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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:12 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
Volantary wrote:
ashley313 wrote:
Back and midfield are going to be scary with so many noobs. Chilton, GvdG, Bottas, Razia, Gutierrez maybe Bianchi. Only 2nd year for Vergne, Pic. Third(ish) year for Perez, di Resta, Hulk, Pasta, Rogro. Its hard to believe people like Seb and Lewis are veterans now.


To be honest I'm not even thinking of the likes of Maldonado, Hulkenberg and Perez as newbies now! Which is bad, because they are and should still be given some leeway (except for Pastor, he can be a class A pillock) when they balls up. But the Hulk is now a shoe-in for a top seat, Perez & Grosjean are already there. Button and Webber don't have long left and Alonso & Massa won't be much further behind. This would leave Rosberg as the most experienced driver by a year, then Hamilton and his Vettelness.

Trivia: which season after 1970 (before that it's kinda limited by the start of F1)'s most experienced driver had the least starts? If Button, Alonso, Webber and Massa retire within 3 years Rosberg will be most experienced with 10 seasons. Doubt that'll happen, Button and Alonso will probably go on until they're 40 but it could do.

Don't forget Kimi.


Bum. My bad. He debuted in 2001 along with Alonso though so I'd guess they'd both go at roughly the same time.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:15 pm 
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froze wrote:
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Caterham hiring GVDG has made me lose all respect for them. Petrov was the obvious choice having driven for them for a year and showed up Heikki, as well as earning them their 10th place in the last race of 2012. While he doesn't seem to come with as much sponsorship as he used to, I think he still had some to offer. Together with Pic who seems pretty quick, all they have to do is provide a reasonable car and I'm confident that pairing can maximise it. If they're in THAT much trouble that they need to hire a fairly average GP2 driver Fernandes should stop mucking about sponsoring lower formulae and put some money into his F1 team. If they disappear from the grid I will not miss them.

Likewise. Seems like Caterham are getting a lot of negative feedback on their facebook page and losing likes rapidly. As a Kovalainen supporter, I wanted to believe that he'd get the seat, but I would've understood if they'd chosen Petrov instead. As you said, Petrov did secure them the 10th in WCC and it was my understanding that he could've brought in some money too, which wouldn't have been the case with Kovalainen. GVDG on the other hand seems like a very strange choice and a bad one. I don't mean this with any disrespect to him, I'm sure he's a perfectly respectable racer and a nice guy, but let's face it, that seat wasn't given to him by merit.


He was 2 tenths faster than Petrov in FP1 in Brazil but 8 tenths slower than Heikki in FP1 in Korea & 2 tenths slower in India. FP is FP of course and I'd guess he was just gunning for times in Brazil while Petrov was actually doing work. So while not entirely off the pace there is nothing there to suggest he'd perform well in F1, unlike with Bottas, Di Resta & Hulk (on his year off) who regularly impressed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Volantary wrote:
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If Grosjean is the hopeless case some think he is, Valsecchi might be in the best position of all of the above mentioned guys, with the likely promotion from Lotus' 3rd driver to RoGro's seat sometime during the season. The others are in back marker or definite midfield cars, while Valsecchi would be dropped into a car that should be competing for podiums and wins.

(Though my hunch is Grosjean will cut down on the bad, at least enough to maintain his seat for the full season... but as gambles go, from Valsecchi's perspective it might be a good gamble... less certainty than the others with guaranteed seats on the opening grid in lesser cars, but with more potential to make a splash in a very good car if things break wrong for Grosjean, and right for Valsecchi.)

As we saw last year in Monza, it's not very easy to jump in the car in the middle of the season with little to no experience. Not even a points finish is guaranteed even if the car is competitive. Sure, maybe JDA is not the best of the best, but I wouldn't say he's the worst either and he did have more experience than Valsecchi would have. Anyone jumping in on the fly is going to have tough time, so to speak. Grosjean's going to have to cause some serious incidents if he's to be replaced in the middle of the season.


