planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:50 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:53 pm
Posts: 410
Title pretty much says it all, so many people seem to be able to tell that it is a modesty panel rather than a Mclaren 2012 like flat nose... but how can you tell?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:31 pm
Posts: 393
You can tell by the height of the chassis itself. To have a high nose with a high chassis you would need to have a modesty panel as the height regulations do not allow for the nose to be as high as the 'tub', hence the step last year. These 2013 cars are essentially a similar design to last years, but the panel covers the step.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:53 pm
Posts: 410
the panels are very good!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
Posts: 793
Location: Derby
Force Indias were very noticeable on the launch on tv it didn't seem to sit flush with the nose but you cant tell in pics.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1481
You can tell because if it was not for modesty panel, the cars we have seen so far without stepped nose will be illegal. Their nose is actually higher than the regulations permit, but the structural part is lower. The upper bulge is just thin carbon fibre which will just crumble in case of crash. Had that part been structural, the car would have been illegal.
That is how you can tell.
Unless someone goes the way McLaren or Marussia and HRT went last year, they cannot design the nose without step while maintaining high front chassis design. The actual height of the structure might very little from team to team, but with current design trend, you can rest assure that those who dont have stepped nose have modesty panel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Well, that basically leaves only one question unanswered, how will Marussia conceive their car. Considering the HRT is out, and that Macca already went for the higher chassis+stepped nose, only Marussia is left choosing to continue with the old 2013 lowered chassis -and no modesty plate - or just follow the trend.

And I still don't understand how can Sauber can put a modesty pate which forms, together with the chassis, a hole in the nose, and not be considered an aero advantage. Can somebody explain in plain terms that?

_________________
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 769
Location: Tampere, F1nland
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:48 pm
Posts: 1407
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

No it doesn't. And come race day they may have the panel as well or the teams with nay not have it. So they could be teasing us


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1006
ATM2 wrote:
Well, that basically leaves only one question unanswered, how will Marussia conceive their car. Considering the HRT is out, and that Macca already went for the higher chassis+stepped nose, only Marussia is left choosing to continue with the old 2013 lowered chassis -and no modesty plate - or just follow the trend.

And I still don't understand how can Sauber can put a modesty pate which forms, together with the chassis, a hole in the nose, and not be considered an aero advantage. Can somebody explain in plain terms that?


McLaren has said that they abandoned last year's design because they were afraid of reaching a development ceiling. But Marussia are way off the pace and are probably not going to reach that ceiling anytime soon. For them its probably easier just to continue from last year with a similar design route so they can actually get some work done on the 2014 car.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1197
A2jdl wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
Looks much better

No it doesn't.


Is that really the sort of debate adults have? That style of argument is probably best kept for a question like "does this dissolve in water?"

Anyway, this is a great way of seeing the difference between maximum chassis height and not.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 1445
Who cares?

_________________
PLAY A RECORD KARL COS I'M GUNNA KNOCK YOU OUT!!!
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:50 am
Posts: 1197
sgt.hartman wrote:
Who cares?


Everyone in this thread other than you, it would seem. ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 2949
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

You're kidding?

_________________
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

"It's hammer time!"

British Driver Supporter (and Daniel Ricciardo)

Greg Moore - Dan Wheldon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:55 pm
Posts: 769
Location: Tampere, F1nland
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

You're kidding?


Serious, serious.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:29 am
Posts: 380
Location: 127.0.0.1
RaisinChips wrote:
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

You're kidding?


Serious, serious.

Lotus and all step nose cars look like poo : P
While we're on the topic I dislike the current look of f1 cars in general step or otherwise, I find the 2007 cars magnificent to behold!
Serious, serious : )


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
callMEcrazy wrote:
ATM2 wrote:
Well, that basically leaves only one question unanswered, how will Marussia conceive their car. Considering the HRT is out, and that Macca already went for the higher chassis+stepped nose, only Marussia is left choosing to continue with the old 2013 lowered chassis -and no modesty plate - or just follow the trend.

And I still don't understand how can Sauber can put a modesty pate which forms, together with the chassis, a hole in the nose, and not be considered an aero advantage. Can somebody explain in plain terms that?


McLaren has said that they abandoned last year's design because they were afraid of reaching a development ceiling. But Marussia are way off the pace and are probably not going to reach that ceiling anytime soon. For them its probably easier just to continue from last year with a similar design route so they can actually get some work done on the 2014 car.


That's an interesting point of view. So basically they had perfected the car so much, they needed to make more fundamental changes to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

You're kidding?


I think the stepped nose Lotus looks not too bad actually. Looks better than Ferrari or Red Bull last year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 1182
The Modesty Panel has been worked into the nose by the teams so there's no way of visually seeing any seams on them. The McLaren shows it's fully integrated with the nose as does the Ferrari. Sauber's approach is quite eye pleasing as it looks every bit the part of an F1 car though the step is still there and by the looks may add some good downforce to the front.

