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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Obviously no one but him really knows...

But its interesting watching Webber body language during the RB9 launch and the Red Bull story video....Ive also heard him talking before about the grind of the season and how its a real slog by the end. He is a pretty straight forward guy and he doesnt like the faff and the glitz (he mentioned re Monaco)...

Obviously as a racing driver its pretty hard to walk away from Red Bull. But being beaten by Seb so frequently must take a big toll - as Seb is now so smugly embraced by RB and Helmut.

I like Mark and its sad to see a man in that situation. Maybe its not so bad. Still - he looks pretty dejected in interviews and bored of it all...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:50 pm 
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I get the impression he enjoys driving the car but that's it. He doesn't even remotely enjoy the inter team politics, PR stuff, interviews etc......a bit like Kimi. And like Kimi he isn't afraid of allowing that to come across.

If he wanted to walk away he would have done so by now.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Didn't look that bored when he announced he's finally got his iron rod off his foot. From the interview report, looked rather excited.

I'd be bored too if Helmut Marko would continue shooting his mouth off like he does. Or at least I'd try to look bored and thus, try not give him the straightforward reply he might deserve.

Webber, I believe, is still keen on becoming WDC, but I think he's finally beginning to realize himself he's not going to be one shadow of a chance this year. His chance was in 2010, and that train sailed away (if I may say it like this).
Then again, a couple of Vettel's retirements, a dog of a car (which apparently suits better the Australian, rather than the German) and we might yet see a smile with all canines...

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Last edited by ATM2 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Does he want to be in F1? Yes. Does he want Seb as his team mate, and Marko being a dick all the time? No.

He's a pretty straightforward guy and will speak his mind. You can tell he gets a bit tiddled off with the pathetic jabs constantly coming from Marko and is there to do his job.

He just doesn't like doing the whole forced PR happy families crap, and I dont blame him. Kimi's the same in that respect.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:53 pm 
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ATM2 wrote:
Didn't look that bored when he announced he's finally got his iron rod off his foot. From the interview report, looked rather excited.

I'd be bored too if Helmut Marko would continue shooting his mouth off like he does. Or at least I'd try to look bored and thus, try not give him the straightforward reply he might deserve.

Webber, I believe, is still keen on becoming WDC, but I think he's finally beginning to realize himself he's not going to be one shadow of a chance this year. His chance was in 2010, that train sailed away (if I may say it like this).


The consensus is as you say, his chance to be WDC was in 2010 (or maybe 2009). But race wins are on the cards in a car like the ones Newey designs. Why would you walk away from that possibility?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Reminds me a lot like Rubens when he was paired with MSC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:56 pm 
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the same in that respect.


Kimi's having it much better than him. Considering he's number 1 in the team, and everybody's saying "oh well, that's Kimi" , Raikkonen is actually having a sweet deal with Lotus.

Whilst, Webber is cornered from all angles. Particularly from the team boss. God, I'd like for RBR to have their first flop soon, with Webber still on board, I'd like to see Marko come up with a good excuse for that. Oh, wait, actually I'd like to see the first flop after Webber has left.

Quote:
Why would you walk away from that possibility?


True, no reason, good car and his age work for this, which is why he is still probably sticking around. After all, like I said, all he needs is a couple of screw-ups from Vettel (that moment will come, sooner or later, nobody's infallible) and if Webber can jump the opportunity. I'm guessing this is his plan in a nutshell also.

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Last edited by ATM2 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Of course he wants to be there. He purposefully signs one year contracts so when the time comes he can jump without having to worry about the contract.

If he didn't want to be there he could have jumped at the end of the season.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:00 pm 
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I really like Webbo - typical Oz attitude! - and I'd really like to see him beat Vettel, but we know it's rather unlikely. The best start for MW will be if he gets to grips with the new car and tyres quicker than Seb, and puts a few points up on him. That will maybe give him some motivation to really push hard for the rest of the season. Mind you, I guess we could suddenly see his car faltering again in that situation! I don't like conspiracy theories as such, but RB deffo seem to favour SV, even from the start of each season!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:34 pm 
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I think this will be his last season in F1 and so he probably doesn't care too much about having to hide anything any more.

