Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce.

I realize that F1 is a business of function over form but to what point? Additionally the step in the nose is contradictory to all things efficient when it comes to aero so some of the benefit of the raised nose is nullified by the air dam the step creates on top. With aero you want smooth flowing elements in order to minimize turbulence as turbulence leads to instability, which when it makes its way further down the line disrupts flow in many other areas. Either way I hope the 2014 changes means a return to beautiful cars that go fast because quite frankly no would enjoy watching this, even if it goes 500MPH flat out on every track:

Image

At least I know I won't.

If you understood how the high noses work, you wouldn't say any of those things. Low noses create a completely different path and mass of air at different velocity than high noses, so no, they can't do everything the same. The step in the nose isn't necessarily a huge hit to the flow over it. By manipulating the shape of the leading end of the chassis, you can control how the air stays attached to its flat top all the way to the cockpit, and making it a shorter distance helps too. The RB8 for example had that letter box slot, which gave the leading edge of the top of the step a curvature capable of helping to keep the air attached to the chassis. If any negatives of the step were not outweighed by the benefits, everyone would run low noses. Do you think they're all just purposely making the cars "ugly"? Why would they do that?

I enjoy watching how a team can manipulate its machinery to make it perform better for its drivers. I really don't care what shape it comes in, because to me, anything demonstrating the speed and cornering ability that F1 cars do is absolutely beautiful. Its the ability to do it, not the shape it does it in.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:07 pm 
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I agree with both of you, there is nothing wrong in liking a beautiful car and of course the fastest possible solution is the most beautiful in a racing sense. Both together are classics.

Obviously somebody among the rule makers and teams value aesthetics, hence the introduction of the modesty plate.

Would you want the driver enclosed if it made the car go a second a lap quicker?
Would you want the wheels enclosed if it made the car go a second a lap quicker? For me both a certain no.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:18 pm 
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I feel a bit sorry for Lewis, this car looks like it will be such a beast. Mclaren are also supremely confident, saying that it will be much better than the MP4-27 at the end of last season. Perez and Jenson are both consistent drivers, hopefully they will get some good wins and maybe constructors or driver's championship.

Mclaren have not had a cc for many years now, it would be nice to see them get one on their anniversary.


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:27 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
If you understood how the high noses work, you wouldn't say any of those things. Low noses create a completely different path and mass of air at different velocity than high noses, so no, they can't do everything the same. The step in the nose isn't necessarily a huge hit to the flow over it. By manipulating the shape of the leading end of the chassis, you can control how the air stays attached to its flat top all the way to the cockpit, and making it a shorter distance helps too. The RB8 for example had that letter box slot, which gave the leading edge of the top of the step a curvature capable of helping to keep the air attached to the chassis. If any negatives of the step were not outweighed by the benefits, everyone would run low noses. Do you think they're all just purposely making the cars "ugly"? Why would they do that?

I enjoy watching how a team can manipulate its machinery to make it perform better for its drivers. I really don't care what shape it comes in, because to me, anything demonstrating the speed and cornering ability that F1 cars do is absolutely beautiful. Its the ability to do it, not the shape it does it in.



And yet Tim Goss had this to say:

As well as pursuing a different path from Lotus on the passive double DRS, McLaren has elected to race with a 'vanity panel' covering a stepped nose on its 2013 car.

Goss was adamant that smoothing the airflow in that area of the car was more of an advantage than the disadvantage of extra weight on the car, which is why Lotus has opted not to race it.

"Aerodynamically you would not put a step on the top surface of the nose through choice, it is an artifact of the regulations," said Goss. "So we don't...

"It is a lightweight structural cover. There is no structural significance at all, so it weighs very little.

"I think James [Allison, Lotus technical director] left it quite open as to whether they would do something.

"If we look aerodynamically at the step on the nose then, to be honest, it is not very significant but you will pull a few minor losses off it. You would not do it [have a stepped nose] out of choice, so we don't."


