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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:03 am 
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I am not a Hamilton fan, nor am I a Rosberg fan, but I can say that I am very, very excited to see how the two match up. From an outside perspective, I'd like to see how Nico matches up to Lewis, a former World Champion, and I also want to see how Lewis goes in a car that isn't consistently fighting for victories at the front. Having said that, my prediction is that they will have a Vettel-Webber type partnership, where Rosberg (the less accomplished driver) gets the better of Hamilton at the beginning of the season, but Hamilton then makes a break and topples Nico for the remainder of the season.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:03 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Haribo wrote:
froze wrote:
So. Rosberg already quicker than Hamilton. But I think I know why that is. This is going to be a long read so bear with me:
Spoiler: show
Image
courtesy of ashley313

If you take into account both run a different car on their testing days, the time are not really to compare :)

It wasn't a different car. It was the same car with different bits on it. Who knows if one was actually quicker than the other though, only Merc will since they know fuel loads, tyre wear and brake wear etc.

The whole rear end was different because the run DRD ( passive DRS)
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... 71250.html
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... 71247.html Friday

Thursday
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... 70784.html

Same car, different bits on it. The chassis was exactly the same. It wasn't a whole new car like you suggested in your OP.

Read again!
I said a different car

The car ws different from Tursday to Friday

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:00 am 
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I can't believe I'm going to say this but.

Laura I think everyone knows what Haribo meant.

Us agreeing twice in one week isn't good. sooner the season starts and everything goes back to normal the better :P

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:47 am 
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Johnston wrote:
I can't believe I'm going to say this but.

Laura I think everyone knows what Haribo meant.

Us agreeing twice in one week isn't good. sooner the season starts and everything goes back to normal the better :P

OMG 8O :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:50 am 
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And in a Hammy thread to.

Surely a sign of the apocalypse

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:53 am 
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It's going to be a challenge for Lewis. No doubt in my mind he is the fastest driver in f1 but needs to be able to pull it together consistently over a race weekend. Seb is supreme at this

However nico has been in this team for a while. Will know the design team better and the car better.

But I think looking at them against each other is wrong. I think for once Lewis has a team mate who he gets on well with and I think both will be a perfect combo to develop the car

I think we may see some of Lewis best drives this year with a little less pressure. I just hope they sort the tyre issues. They've kept the push rod though haven't they so I will predict that the Mercedes will once again have deg issues


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:09 pm 
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It wasn't a different car. Same car, different aero bits. To be a different car you need a different chassis.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
It wasn't a different car. Same car, different aero bits. To be a different car you need a different chassis.

Yet drivers and people in the paddock usually refer the car they run in the first race as different from launch car.....pretty sure you know what he meant as different car but you just want to argue for the heck of it.


Last edited by nike2die4 on Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Laura is just bring petty.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
It wasn't a different car. Same car, different aero bits. To be a different car you need a different chassis.


By this logic a boat with a sail is the same as a boat with a nitro booster.

Edit - forgot to answer the question. I think Rosberg is a top 6 or 7 driver and will be a good challenge to Hamilton, but I'd be shocked if Hamilton isn't on top in terms of performance.

My main question mark is the tyres. They are going back to a more 2011 spec Pirelli which I don't think particularly suited Hamilton. It won't affect his qualifying ability but it may not allow him to make the difference in race conditions. Also, remember how happy he was in India last season when he finished 4th but was at last able to push lap after lap. He was absolutely beaming. If he has to reel himself in again for another whole season then I think it will deflate him more than most, though hopefully the new challenge of Mercedes will keep the adrenaline pumping and his spirits up.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:22 pm 
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Nothing like a word/phrase definition petty argument when everybody involved knew what was meant.

When Jenson complained last year, "I have no grip" was that literal too? Ah-ha, figures of speech. Right on.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:42 pm 
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I may be being pedantic but it wasn't a different car. If the suspension had been completely different or the chassis then yes it would have been. But it was just aero parts. In fact it just looked to be a new rear wing set up.

The car the bring to the next test will likely be a totally different car with so many new bits it can't be anything else but.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
It wasn't a different car. Same car, different aero bits. To be a different car you need a different chassis.

Oh dear..


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Ok. The car had a different setup. Bring it back on topic now please guys.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:10 pm 
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Setup or not I bet Hamilton is quicker regardless :p

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:16 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
Ok. The car had a different setup. Bring it back on topic now please guys.


And the topic is fans arguing with each other basically! At least until Melbourne and probably after!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:


Yes he finished 14-9 ahead when both finished. As opposed to 2010 when Nico finished 14-3 ahead when both finished.

I would say over those two seasons they were about level.

Where do you come from and when do you plan to start watching formula one? You should, it's good.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:19 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:


Yes he finished 14-9 ahead when both finished. As opposed to 2010 when Nico finished 14-3 ahead when both finished.

I would say over those two seasons they were about level.

Where do you come from and when do you plan to start watching formula one? You should, it's good.



