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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Okay, I need explanation for once. I've been seeing a lot of "Adrian Sutil blew his chance".

What does that even mean? Okay, so he had an ordeal in China. All of this talk about his legal issues should not cover the fact that Adrian Sutil was one of the better drivers on the grid. I liked the guy from day one and he did struggle against Giancarlo Fisichella, we all know this and it took him some time to calm down his driving style. He's always had the speed guys and I mean he could possibly be one of the more underrated guys of the field and at one point, I think he could perform better than Nico Rosberg. I think he has the speed and overall skill to be a front runner and all of this bs about him "Blowing his shot away", I think not my friends.

We saw a whole different side to this man in 2010-11 seasons. He looked fantastic and all this talk about him being crash prone... Hmm, I think Korea 2010 was one of the more noteable crashes I remember him in, but did he really crash that much to prone to wrecking? I think not and I really think he needs another crack at F1. Like I said, I would've like to see him at AMG Mercedes team with Nico Rosberg to replace Michael Schumacher, but now they have Lewis and its set in stone. So, I understand the talk between him Sutil and Bianchi. People want to see new blood in Bianchi, but I would like to see Sutil go against Di Resta and see how Paul is now compared to 2011.

I want an explaination on how and why this "Blown shot" occured. All I see is a man who made a mistake and has paid the consequences. I believe in a second chance for all people. A lot of people have gotten another crack at it and I can see him performing at a similar, if not a higher level than Hulkenburg.

Sutil could possibly be a driver who is better than we all think.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:35 pm 
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A lot of people don't do second chances, especially when it comes to broken bottles. He may have had something, but after being away from F1 for a year, it's going to be hard for him to return now anyway, very few do.

He never really stood out to me, but then I never get the Hulkenberg hype outside of Brazil either.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:43 am 
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Rosberg performed respectably against Michael Schumacher. Yes, he had a 3 year break but it was a break from a level that was above and beyond everyone on the grid save Kimi and Alonso in 2006.

Looking at Sutil's performances against team mates, he was beaten by Fisichella who was past his best. Even before he arrived at Force India, Fisichella was beaten by Kovalainen at Renault in the Finn's first season. Sutil beat Liuzzi but it's hard to count that as a feather in the cap. He did finish ahead of di Resta in the standings but given the number of years he was at the team, and it was the Scot's first season, it was too close for questions not to be asked about Sutil's ability.

The less experienced talent, di Resta, Hulkenberg were already nipping at his heels in his team. 3 into 2 did not go, Hulkenberg was being given Friday practice runs and I think he would have got the drive even without the incident in the bar.

Sutil wasn't embarrassing in slower cars, in the same way that Button nor Webber were. The difference is that those drivers were clearly the equal or better than their team mates. Button beat Trulli, Villenueve and Barrichello IIRC Webber was never beaten by a team mate until he found Vettel. With Button and Webber, the feeling was thus that because of their performances against team mates, they just needed a better car.

I think this is why Sutil has been overlooked. He didn't so much "blow his chance," as, I just don't think he was as good as the others who are in the top seats. Even with the odd pay driver, the depth of talent in F1 now is higher now than when Sutil came into the sport.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:21 am 
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hittheapex wrote:
Rosberg performed respectably against Michael Schumacher. Yes, he had a 3 year break but it was a break from a level that was above and beyond everyone on the grid save Kimi and Alonso in 2006.

Looking at Sutil's performances against team mates, he was beaten by Fisichella who was past his best. Even before he arrived at Force India, Fisichella was beaten by Kovalainen at Renault in the Finn's first season. Sutil beat Liuzzi but it's hard to count that as a feather in the cap. He did finish ahead of di Resta in the standings but given the number of years he was at the team, and it was the Scot's first season, it was too close for questions not to be asked about Sutil's ability.

The less experienced talent, di Resta, Hulkenberg were already nipping at his heels in his team. 3 into 2 did not go, Hulkenberg was being given Friday practice runs and I think he would have got the drive even without the incident in the bar.

Sutil wasn't embarrassing in slower cars, in the same way that Button nor Webber were. The difference is that those drivers were clearly the equal or better than their team mates. Button beat Trulli, Villenueve and Barrichello IIRC Webber was never beaten by a team mate until he found Vettel. With Button and Webber, the feeling was thus that because of their performances against team mates, they just needed a better car.

I think this is why Sutil has been overlooked. He didn't so much "blow his chance," as, I just don't think he was as good as the others who are in the top seats. Even with the odd pay driver, the depth of talent in F1 now is higher now than when Sutil came into the sport.


Well said. With the depth of talent that we have in F1 these days you can't give your employers any reason not to keep you or you're out of the sport. So he definitely blew his shot.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:08 am 
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I think hittheapex explained it well there.
One 4th place in a car that was strong midfield for 2 and half seasons is not much to brag about. Other crash prone drivers were sacked much earlier but Sutil had the luck that his team was very patient with him. But in 5 seasons I don't think he showed something extraordinary. I have no reasons to believe he would be anything better than Heidfeld.
So no I rather want to see new blood in F1 than Sutil. But the same goes for Heikki.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:23 pm 
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In order to keep your seat after what happened in china you would have to be more than a replaceable midfield driver, you would have to be the elite few. To get his seat back after being let go in my view will be very lucky no other team i don't think would touch him, its only his past relationship within FI that even gives him a chance of a recall.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:33 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
In order to keep your seat after what happened in china you would have to be more than a replaceable midfield driver, you would have to be the elite few. To get his seat back after being let go in my view will be very lucky no other team i don't think would touch him, its only his past relationship within FI that even gives him a chance of a recall.