I think either he's agreed with RBR to end this year or knows RBR won't renew him at the end of this year so it will be his final swansong year in F1.

He doesn't care for Marko and all the other politics, but you can be damn sure he wants to go out on a high...

I don't think he'd drop down to a lesser team if RBR did drop him...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:38 pm 
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He wants to be there, but he can't be 100% happy with his situation. I do think this will be his last year, and as I've said many times throughout the forum, I think he'll be driving the Porsche LMP1 car next year in the WEC and at LM.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Well, most of the retired F1 guys continue driving for some years, in DTM, WTCC or whatever their choice would be. But I was talking talking about his F1 retirement...what comes afterwards is a completely different story. And he's not that old...even supposing that RBR will not extend his contract further to 2014, he will be 37, it's rather risky thinking he would not find or agree to a seat in another team... most F1 drivers quit the sport not on their own will, but rather being pushed by the lack of seats.
And, giving the fact that, so far, Webber was not a WDC (unlike Hakkinen, Hill or Schumacher, who really quit on their decision), I feel he will stick around as long as he can.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:21 pm 
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I could see Webber getting involved in the television side of things eventually. He's just given up his BBC column and stated that he is looking forward to doing more work with the BBC in the future and reading between the lines..

I can just see it now.. "So Seb.. now we're not teammates anymore, I think........." :]


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Of course he wants to be in F1.

He probably would prefer it if Seb suffered from some of "Buttons Balance™"

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:15 am 
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Webber likes racing, not all the other crap. A better question is whether he wants to be at Red Bull, a team which despite the Horner soundbites is definitely not behind him. I don't think he'll retire this season unless he's off the pace.

Webber to McLaren in 2014 :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:25 am 
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FringeUK wrote:
I really like Webbo - typical Oz attitude! - and I'd really like to see him beat Vettel, but we know it's rather unlikely. The best start for MW will be if he gets to grips with the new car and tyres quicker than Seb, and puts a few points up on him. That will maybe give him some motivation to really push hard for the rest of the season. Mind you, I guess we could suddenly see his car faltering again in that situation! I don't like conspiracy theories as such, but RB deffo seem to favour SV, even from the start of each season!

The car is built for Vettel, has been since the end of 2009 (confirmed by Horner). Throughout the season it will be developed towards Vettel's style and requirements which is why if they're neck and neck at the half-way stage (or Webber ahead like last year), the upgrades will take geared towards Seb and, so too the prime race strategies and he'll close it out. It's a similar situation to Alonso-Massa at Ferrari.

It's still a great seat for Webber however or any driver and his matching Vettel in quali last year will demonstrate just how quick he is to other teams.

No disrespect to Button or Perez I hope he goes to McLaren in 2014 as they offer the greatest hope of equality of the top teams. With Hamilton and Alonso at other teams, it has to be an attractive option.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:05 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Webber likes racing, not all the other crap. A better question is whether he wants to be at Red Bull, a team which despite the Horner soundbites is definitely not behind him. I don't think he'll retire this season unless he's off the pace.

Webber to McLaren in 2014 :thumbup:


He would need either Button or Perez to have a shocker to the extent that McLaren could activate a performance clause allowing them to bring Webber onboard. Button signed a "multi year deal" at the end of 2011 so he should be there for 2014 unless Red Bull offered him a seat and even then he may hesitate. I would be amazed if McLaren didn't have an option on Perez for 2014 too.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:50 am 
My prediction - this will be Webber's last season. Red Bull will promote (probably) Ricciardo to partner Vettel in 2014, McLaren is sewn up with Perez and Button, and Ferrari will retain Alonso and either keep Massa or replace him with Hulkenberg. Webber won't be interested in running in a lower team, so he'll call it quits.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:04 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Webber likes racing, not all the other crap. A better question is whether he wants to be at Red Bull, a team which despite the Horner soundbites is definitely not behind him. I don't think he'll retire this season unless he's off the pace.

Webber to McLaren in 2014 :thumbup:


Except there are two problems.

One McLaren doesn't want to take someone on with one year deals.