Of the Step Noses, I don't think anyone did a better job of making it look nice outside of Sauber. Their design and engineering teams have really been on the ball since mid 2011 and their solutions to many systems have all been superb. The Coanda style exhaust was so good most of the teams copied them. Their Platypus nose was well sculpted and the way it tapered outward towards the very front was very aggressive looking. The stance of the car and the minimalism throughout the entire rear section was easily the most impressive thing since the tiny Williams gearbox with the ultra-low driveshaft placement. This years Sauber is for me the most beautiful of all the cars but the Ferrari and McLaren are beautiful cars as well. Force india is pretty ugly and looks like a lazy approach up front if you ask me. The Mercedes is much nicer than last years car but I think more than anything its livery kills the look of the car. This isn't 1948 where the cars were a single color throughout and the cars can be made to look much nicer with the proper design work on the livery. It does look pretty fast and VERY Shark-like.

_________________
Second place is the first loser!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 1182
The Torro Rosso has the laziest of the Modesty panel designs. It's a Bolt-On component that's secured via 13 screws.

_________________
Second place is the first loser!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 3131
the incubus wrote:
The Torro Rosso has the laziest of the Modesty panel designs. It's a Bolt-On component that's secured via 13 screws.

Maybe that's so they can remove it if they find step noses have an aero advantage? Save designing a new nose.

_________________
XVII To a swift recovery.

VI LXXVII XIV X
Image
gif from reddit


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 1182
Doubt that's it. Airflow is at it's most efficient when traveling over and around long sweeping and smooth surfaces. The greater the amount of elements and obstacles the air encounters, the more turbulent.

_________________
Second place is the first loser!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Well, 13 screws must weigh about the modesty plate itself...
Strange approach by RBR though. A very small modesty plate, which still leaves a big (and rather ugly) step. So, if the modesty plate is not installed for the purpose which FIA allowed it - which was, as we know, eliminating the step -then what other reason might that be? err...aerodynamic advantage?
Or am I just blabbing my mouth and the RB9 does not have a modesty panel at all?

_________________
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 1182
It's a not about the weight, it's about the seam all the way around it as well as the little recesses for the screws themselves though I'd imagine the air would glide right over the holes and never make its way in. It's just pretty visible for F1 IMHO.

_________________
Second place is the first loser!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 1182
RB9 is just a SLIGHT evolution of last years car and the front is pretty much identical. no modesty panel. just the same step with an intake slot for who knows what. LOL

_________________
Second place is the first loser!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
The STR one looks like someone went "Feck they've all went with panels we better knock one up before Monday"

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:14 pm
Posts: 2460
A2jdl wrote:
RaisinChips wrote:
:thumbup: for Lotus for retaining the actual stepped-nose look. Looks much better than McLaren and Ferrari.

No it doesn't. And come race day they may have the panel as well or the teams with nay not have it. So they could be teasing us


I don't see the big deal it's a racing car that you have to drive to get to the line first before the other guy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:59 am
Posts: 119
the incubus wrote:
RB9 is just a SLIGHT evolution of last years car and the front is pretty much identical. no modesty panel. just the same step with an intake slot for who knows what. LOL

Both RB and Sauber chose to cover the step partially but took the opposite path.

Q. The RB9 keeps the stepped nose of last year. Was there any thought given to fitting the optional ‘vanity panel’?
A. Newey: There is a vanity panel but it’s quite small. It doesn’t extend a huge way forward because that would add unjustifiable weight. Last year we had a letterbox design to reduce the step, which aided cooling. This year the small vanity panel has allowed us to get rid of that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:41 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Precisely my point. So, they use the allowed rule, but they don't exactly use it like it's supposed to...isn't that liable of creating suspicion?

_________________
Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1006
Eva09 wrote:
callMEcrazy wrote:
ATM2 wrote:
Well, that basically leaves only one question unanswered, how will Marussia conceive their car. Considering the HRT is out, and that Macca already went for the higher chassis+stepped nose, only Marussia is left choosing to continue with the old 2013 lowered chassis -and no modesty plate - or just follow the trend.

And I still don't understand how can Sauber can put a modesty pate which forms, together with the chassis, a hole in the nose, and not be considered an aero advantage. Can somebody explain in plain terms that?


McLaren has said that they abandoned last year's design because they were afraid of reaching a development ceiling. But Marussia are way off the pace and are probably not going to reach that ceiling anytime soon. For them its probably easier just to continue from last year with a similar design route so they can actually get some work done on the 2014 car.


That's an interesting point of view. So basically they had perfected the car so much, they needed to make more fundamental changes to it.


"Perfected" is perhaps not the right word. Optimized.

Every design route obviously doesn't have the same potential. Some routes yield fast advancements for a while but stagnate pretty quickly. McLaren probably had such a design. In contrast Ferrari's front pull rod design took some time to get going but now it seems that it has more overall potential, or at least that's what McLaren thinks since they are using it now. Its a fact though that McLaren had been using that low chassis for a long time so they must have known its limits.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 5919
Ah the armchair experts at it telling STR how they should've done it...

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Rosberg - Bottas


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: montyinct and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group