Absolutely. He got some experience, but many younger drivers already gained some. Beside that Sutil isn't anything special.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:36 pm 
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hittheapex wrote:
Rosberg performed respectably against Michael Schumacher. Yes, he had a 3 year break but it was a break from a level that was above and beyond everyone on the grid save Kimi and Alonso in 2006.

Looking at Sutil's performances against team mates, he was beaten by Fisichella who was past his best. Even before he arrived at Force India, Fisichella was beaten by Kovalainen at Renault in the Finn's first season. Sutil beat Liuzzi but it's hard to count that as a feather in the cap. He did finish ahead of di Resta in the standings but given the number of years he was at the team, and it was the Scot's first season, it was too close for questions not to be asked about Sutil's ability.

The less experienced talent, di Resta, Hulkenberg were already nipping at his heels in his team. 3 into 2 did not go, Hulkenberg was being given Friday practice runs and I think he would have got the drive even without the incident in the bar.

Sutil wasn't embarrassing in slower cars, in the same way that Button nor Webber were. The difference is that those drivers were clearly the equal or better than their team mates. Button beat Trulli, Villenueve and Barrichello IIRC Webber was never beaten by a team mate until he found Vettel. With Button and Webber, the feeling was thus that because of their performances against team mates, they just needed a better car.

I think this is why Sutil has been overlooked. He didn't so much "blow his chance," as, I just don't think he was as good as the others who are in the top seats. Even with the odd pay driver, the depth of talent in F1 now is higher now than when Sutil came into the sport.

+1

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:37 pm 
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He would never have won tittles but was probably better than half the current grid. People have short memories, on this forum I think he was voted the 8th best driver on the grid in 2011 in dolomites poll.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:42 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
He would never have won tittles but was probably better than half the current grid. People have short memories, on this forum I think he was voted the 8th best driver on the grid in 2011 in dolomites poll.

yes i don't think he was bad by any means but he was a midfield driver, the depth of f1 drivers now even with pay drivers is deeper than ever to keep a midfielder when there are others with less pr baggage is hard. It would be different had it been someone of say Hamilton Alonso or vettels standing who are regarded as the best few, they would have kept their seats probably with severe reprimands by the teams but would have kept them.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Agreed with the depth of talent.

20-30 years ago there just wasnt as many aspiring races. Now there is so many sub series full of drivers with F1 talent its difficult to pick them out, and so many new ones emerge each and every year.

Good, but not standout driver. Made some dumb mistakes and got cut from the sport for it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Sutil was nothing special. It became clear after several years in the sport that he was nothing more than a solid midfield driver but at the same time I don't think he had much sponsorship behind him, which is a very insecure position for a driver to be in. Just ask Kovalainen, Glock, Kobayashi, Heidfeld etc. The midfield teams are constantly on the lookout for the next big star or someone who'll bring cash. Sutil was neither. Then obviously the champagne glass incident didn't help matters.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:04 pm 
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There are only 20 odd jobs in the world for professional F1 drivers, and it does not take much to shuffle the pack. Sponsors want someone they can trot out as a figurehead, so that is one aspect, and owners want points and unbroken cars, unless they get extra airtime, again to please the sponsors.

Anyone who is not better than what else is on offer is on a downer, and anyone who is not 'presentable' by the sponsors is on a double-downer.

Remember, there is only a very small difference between most drivers. It is only the occasional few that have an extra step and can be cut some slack

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:46 am 
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The ways things are going, wonder if Rossiter will take di Resta's seat in 2014? Lol. :-)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:22 am 
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I'm 100% behind Adrian Sutil. I'm hoping Force India don't cave to Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Sutil was a good driver. He never stood out as great but his talent alone warranted a spot on the grid.

When I personally say he blew his chance, what I really mean is that he stabbed someone in the neck. Both from a moral perspective and from a practical perspective having him back in the sport is an absolute no-no.

From a practical perspective he's going to struggle to bring in support from the sponsors. He has a bad image, and his talent is not good enough to wipe that away. To casual fans of the sport, it may be the thing he's best known for. When there are drivers like Kobayashi who can't get a drive, there is absolutely no reason to even consider Sutil at all.

From a moral perspective, he stabbed someone in the freaking neck. Sorry, but I would not want to endorse that behaviour. If Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, or Button did the same, then I'd want them out of the sport as well. No amount of talent makes up for violent behaviour. With the amount of money F1 drivers make then if they can just walk back into the sport after committing a crime, then there is no actual punishment at all. They're set for life once they've paid an inconsequential fine, or a suspended prison sentence which they will probably never actually have to serve. Also, rightly or wrongly, people look up to F1 drivers. It's important to set a good example when you're in the spot light. It's the price you pay for having the best job in the world.


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