Second they have two contracted drivers already. So no free seat unless he wants to do a PdR

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:15 am 
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ATM2 wrote:
I'd like for RBR to have their first flop soon


Their first?
Why do people keep forgetting RBR pre-2009?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:18 am 
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mds wrote:
ATM2 wrote:
I'd like for RBR to have their first flop soon


Their first?
Why do people keep forgetting RBR pre-2009?

Can you consider it a flop when they didn't have any real highs before hand? I always considered a flop to be something pretty rubbish following a decent period.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:41 am 
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jammin78 wrote:
mds wrote:
ATM2 wrote:
I'd like for RBR to have their first flop soon


Their first?
Why do people keep forgetting RBR pre-2009?

Can you consider it a flop when they didn't have any real highs before hand? I always considered a flop to be something pretty rubbish following a decent period.


Fair point, but I think you can call the RB4 a flop after the pretty decent (but unreliable) RB3, considering it was soundly beaten by the sister team.

edit: also, the presence of Newey in itself makes the RB4 pretty much a flop since expectations were higher than before.


Last edited by mds on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 am 
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mds wrote:
jammin78 wrote:
mds wrote:
ATM2 wrote:
I'd like for RBR to have their first flop soon


Their first?
Why do people keep forgetting RBR pre-2009?

Can you consider it a flop when they didn't have any real highs before hand? I always considered a flop to be something pretty rubbish following a decent period.


Fair point, but I think you can call the RB4 a flop after the pretty decent (but unreliable) RB3, considering it was soundly beaten by the sister team.

Also a fair point. Red Bull, pah, not very good are they? Pfft.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:45 am 
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I really feel for Webber. Before he was partnered with Vettel he always outscored his teammates (except than for Heidfeld think they were equal in points when Heifdeld got injured). Imagine if it had been an lesser driver than Vettel he could have been multiple champ.
Webber is the oldest driver on the grid now. If he retires it would become Kimi I think.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:53 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Of course he wants to be there. He purposefully signs one year contracts so when the time comes he can jump without having to worry about the contract.

If he didn't want to be there he could have jumped at the end of the season.

:thumbup: I don't always agree with Johnston but, on this one, I totally agree. Mark has purposely signed one year contracts for the last few years simply so he could leave whenever he no longer enjoyed racing in F1. Obviously, he still enjoys racing in F1. I thought he answered Marco's recent bitchy comments about him rather well. What did surprise me was that they were made in Red Bull's official inhouse magazine. Huh, how does that work & why was he allowed to make them? Talk about giving both of your drivers total support!!! And people criticise Ferrari & the Massa factor :D


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:08 am 
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Look at it this way: Mark is a driver who speaks his mind, and he is applauded for that. He (and the people that applaud him) should then also accept others speaking their mind. In all honesty, Marko has had some braindead moments, but I don't think his comments about Webber were unappropriate. They were direct, but I think there was truth in it.

Webber is at Red Bull because it's his best shot at winning races. It would be better for him to not have Vettel there, but as a driver who's not one of the very best (although not far behind), it's unrealistic to be in a top team and not have one of the very best next to you.

Also, him only signing 1-year deals works both ways, in my view. Pretty sure Red Bull also want to take it one year at a time, to be able to replace him at a drop in form.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:11 am 
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mds wrote:
Also, him only signing 1-year deals works both ways, in my view. Pretty sure Red Bull also want to take it one year at a time, to be able to replace him at a drop in form.



Horner has stated in the past that they tried to tie him in to longer deals but Webber wouldn't have it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:23 am 
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Johnston wrote:
mds wrote:
Also, him only signing 1-year deals works both ways, in my view. Pretty sure Red Bull also want to take it one year at a time, to be able to replace him at a drop in form.



Horner has stated in the past that they tried to tie him in to longer deals but Webber wouldn't have it.


"in the past" being key... I'm speaking present time :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:31 am 
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mds wrote:
Look at it this way: Mark is a driver who speaks his mind, and he is applauded for that. He (and the people that applaud him) should then also accept others speaking their mind. In all honesty, Marko has had some braindead moments, but I don't think his comments about Webber were unappropriate. They were direct, but I think there was truth in it.