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105347


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Car launch confidence is completely artificial. They may believe they have a really strong car - but finishing order is relative to what everyone else has built, and they don't know what that is yet. No reason for Lewis to feel anything just yet.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:32 pm 
the incubus wrote:
Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce


Incorrect, the upper has everything to do with the lower part. Because all Formula One car designers want as much flow under the nose, the top of the nose is so high. Understand this, that the shape of the top of the nose is determined by what is happening under the nose. Additionally, in 2012 McLaren attempted to put their nose a low as possible, they had to revise it mid-season with that weird kink and raise it a bit, and the 2013 car is a statement that you can wish to have a low nose, but you have to have it as high as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Just because the "Current Trend" is running a very high nose for the benefits of air flow, it's only a matter of time before someone else discovers the next best thing and the step-nose approach, like most everything before it, will be a thing of the past. Hopefully a return to something that is as beautiful as it is fast. I am a designer and production specialist and it is my job to make things as attractive to the eye as possible while keeping it fully functional. In my experience, there is almost always a way to find a good balance. This on the other hand was a copout and the engineers could have done a much better job than to simply put a step in the nose. The FIA did what they are supposed to do in creating new regulations in the favor of safety and it is up to the engineers and aerodynamicists to figure out a way to make the most efficient designs but that doesn't have to come at the expense of aesthetics.

I'm a stickler for design and see things in products that irk me to no end and I can never bring myself to look past them. For instance the 2008 Honda Civics…

For whatever reason Honda chose to keep the mirrors on their 2-Door model where they have been for the last 30 years on all their civics, right at the front corner of the window panel which is clean, neat and just looks all kinds of right. On the 4-door model however, they slapped the damn things onto the doors themselves and they sit right dead smack on the longitudinal line of the car and ruin it's flow entirely. Upon seeing this I immediately went to the service manage and asked if he could bring out a replacement mirror for the 2-Door model and he did. I went over to the 4-door model and placed the mirror in the window panel in the damn thing fit perfectly. Since I have kids I had to get 4-door car but because of the mirrors, for the first time ever I went with something that wasn't a honda. Now they've since revised the model and both models have the mirrors on the doors. It might be OCD to some but for me that is a total deal breaker that I cannot get over.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Lojik wrote:


And yet Tim Goss had this to say:

As well as pursuing a different path from Lotus on the passive double DRS, McLaren has elected to race with a 'vanity panel' covering a stepped nose on its 2013 car.

Goss was adamant that smoothing the airflow in that area of the car was more of an advantage than the disadvantage of extra weight on the car, which is why Lotus has opted not to race it.

"Aerodynamically you would not put a step on the top surface of the nose through choice, it is an artifact of the regulations," said Goss. "So we don't...

"It is a lightweight structural cover. There is no structural significance at all, so it weighs very little.

"I think James [Allison, Lotus technical director] left it quite open as to whether they would do something.

"If we look aerodynamically at the step on the nose then, to be honest, it is not very significant but you will pull a few minor losses off it. You would not do it [have a stepped nose] out of choice, so we don't."


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105347

He's talking about the actual step, not the high nose. They had the option of keeping the low nose like last year, and decided the high nose has more benefits for them. They have chosen not to manipulate the step itself, and use the panel to minimize losses, just as some teams chose to manipulate the step last year and some chose to just make it as smooth as possible. If they could, they would make the nose as high as the chassis and eliminate the step while still reaping the benefits of the air flow underneath.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:36 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Car launch confidence is completely artificial. They may believe they have a really strong car - but finishing order is relative to what everyone else has built, and they don't know what that is yet. No reason for Lewis to feel anything just yet.



But Lewis does ;)

He will have an idea how the Macca was heading from the Sim before he signed and now he will have seen the Merc and drove their sim.

Whether his mood is oh fairy cakes or happy days we can only guess. But he is certainly in a better place to judge than us.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Also, the "trend" of high noses is a product of the rest of the aero regulations and tires. If and when the tires, exhaust rules, diffuser, front and rear wing, brake duct, and floor regulations all change, then a different solution might be better. Its not a social thing - its not like xyz celebrity is wearing skinny jeans so I'm going to wear skinny jeans - its the regulations dictating the available solutions and shapes.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce


Incorrect, the upper has everything to do with the lower part. Because all Formula One car designers want as much flow under the nose, the top of the nose is so high. Understand this, that the shape of the top of the nose is determined by what is happening under the nose. Additionally, in 2012 McLaren attempted to put their nose a low as possible, they had to revise it mid-season with that weird kink and raise it a bit, and the 2013 car is a statement that you can wish to have a low nose, but you have to have it as high as possible.

Wanting and having are two different things.

I disagree. The 2013 car shows that you can have a raised nose and still keep it attractive and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what's going on underneath. This vanity plate could have been developed in ALL of last years cars on the upper end whilst not changing a thing underneath. So long as structurally the interior adheres to the rules, nothing prevents them from making it slick.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Car launch confidence is completely artificial. They may believe they have a really strong car - but finishing order is relative to what everyone else has built, and they don't know what that is yet. No reason for Lewis to feel anything just yet.