D'Ambrosio showed he's good enough to be in F1 from his year at Virgin, I don't put his failure to score points down to him at all. As you say, it's a big ask to come in mid way through a season having barely driven the car.

Caterham hiring GVDG has made me lose all respect for them. Petrov was the obvious choice having driven for them for a year and showed up Heikki, as well as earning them their 10th place in the last race of 2012. While he doesn't seem to come with as much sponsorship as he used to, I think he still had some to offer. Together with Pic who seems pretty quick, all they have to do is provide a reasonable car and I'm confident that pairing can maximise it. If they're in THAT much trouble that they need to hire a fairly average GP2 driver Fernandes should stop mucking about sponsoring lower formulae and put some money into his F1 team. If they disappear from the grid I will not miss them.

Having said this, Marussia should gun for Petrov now. And if Petrov has any sense he'd try to get in there too. Chilton seemed fairly impressive in GP2 (more so than VDG anyway) and there are worse people to learn from than Petrov. Of course it opens the door wide open to Russian sponsors too.

officially its still vacant but razia did an interview and has also said becoming an f1 driver is a dream come true and that he will be at marussia for 2013.... Seems all but certain unless he has jumped the gun.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:21 pm 
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I still feel half a season in the 2013 Lotus is a better choice than a full season in a Caterham or Marussia at this point.

Like I say its a risk, but perhaps with greater rewards, and over a 6-8 race stretch I'd expect a good driver will start to show some results that might not be as easy in a 1-off situation like D'Ambrosio was put in. (Again, I'll qualify it as that I don't believe Grosjean will end up losing his seat. I think he either has to have some incident so collassally stupid, maybe even take out Kimi in the process, or just be unable to provide points while Kimi's scoring top 4 finishes each race to the point that its clear Romain is completely failing to deliver, say on the scale that by the halfway point, Kimi's around 100 points or more and Romain is languishing around 10 points, before he'd lose the seat in season.)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:04 pm 
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froze wrote:
Volantary wrote:
Caterham hiring GVDG has made me lose all respect for them. Petrov was the obvious choice having driven for them for a year and showed up Heikki, as well as earning them their 10th place in the last race of 2012. While he doesn't seem to come with as much sponsorship as he used to, I think he still had some to offer. Together with Pic who seems pretty quick, all they have to do is provide a reasonable car and I'm confident that pairing can maximise it. If they're in THAT much trouble that they need to hire a fairly average GP2 driver Fernandes should stop mucking about sponsoring lower formulae and put some money into his F1 team. If they disappear from the grid I will not miss them.

Likewise. Seems like Caterham are getting a lot of negative feedback on their facebook page and losing likes rapidly. As a Kovalainen supporter, I wanted to believe that he'd get the seat, but I would've understood if they'd chosen Petrov instead. As you said, Petrov did secure them the 10th in WCC and it was my understanding that he could've brought in some money too, which wouldn't have been the case with Kovalainen. GVDG on the other hand seems like a very strange choice and a bad one. I don't mean this with any disrespect to him, I'm sure he's a perfectly respectable racer and a nice guy, but let's face it, that seat wasn't given to him by merit.


I won't miss Kova or Petrov but Van der Garde thx his seat because he has been with Caterham as test driver and race driver in GP2. The guy won Formula Renault 3.5 back in 2008 so he is not bad. However finishing 5th and 6th in GP2 given his age is nothing to write home about.
If all teams are going to back a driver in a lower series and take them on at a latter phase no matter the results I wonder what is still the purpose of racing in those series?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Amon wrote:
froze wrote:
Volantary wrote:
Caterham hiring GVDG has made me lose all respect for them. Petrov was the obvious choice having driven for them for a year and showed up Heikki, as well as earning them their 10th place in the last race of 2012. While he doesn't seem to come with as much sponsorship as he used to, I think he still had some to offer. Together with Pic who seems pretty quick, all they have to do is provide a reasonable car and I'm confident that pairing can maximise it. If they're in THAT much trouble that they need to hire a fairly average GP2 driver Fernandes should stop mucking about sponsoring lower formulae and put some money into his F1 team. If they disappear from the grid I will not miss them.

