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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:47 am 
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So it seems STR have come clean about their plans to switch from Ferrari power to Renault power next season.

Seems they're only switching so it's less trouble for the team. (Using Red Bulls gearbox)

Thoughts on this?

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105416

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:53 am 
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I think reliability of the engines will be the big question for the new formula...but Renault do have plenty of experience in turbos! (as do Ferrari). At the end of the day I think their competitiveness, apart from reliability, will still come down to chassis...I hope to see some big improvements in that regard this year..

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:08 pm 
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So Renault will power 5 out of 11 teams in 2014?

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:41 pm 
:? F1 is slowly turning into Formula Renault. I wish there were more engine manufacturers present...

Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Honda, BMW and Toyota each supplying two teams would be perfect imo.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:31 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
So Renault will power 5 out of 11 teams in 2014?


The Renault powered teams:
Lotus (Main Manufacturer)
Red Bull
Williams
Caterham
along with Scuderia Toro Rosso


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Placid wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
So Renault will power 5 out of 11 teams in 2014?


The Renault powered teams:
Lotus (Main Manufacturer)
Red Bull
Williams
Caterham
along with Scuderia Toro Rosso

Renault have stated that they consider red bull their priority over anyone else, i thought that weird at the time as Renault was the previous guise of lotus, but i guess money and success talks loudest


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 pm 
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potter84 wrote:
Placid wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
So Renault will power 5 out of 11 teams in 2014?


The Renault powered teams:
Lotus (Main Manufacturer)
Red Bull
Williams
Caterham
along with Scuderia Toro Rosso

Renault have stated that they consider red bull their priority over anyone else, i thought that weird at the time as Renault was the previous guise of lotus, but i guess money and success talks loudest

F1 is all about PR for the car manufacturers, they will make whoever is winning their team.

I'm sure if the Red Bull brand ever wanted out that Renault would buy the team.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 pm 
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We'll probably see a few swaps going on.

Like the Williams to Merc rumour, FI to Ferrari, Sauber to Merc.

Then the Honda rumours. Might be BS but Honda have a habit of developing things to new regs even if they aren't intending to carry them through. So who knows who they have been talking too if they are building one.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:04 pm 
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I hope Honda do its a chance for manufacturers to get in on the new regs before engines get properly bedded in i think there could be a be of a development race over the next few years getting the most out of them more established manufacturers the better as cosworth are likely dead in the water after this year.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:11 pm 
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greenwizard13 wrote:
:? F1 is slowly turning into Formula Renault. I wish there were more engine manufacturers present...

Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Honda, BMW and Toyota each supplying two teams would be perfect imo.


The problem is developing F1 engines to the extent that they are competitive is a very expensive business and they don't sell many units. I doubt there is a lot of money in it for a company like BMW, even taking the publicity into account.

If we aren't careful we will end up with garbage like Mechachrome, Asiatech and Playlife. Even the more recent Cosworth and Toyota engines were pretty poor.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:03 pm 
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This move has nothing to do with Renault actually. It is all about TR being RBR sister company.
For next year when it is going to be complex design job for all teams to fit everything into totally different package, TR are not going to be doing their own work as they have done so far. They are going to use RBR gearboxes and other system (possibly hydraulics and electrical and other like KERS. ). They went on record to say that today. And this is mainly why they need to move to Renault as RBR is on renault. This makes it a lot of take it from here and put it there kinda deal between these two sister teams. Internals will be shared and just for technicality of rules, they will have 2 different chassis.
But this is huge advantage to these two come next season as lot of key systems will be shared. This mean twice the data, double test bed, and double feedback.

Frankly there are plenty of other technical partnerships in F1 which mainly focus on 1 or 2 part sharing and resource rentals type of deals, but this is going well beyond that next year. FIA and FOM rather just allow customer cars if this is going to go on like this. Or put a complete ban on things like this which honestly is not going to help F1 in today'c economic climate where small teams simply do not have all resources to compete completely independently.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:07 pm 
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FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.

Yup, its STR-Ferrari now just like it is Sauber - Ferrari. So it will be STR- Renault


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:13 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Toby. wrote:
FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.

Yup, its STR-Ferrari now just like it is Sauber - Ferrari. So it will be STR- Renault

Yep, they were already "Scuderia" with Cosworth engines.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:13 pm 
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Strange to have most of the teams with Renault engines when we are constantly told that they are underpowered compared to Merc and Ferrari. Maybe it's just a cost issue? Maybe they're looking well placed for the 2014 regs?