But Lewis does ;)

He will have an idea how the Macca was heading from the Sim before he signed and now he will have seen the Merc and drove their sim.

Whether his mood is oh fairy cakes or happy days we can only guess. But he is certainly in a better place to judge than us.

Not really. Look at the RB8. A month before the season the car was headed in a completely different direction than it eventually went. If Mark or Seb had made a team change, their impression of the RBR car would be completely different from what actually turned up to race.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:43 pm 
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Thats because what Newey had planned was illegal. Macca don't tend to take those risks.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:44 pm 
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the incubus wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
the incubus wrote:
Don't need to read anymore as I already know all of this. The issue is that the upper has NOTHING to do with the lower and the noses can be designed so they are more aesthetically pleasing whilst not losing any of the potency of the raised front end. Additionally, the noses can be designed to sit lower and STILL harness all of that air for downforce


Incorrect, the upper has everything to do with the lower part. Because all Formula One car designers want as much flow under the nose, the top of the nose is so high. Understand this, that the shape of the top of the nose is determined by what is happening under the nose. Additionally, in 2012 McLaren attempted to put their nose a low as possible, they had to revise it mid-season with that weird kink and raise it a bit, and the 2013 car is a statement that you can wish to have a low nose, but you have to have it as high as possible.

Wanting and having are two different things.

I disagree. The 2013 car shows that you can have a raised nose and still keep it attractive and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what's going on underneath. This vanity plate could have been developed in ALL of last years cars on the upper end whilst not changing a thing underneath. So long as structurally the interior adheres to the rules, nothing prevents them from making it slick.

The panel was not legal last year. You couldn't have any part of the car above the max height for the nose above the nose. As with the difference we see in thinking from Lotus and McLaren, whether the shape of the actual step is worth covering up will depend on the team and the rest of the car. Putting more weight on top is less of a hit to the McLaren because the pullrod suspension lowers much of the weight in the front compared to the pushrod setup on the Lotus. You must look at what is underneath, not just the shape.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:48 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Also, the "trend" of high noses is a product of the rest of the aero regulations and tires. If and when the tires, exhaust rules, diffuser, front and rear wing, brake duct, and floor regulations all change, then a different solution might be better. Its not a social thing - its not like xyz celebrity is wearing skinny jeans so I'm going to wear skinny jeans - its the regulations dictating the available solutions and shapes.

Nope. As the saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat. The fact is that someone was thinking outside the box and discovered something that improved aero and the rest of the sheep followed. However, the FIA saw the trend exaggerating things to a point where safety was being compromised and installed limitations for all to abide by. Coanda for example was another way of improving aero that was discovered by Sauber and everyone followed suit. there is absolutely NOTHING that says a higher nose "IS" the best way in accordance to the current regs and I'd bet there are numerous ways to achieve the same effect or better utilizing a lower slung nose, but it takes some experimentation and luck. Last year the McLaren was good from the opening round and it had the lowest nose of the field. They however experimented with a slightly raised nose and felt that it improved performance and stuck with it, but I didn't notice much of a difference. In Lewis' hands the car was fast all year long and actually looked more dominant in its A spec IMHO. Perhaps that's due to others catching up in the development race as the year wore on, but the car was really good either way which is telling that the raised nose is not the absolute best solution.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Thats because what Newey had planned was illegal. Macca don't tend to take those risks.

It was legal until the FIA decided it wasnt, same as everything else they do! lol

Bottom line is tho that the design will change a lot between what Lewis last saw and what will race, or even what we see today and what will race. He also isn't looking at today's photos and gaining some in depth understanding of how the McLaren will work. The designers at Merc will be looking at it that way, but does Lewis have their understanding of aero and design? Probably not. If Lewis is smart, he and everyone else, will know there's no point in crazy analysis of a launch car, and certainly no point in being discouraged by it. Especially if Ross is hiding some quadruple DRS reverse double blown triple floating diffuser.

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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:52 pm 
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I think that the main idea behind the high nose is to give the neutral zone in the middle of the wing an effective angle of attack so it will create downforce. This would also give a lower pressure on the underside on the wing and thus encourage more air under the wing. As most have said, it is more important to have this and pay the price of working the flow over step. The modesty panel gives the best of both.


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 Post subject: Re: McLaren MP4-28
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:55 pm 
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pyratheon141 wrote:
etchedchaos wrote:
Where's the MP4-28, that's the MP4-27.


Are you joking.. its completely different!!


Are YOU joking? completely different?!

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