Ah back to the good old "when both finished" argument! Lets just ignore driving into the back of competitors and only look at when I didn't! Lol

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Misinformed wrote:
I am not a Hamilton fan, nor am I a Rosberg fan, but I can say that I am very, very excited to see how the two match up. From an outside perspective, I'd like to see how Nico matches up to Lewis, a former World Champion, and I also want to see how Lewis goes in a car that isn't consistently fighting for victories at the front. Having said that, my prediction is that they will have a Vettel-Webber type partnership, where Rosberg (the less accomplished driver) gets the better of Hamilton at the beginning of the season, but Hamilton then makes a break and topples Nico for the remainder of the season.

If it was anyone but Lewis I'd probably agree, but his biggest strength is his natural speed. I'd say he'll be quick from the first race, but Rosberg is fast enough in his own right to make it an interesting battle.

Saying that.. it's like this england/irish clash in the six nations this afternoon, you don't know til it begins. Could be a fight straight out of spartacus or out of bridget jones diary.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:


Yes he finished 14-9 ahead when both finished. As opposed to 2010 when Nico finished 14-3 ahead when both finished.

I would say over those two seasons they were about level.

Where do you come from and when do you plan to start watching formula one? You should, it's good.

Well you seemed to have changed your tune from Schumacher having beat Rosberg over the 2011 and 2012 seasons

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:54 am 
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Heikki Kulta has heard behind the scenes that according to Mercedes calculations, Rosberg has been about three tenths faster than Lewis under similar conditions during testing.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:29 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Heikki Kulta has heard behind the scenes that according to Mercedes calculations, Rosberg has been about three tenths faster than Lewis under similar conditions during testing.


source?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:32 am 
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tmzxaar wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Heikki Kulta has heard behind the scenes that according to Mercedes calculations, Rosberg has been about three tenths faster than Lewis under similar conditions during testing.


source?

In Finnish: http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/f1/448 ... n+lupaavaa

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:35 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Heikki Kulta has heard behind the scenes that according to Mercedes calculations, Rosberg has been about three tenths faster than Lewis under similar conditions during testing.

Only 3/10 is great,for someone completely unfamiliar with the car, steering, engineers, set up. brakes, etc
According to some experts ( noble, Straw) Lewis drove very carefully and wasn't really pushing
Thought the difference would be higher in favour to Rosberg.Looks like Lewis learns fast 8)
Rosberg is a very fast driver, so 3/ 10 on first test is not too bad

BTW Lewis run DRD on the car Rosberg, not.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:17 am 
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f1madman wrote:
Setup or not I bet Hamilton is quicker regardless :p

This is my thinking, I like Nico a lot. I cheered when he won but I dont see him beating Lewis.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:50 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:


Yes he finished 14-9 ahead when both finished. As opposed to 2010 when Nico finished 14-3 ahead when both finished.

I would say over those two seasons they were about level.

Where do you come from and when do you plan to start watching formula one? You should, it's good.

Well you seemed to have changed your tune from Schumacher having beat Rosberg over the 2011 and 2012 seasons

Not sure whether Eva09 thinks Schumi performed better than Nico during 2012, but I have stated this and continue to believe this to be the case. As I have stated before, when the Merc was performing well Schumi almost invariably had mechanical issues. During this period, Nico gained nearly all his points but was almost invariable beaten by Schumi when they both finished (7/2 if my calcs are correct).

Yes, a couple of those DNFs can be blamed on Schumi - but this doesn't change the points he lost as a result of mechanical failures during the crucial part of the Merc season. Even if you 'add on' those races (i.e. don't count them as DNFs) - he still beat Nico 7/4.

I'd always thought Nico was pretty good, but he went down in my estimation as a result of the 2012 season.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
I may be being pedantic but it wasn't a different car. If the suspension had been completely different or the chassis then yes it would have been. But it was just aero parts. In fact it just looked to be a new rear wing set up.

The car the bring to the next test will likely be a totally different car with so many new bits it can't be anything else but.

Since you're obviously naive to the subject matter I'll break it down for you…

A car with a static chassis can be configured completely differently in many ways, essentially changing how the car and its systems function in its entirety which affect lap times. If such components didn't change a car's performance significantly then please explain what the purpose of the development race throughout a complete season.

There's a reason why teams continue to develop the cars aero and it's not so they can continue running the same car, because if that was the case, they would just debut a car and run it as is for the duration of the season. The fact however is, that they don't because a winglet here, and recess there, an angular mod, a flexure there can all modify a car's handling, characteristics and behavior significantly enough to change a car's dynamics completely. Having said this the time differential was not all that great and the team was just testing different setups and systems under different fuel loads and aero packages to asses what direction they feel is best to move in to further refine the car and improve it overall.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
f1madman wrote:
Setup or not I bet Hamilton is quicker regardless :p

I cheered when he won but I dont see him beating Lewis.