Webber is at Red Bull because it's his best shot at winning races. It would be better for him to not have Vettel there, but as a driver who's not one of the very best (although not far behind), it's unrealistic to be in a top team and not have one of the very best next to you.

Also, him only signing 1-year deals works both ways, in my view. Pretty sure Red Bull also want to take it one year at a time, to be able to replace him at a drop in form.

Really, you think that someone in a management position within a drivers team openly criticising him is ok. All I can say is thank God I don't work for you. Being 2IC in my company, the owner & I understand that, while we may say certain things to each other that may be negative about someone during our weekly meetings, they remain that, private, just between us. Once that is off our chests we then try to come up with a way we can help that person & end up with a positive result for everyone concerned :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:42 am 
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mds wrote:
Johnston wrote:
mds wrote:
Also, him only signing 1-year deals works both ways, in my view. Pretty sure Red Bull also want to take it one year at a time, to be able to replace him at a drop in form.



Horner has stated in the past that they tried to tie him in to longer deals but Webber wouldn't have it.


"in the past" being key... I'm speaking present time :)



Well the next present will be in the future when they discuss his next contract. So all the talk of contracts whether it be for one year or more will be in the past. ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:49 am 
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It makes sense for him to only sign one year deals. I imagine he'd jump at the chance of a Ferrari seat - there's always been the rumours of him going there, wouldn't be surprised if it was just the details that stopped him taking Massa's seat - maybe he could be there from 2014 for a couple of years?

McLaren isn't really an option - Jenson has a deal that'll probably take him until the end of 2014 at the earliest - probably longer if he's still competitive. Same with Perez, there's he'll have at least a 2 year contract.

So it really just leaves Red Bull or moving back down to a mid-field team - at least in a Red Bull he knows he's likely to have the machinery to win races and a championship. He just needs the cards to fall his way, who knows what 2013 holds...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:59 am 
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DrG wrote:
Really, you think that someone in a management position within a drivers team openly criticising him is ok. All I can say is thank God I don't work for you. Being 2IC in my company, the owner & I understand that, while we may say certain things to each other that may be negative about someone during our weekly meetings, they remain that, private, just between us. Once that is off our chests we then try to come up with a way we can help that person & end up with a positive result for everyone concerned :-P


It works both ways, no? The whole "not bad for a #2 driver" in my view was also not to be misunderstood and not the kind of things I'd expect from an employee to speak for the world (or, to suit your analogy, for my customers/rivals/...) to hear.

If Mark feels he can speak his mind and do it in that kind of ways, he'll have to accept others doing so.
I keep falling back at what Marko actually said, and I don't think it was unappropriate.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Seanie wrote:
I imagine he'd jump at the chance of a Ferrari seat


So you would find it logical for a driver that is allowed to win and doesn't like a #2 status to move to Ferrari where the #1 status of Alonso is undisputed and the #2 driver moves over at any possible time, or takes penalties to promote the #1 driver on the grid?

I find that highly unlikely. Maybe if it was the only possible option to remain in F1, but that's about the only scenario.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:28 pm 
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I get the impression he would have loved to be about 40 or 50 years ago when it was less of a marketing game.

But F1 pays him well, makes him famous and lets him drive what is probably one of the 22 best cars in the world that year on a regular basis. You might have to deal with some crap, but being an F1 driver sounds like a brilliant job.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Seanie wrote:
It makes sense for him to only sign one year deals. I imagine he'd jump at the chance of a Ferrari seat - there's always been the rumours of him going there, wouldn't be surprised if it was just the details that stopped him taking Massa's seat - maybe he could be there from 2014 for a couple of years?

McLaren isn't really an option - Jenson has a deal that'll probably take him until the end of 2014 at the earliest - probably longer if he's still competitive. Same with Perez, there's he'll have at least a 2 year contract.

So it really just leaves Red Bull or moving back down to a mid-field team - at least in a Red Bull he knows he's likely to have the machinery to win races and a championship. He just needs the cards to fall his way, who knows what 2013 holds...