Likewise. Seems like Caterham are getting a lot of negative feedback on their facebook page and losing likes rapidly. As a Kovalainen supporter, I wanted to believe that he'd get the seat, but I would've understood if they'd chosen Petrov instead. As you said, Petrov did secure them the 10th in WCC and it was my understanding that he could've brought in some money too, which wouldn't have been the case with Kovalainen. GVDG on the other hand seems like a very strange choice and a bad one. I don't mean this with any disrespect to him, I'm sure he's a perfectly respectable racer and a nice guy, but let's face it, that seat wasn't given to him by merit.


I won't miss Kova or Petrov but Van der Garde thx his seat because he has been with Caterham as test driver and race driver in GP2. The guy won Formula Renault 3.5 back in 2008 so he is not bad. However finishing 5th and 6th in GP2 given his age is nothing to write home about.
If all teams are going to back a driver in a lower series and take them on at a latter phase no matter the results I wonder what is still the purpose of racing in those series?

He's only going to a back marker team though to prop up their finances, neither will achieve very much due to lack of performance on both their parts

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Well, at least he's driving, he's gonna be seen on Sunday, that's one step forward. He couldn't have gotten a better seat anyway, given the current pilots distribution. And let's not forget that a certain German entered the sport mid-nineties without bashing every lower formula he's been into, but turned to be one hell of a racer...who knows if this Dutch won't make a good impression?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Actually the last time I remember a substitute driver scoring points was a certain Vettel in USA 2007 and he didn't have any prior race experience at all. Also in qualy he was constantly only a few tenths off his teammate Heidfeld. Has there been any occasion since that?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:20 pm 
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froze wrote:
Actually the last time I remember a substitute driver scoring points was a certain Vettel in USA 2007 and he didn't have any prior race experience at all. Also in qualy he was constantly only a few tenths off his teammate Heidfeld. Has there been any occasion since that?

Can't think of any that good since.

Kobayashi had an impressive start - one place shy of points in Brazil, 6th place in Abu Dhabi.

In 3 races quick Nick scored as many points as de la Rosa had in 14 races back in 2010.

Bob was disqualified from 7th place on his debut at Hungary '06 and was on the podium 2 races later.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Difficult to look past Kobayashi for that question. Some impressive, if extremely aggressive, racing against established big guns and a points finish in his 2 races for the team, with only 2 practice sessions at the weekend beforehand and a small amount of pre-season testing.

Bruno Senna scored 2 points in 2011 through blind luck and keeping it on the track.

There was a certain T Glock in 2004 who managed to score a point on his debut after some DSQs. And of course Super Pedro in 2006 who got a podium and quite a few points finishes.

There are far more examples of substitutes turning out to be terrible though, see Liuzzi, Fisi and Badoer in 2009.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:56 pm 
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True...I still remember a fan's big poster " my grandma is faster than Luca in a Ferrari" or something like that.

Kobayashi's aggressiveness appears to be actually his low-point, as he does not know when to stop. A little bit like Maldonado, he could have gotten better results this season had he backed away. But, that's the way it is. At this point, it will be nothing short of a miracle if he manages to get one of the 3 remaining race seats.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:00 am 
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ATM2 wrote:
Kobayashi's aggressiveness appears to be actually his low-point, as he does not know when to stop. A little bit like Maldonado, he could have gotten better results this season had he backed away. But, that's the way it is. At this point, it will be nothing short of a miracle if he manages to get one of the 3 remaining race seats.

Afraid I don't agree. Although wild and a bit adventurous, Kobayashi usually kept it clean. Unlike previous Japanese drivers, Kamui actually kept the thing on track and would collect the points more often than not.