Why? Are you going to turn the tv off whenever it happens?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:43 pm 
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Underneath it is essentially the same car, it has the same chassis number. If you took your road car and stuck loads of bits on it it would still be the same car. The same car with bits added on or taken away. I'm sticking with that since the FIA rules state only one car may be used per test and that relates to the chassis.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Underneath it is essentially the same car, it has the same chassis number. If you took your road car and stuck loads of bits on it it would still be the same car. The same car with bits added on or taken away. I'm sticking with that since the FIA rules state only one car may be used per test and that relates to the chassis.


yeah aerodynamics has absolutely no effect on the speed of an F1 car, so different aero parts wouldnt have made a difference, all that matters is that the chassis was the same, you're totally right, as always. Set-up isnt important either btw


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:08 pm 
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:uhoh:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:19 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Eva09 wrote:
But Schumacher was half a second faster in testing and he was... half a second slower in the race...

8O

Take it from me a Schumi fan, testing means little, although Michael (somewhat) overcame Nico in 2011/2012.

I'm guessing only a Schumacher fan could say that? :lol:


Yes he finished 14-9 ahead when both finished. As opposed to 2010 when Nico finished 14-3 ahead when both finished.

I would say over those two seasons they were about level.

Where do you come from and when do you plan to start watching formula one? You should, it's good.

Well you seemed to have changed your tune from Schumacher having beat Rosberg over the 2011 and 2012 seasons

Not sure whether Eva09 thinks Schumi performed better than Nico during 2012, but I have stated this and continue to believe this to be the case. As I have stated before, when the Merc was performing well Schumi almost invariably had mechanical issues. During this period, Nico gained nearly all his points but was almost invariable beaten by Schumi when they both finished (7/2 if my calcs are correct).

Yes, a couple of those DNFs can be blamed on Schumi - but this doesn't change the points he lost as a result of mechanical failures during the crucial part of the Merc season. Even if you 'add on' those races (i.e. don't count them as DNFs) - he still beat Nico 7/4.

I'd always thought Nico was pretty good, but he went down in my estimation as a result of the 2012 season.

I'm open to the fact that Schumacher may have been the better driver in 2012 but 2011 was included as well which i'm very doubtful about

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:41 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Underneath it is essentially the same car, it has the same chassis number. If you took your road car and stuck loads of bits on it it would still be the same car. The same car with bits added on or taken away. I'm sticking with that since the FIA rules state only one car may be used per test and that relates to the chassis.


yeah aerodynamics has absolutely no effect on the speed of an F1 car, so different aero parts wouldnt have made a difference, all that matters is that the chassis was the same, you're totally right, as always. Set-up isnt important either btw


:thumbup: :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:34 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Underneath it is essentially the same car, it has the same chassis number. If you took your road car and stuck loads of bits on it it would still be the same car. The same car with bits added on or taken away.



By such a comment it is crystal clear you know even less than you or anyone else on PF1 ever imagined. The GT3 458 Italia cars are essentially production cars fitted with all sorts of upgrades and lightened a bit, so I guess according to your apparent expertise they are in fact the same car. Yeah, that's got to be right cuz these are the same:

Image
Image



Image

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Oh so because I'm a woman that's why I know less about cars than you? How about you shut your outdated sexist attitude up the incubus. This is 2013, not 1953.

The chassis Rosberg and Hamilton used in Jerez was the same. That equals the same car. The photos you provided are irrelevant, they are two separate chassis and so two different cars.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:48 pm 
Right guys, quit the arguing. Leave what is and isn't a car alone. The topic is about Hamilton and Rosberg's speed, not what constitutes a bloody car.

Anymore skewing off topic to talk about what a car is and isn't and we'll lock it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Can we move on from this? It's obviously a case of different terms rather than some big life-ending fail. Also I'm with Laura on the 'woman' comment, what the hell Incubus?

OT: I can't wait 'til next week. Just my opinion but my gut feeling is Mercedes are looking at general feel first, which was Jerez. Neither driver said it was a dog of a car, which is always a good start. 2nd test will be about downforce, 3rd will be tire wear. Brawn knows Hamilton is far less fussy a driver and so perhaps the feeling is "This is the way we're going Lewis, try and keep up"

Total speculation of course, but then ISN'T EVERYTHING WE'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW? :p


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Ok I made the comment as a joke so get off your high and mighty horse. Your comments are in the immortal words of that racist pig John Wayne Ri-God-Damn-Diculous!

And I am in no way sexist just taking the opportunity to make a joke that I knew you'd take offense to because you are a woman and as with the vast majority of women who jump before processing to realize it was a joke, I figured it would get precisely that reaction from you. Your opinion on this subject matter is way off base and for those of us who actually know what the hell we're talking about, you are clueless. Since my comparo was not to your liking how about this one?

According to you, both built on the same 991 chassis so SAME CAR right?…
Image

Image

WRONG!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:05 pm 
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I'm going to let The Mods deal with this one, but one last comment,

No. That is still a different chassis. Hamilton and Rosberg drive with the exact same chassis under them in Jerez. As in there was only one chassis there. So one car.

The above is two separate chassis built in the same mold. So two separate cars.

And yes your comment was sexist. Very sexist. Hence why I reported it. Let's let The Mods decide what happens now.

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