Webber never went to Ferrari plain and simple because he wanted a shot at the 2012 title and knew there was no chance the team would support him if he jumped ship


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:18 pm 
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infi24r wrote:
Seanie wrote:
It makes sense for him to only sign one year deals. I imagine he'd jump at the chance of a Ferrari seat - there's always been the rumours of him going there, wouldn't be surprised if it was just the details that stopped him taking Massa's seat - maybe he could be there from 2014 for a couple of years?

McLaren isn't really an option - Jenson has a deal that'll probably take him until the end of 2014 at the earliest - probably longer if he's still competitive. Same with Perez, there's he'll have at least a 2 year contract.

So it really just leaves Red Bull or moving back down to a mid-field team - at least in a Red Bull he knows he's likely to have the machinery to win races and a championship. He just needs the cards to fall his way, who knows what 2013 holds...

Webber never went to Ferrari plain and simple because he wanted a shot at the 2012 title and knew there was no chance the team would support him if he jumped ship


And because he doesn't want to be a definitive #2 driver.
Say what you want, but at RBR he did get a chance at the title and might get it again. At Ferrari, I don't see it happening.

Also, it would put a huge strain on his relationship with Alonso - they are good friends after all. I think that could be a third reason not to do it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:41 pm 
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i see a bunch of posts claiming weber likes racing and none of the other stuff (politics, etc) well, none of the drivers want to do promotion or listen to politics.

all this "poor mark" stuff, i don't get. he doesn't have to sign a contract and i would imagine he should have had plenty of money to retire several years ago. if he really didn't want to deal with it he would have left red bull.
at this point in his career i think he should be thrilled to be driving as well as he does and for rbr. if he has to listen to some criticism, i think he can handle that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:15 pm 
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yes I think he very much enjoys pwning Vettel's donkey when the car is not fast sometimes


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:54 am 
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Amon wrote:
I really feel for Webber. Before he was partnered with Vettel he always outscored his teammates (except than for Heidfeld think they were equal in points when Heifdeld got injured). Imagine if it had been an lesser driver than Vettel he could have been multiple champ.
Webber is the oldest driver on the grid now. If he retires it would become Kimi I think.

I don't know about that, RB could have found some other German to develop their car around. Vettel is good but he is preferred driver in the best team, I'm not convinced that a Rosberg or a Hulkenberg couldn't do a similar job as RB's No.1 driver with all the resources behind them.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:44 am 
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Formula1Fan. wrote:
Amon wrote:
I really feel for Webber. Before he was partnered with Vettel he always outscored his teammates (except than for Heidfeld think they were equal in points when Heifdeld got injured).Imagine if it had been an lesser driver than Vettel he could have been multiple champ.
Webber is the oldest driver on the grid now. If he retires it would become Kimi I think.

I don't know about that, RB could have found some other German to develop their car around. Vettel is good but he is preferred driver in the best team, I'm not convinced that a Rosberg or a Hulkenberg couldn't do a similar job as RB's No.1 driver with all the resources behind them.


Not taking anything away from Rosberg and Hulkenberg's own talents, but that is a slight on Vettel that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Red Bull could have chosen Timo Glock when they entered the sport in 2005. He was available and could have been the rookie alongside Coulthard when they entered the sport. They could have done the same with Adrian Sutil in 2006 if they were so keen on a German driver. They didn't even try. Why didn't they bring Vettel in earlier than they did? It's not a German-Austrian fit up. They were very happy with Coulthard and Webber until a better driver became available, and that was Vettel. They weren't going to bring him before he was ready and it showed in 2009.

If Webber is only being stopped from being a multiple world champion by the Red Bull team and truly doesn't have any chance there whatsoever, why didn't he sign for Ferrari? They weren't so bad in 2010, not as good as Red Bull, but if he had no chance there than why stay? No doubt Webber is good, but to suggest *all* the resources are with Vettel and Webber is still happy to stay there for the *fifth* season in succession with Vettel is not believable.

_________________
The underlying thing about all this,no matter how bright you are,no matter how logical one is or how much money one has,you have to be a completely stupid optimist...I believe there are about 3 million competition licences worldwide. -Perry McCarthy


Last edited by hittheapex on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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