He was well able to play the tyre long game too, but not as effectively as Perez.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:27 pm 
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ATM2 wrote:
Well, at least he's driving, he's gonna be seen on Sunday, that's one step forward. He couldn't have gotten a better seat anyway, given the current pilots distribution. And let's not forget that a certain German entered the sport mid-nineties without bashing every lower formula he's been into, but turned to be one hell of a racer...who knows if this Dutch won't make a good impression?

I think you need to look at Schumachers single seater record

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:36 pm 
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froze wrote:
Actually the last time I remember a substitute driver scoring points was a certain Vettel in USA 2007 and he didn't have any prior race experience at all. Also in qualy he was constantly only a few tenths off his teammate Heidfeld. Has there been any occasion since that?

If by a few tenths you mean nearly half a second, plus he was in the third fastest car and he finished behind slower cars, the car you drive sort of helps as well, Kubica in identical circumstances than Vettel was more impressive speed wise actually being a few tenths quicker than Heidfeld in qualifying

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Marussia will make the final decision this week. Sources say that Luis Razia is the front-runner and they are also with talks with Vitaly Petrov and Bruno Senna.

And in Sahara Force India are looking into Jules Bianchi for the 2nd seat.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/187783/1/m ... jerez.html


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:20 am 
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Would love to see Petrov in a Marussia (makes more sense with the Russian connection).

Post-Edit: Oh dang. Was a good thought though. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:17 am 
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Confirms it'll be another fairy cakes year for Marussia. Two pay rookies with zero F1 experience. Nice.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:22 am 
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Bianchi vs Sutil for the FI seat.

DiResta is already proven to be just as good as Sutil, i would like to see Bianchi. the field will be filled with rookies


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:23 am 
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So Force India is the last one to confirm their second driver. With Senna out of the picture it's going to be either Bianchi or Sutil. I hope for Bianchi because Sutil already had his fair chance and didn't impress enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:35 pm 
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Has Di Resta been confirmed yet? Last year Trulli was up to race until the 3rd test so there's still time for them to get 2 different drivers if they so wish. It would be even easier if Di Resta doesn't have a contract, which at the moment it seems he doesn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:35 pm 
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I wonder if anybody in Caterham or Marussia are thinking that they now have a better lineup than last year. 8)
It's sad, it's pathetic, but it is what it is. Money talks and Johnnie Walker walks.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:25 pm 
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froze wrote:
It's sad, it's pathetic, but it is what it is. Money talks and Johnnie Walker walks.

My money allows Johnnie Walker affect my talk and my walk. It's sad, it's pathetic, but it is what it is.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:07 am 
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froze wrote:
I wonder if anybody in Caterham or Marussia are thinking that they now have a better lineup than last year. 8)
It's sad, it's pathetic, but it is what it is. Money talks and Johnnie Walker walks.


To be fair, it's quite possible Pic is faster than Petrov and Kovalainen. If the second driver is purely there to bring money, they can't be disappointed. GvdG might even surprise us, we thought Petrov would get shown up in 2012 and look how that turned out.

I'll really miss Petrov, I don't know why I just developed a soft spot for him :( Especially after Australia 2011.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:10 am 
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If Bianchi gets the Findia drive, there will be more French drivers on the grid than German, in 2011 there was 6 German and 0 French!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:21 am 
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Caterham will probably be safe in the constructors even if van der Garde doesn't deliver because of Marussia's line up. I think the team most in danger is Sauber, despite a reliable start to testing. Going on last years formbook with the teams, if Bottas delivers and Maldonado keeps his nose clean, they won't need to be on terms with the car if Guitterez can't keep his head above the waterline. Hulkenberg would have to be outstanding to keep Sauber above Williams if Bottas and Maldonado keep totting up points on the scoreboard.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:14 pm 
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..if Maldonado...
That's a big "if". Granted, he had less crashes last year than 2011, but he's still far away from being a consistent driver.

I'm not that sure about Caterham either. After all, even if Kovalainen and Petrov were rather consistent this year, it still went on to the last race in their fight versus Marussia. And who knows what would have happened if Pic wasn't already signed for Caterham.
After all, it takes only one freak race for any of these teams to secure a 12th spot finish - by luck, by keeping their nose clean, whatever - which would leave its competitor flat faced.

That being said, another day went by and no word from Force India. Very professional like, I'm sure.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Possibly an interesting point raised by Autosport:

Quote:
As Pedro de la Rosa has an official non-race driver title at Ferrari, the timing screens have him down as car number 32. Jules Bianchi, who hopes to be promoted to race driver at Force India, has 15 rather than a test driver number. Does that mean something?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:52 pm 
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ATM2 wrote:
..if Maldonado...
That's a big "if". Granted, he had less crashes last year than 2011, but he's still far away from being a consistent driver.

I'm not that sure about Caterham either. After all, even if Kovalainen and Petrov were rather consistent this year, it still went on to the last race in their fight versus Marussia. And who knows what would have happened if Pic wasn't already signed for Caterham.
After all, it takes only one freak race for any of these teams to secure a 12th spot finish - by luck, by keeping their nose clean, whatever - which would leave its competitor flat faced.

That being said, another day went by and no word from Force India. Very professional like, I'm sure.

This is why those two teams need to start at least scoring 1-4 points per season so that 10th & 11th place in the championship is decided by chompionship points. The way it is now one 12th place finish is enough for team A to beat team B even if team B finished ahead in every other race of the season.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:54 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
Actually the last time I remember a substitute driver scoring points was a certain Vettel in USA 2007 and he didn't have any prior race experience at all. Also in qualy he was constantly only a few tenths off his teammate Heidfeld. Has there been any occasion since that?

If by a few tenths you mean nearly half a second, plus he was in the third fastest car and he finished behind slower cars, the car you drive sort of helps as well, Kubica in identical circumstances than Vettel was more impressive speed wise actually being a few tenths quicker than Heidfeld in qualifying


So what you're saying is that the official racing driver in his car is faster than the reserve driver that had no experience? Thanks captain! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:53 pm 
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r41 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
Actually the last time I remember a substitute driver scoring points was a certain Vettel in USA 2007 and he didn't have any prior race experience at all. Also in qualy he was constantly only a few tenths off his teammate Heidfeld. Has there been any occasion since that?

If by a few tenths you mean nearly half a second, plus he was in the third fastest car and he finished behind slower cars, the car you drive sort of helps as well, Kubica in identical circumstances than Vettel was more impressive speed wise actually being a few tenths quicker than Heidfeld in qualifying


So what you're saying is that the official racing driver in his car is faster than the reserve driver that had no experience? Thanks captain! :lol:

Kubica was in identical circumstances to Seb at the Hungarian GP the previous year:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Hungarian_Grand_Prix

Kubica outqaulified Heidfeld on his debut. Went on to finish 7th and was disqualified for being underweight.
Seb was 7/10ths slower than Heidfeld in qualifying. He finished 8th and kept his point.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:11 pm 
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amirb wrote:
Possibly an interesting point raised by Autosport:

Quote:
As Pedro de la Rosa has an official non-race driver title at Ferrari, the timing screens have him down as car number 32. Jules Bianchi, who hopes to be promoted to race driver at Force India, has 15 rather than a test driver number. Does that mean something?

I *think* it's just the first two drivers nominated get the race numbers, then number 37 goes to the next Force India driver to test the car. I think Rossiter would have had 37.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:18 am 
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Well, another day, another carrot :D like Bugs Bunny would say and still no official news from Force India.

The hype's gone anyway, it actually doesn't make much difference to me anymore, whoever they sign...I'm just noting day by day their weird way of handling such a situation.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:43 am 
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Think it has to be Bianchi really, i was never sold on him but a choice between him and sutil no contest hes younger, no bad pr backed by Ferrari and he has been looking good especially in Jerez, by that i don't just mean his time but seemed to be working through his programme tirelessly to prove he should get it. Compare that to sutil not driven for a year, pr nightmare now, and doesn't seem overly bothered saying they should want him back and he shouldn't have to do the chasing in effect.


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