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:34 pm 
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^^ Probably one of the major reasons for that is because, AFAIK, Mercedes and Ferrari don't have any intention of supplying more than three teams - including themselves, which is completely different stand from Renault's. (French car manufacturer would be happy to supply as many teams as necessary)

That said, Wolff said yesterday 'Fourth engine manufacturer' could join F1.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:17 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
This move has nothing to do with Renault actually. It is all about TR being RBR sister company.
For next year when it is going to be complex design job for all teams to fit everything into totally different package, TR are not going to be doing their own work as they have done so far. They are going to use RBR gearboxes and other system (possibly hydraulics and electrical and other like KERS. ). They went on record to say that today. And this is mainly why they need to move to Renault as RBR is on renault. This makes it a lot of take it from here and put it there kinda deal between these two sister teams. Internals will be shared and just for technicality of rules, they will have 2 different chassis.
But this is huge advantage to these two come next season as lot of key systems will be shared. This mean twice the data, double test bed, and double feedback.

Frankly there are plenty of other technical partnerships in F1 which mainly focus on 1 or 2 part sharing and resource rentals type of deals, but this is going well beyond that next year. FIA and FOM rather just allow customer cars if this is going to go on like this. Or put a complete ban on things like this which honestly is not going to help F1 in today'c economic climate where small teams simply do not have all resources to compete completely independently.

FIA's rule was always specific to complete car, even if parts were the same, as f1 always had engine suppliers since god knows when. that was my understanding of the rule you mentioned. teams with customer engines built their own gearboxes not because of regulation, but for competitive advantage.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:33 pm 
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seesaw wrote:
^^ Probably one of the major reasons for that is because, AFAIK, Mercedes and Ferrari don't have any intention of supplying more than three teams - including themselves, which is completely different stand from Renault's. (French car manufacturer would be happy to supply as many teams as necessary)

That said, Wolff said yesterday 'Fourth engine manufacturer' could join F1.


Also the renault engine throughout last season was widely rumored to be on of the most fuel efficient in the paddock. Meaning less starting weight. However, that side of things will probably change drastically come 2014

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:24 pm 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
This move has nothing to do with Renault actually. It is all about TR being RBR sister company.
For next year when it is going to be complex design job for all teams to fit everything into totally different package, TR are not going to be doing their own work as they have done so far. They are going to use RBR gearboxes and other system (possibly hydraulics and electrical and other like KERS. ). They went on record to say that today. And this is mainly why they need to move to Renault as RBR is on renault. This makes it a lot of take it from here and put it there kinda deal between these two sister teams. Internals will be shared and just for technicality of rules, they will have 2 different chassis.
But this is huge advantage to these two come next season as lot of key systems will be shared. This mean twice the data, double test bed, and double feedback.

Frankly there are plenty of other technical partnerships in F1 which mainly focus on 1 or 2 part sharing and resource rentals type of deals, but this is going well beyond that next year. FIA and FOM rather just allow customer cars if this is going to go on like this. Or put a complete ban on things like this which honestly is not going to help F1 in today'c economic climate where small teams simply do not have all resources to compete completely independently.

FIA's rule was always specific to complete car, even if parts were the same, as f1 always had engine suppliers since god knows when. that was my understanding of the rule you mentioned. teams with customer engines built their own gearboxes not because of regulation, but for competitive advantage.



Yes I know the rule, what I meant to say is that with this level of collaboration (or rather passing of parts and even dictating driver choice and top management decisions of other team ) happening and FIA's in ability to avoid clear sister team advantage on and off the track, it would be better if they just allowed customer cars again back into F1. This way we will see more quality cars on the track with some smaller teams running good fundamental chassis setup and competing much better than what we have seen from bottom 3 teams for last 3 years.

Personally I hate the TR and had more respect for HRT and still have more respect for Marussia and Caterham. TR is just becoming a puppet at this point. More blatant puppet as years go by.


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:28 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.


Sorry, I didn't know that haha. I'll correct the title.

EDIT: If I knew how to...

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:26 am 
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RTR = READY TO RUN sounds like what the rc world calls cheap cars intended for little kids or novices.
Fitting for a crap team like TR puppet team for RBR and vettel


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:30 am 
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Danny_Boy99 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.


Sorry, I didn't know that haha. I'll correct the title.

EDIT: If I knew how to...


If you still want to, edit your original post and it should be just above the comment section. :)

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:24 am 
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[quote]RTR = READY TO RUN sounds like what the rc world calls cheap cars intended for little kids or novices.
Fitting for a crap team like TR puppet team for RBR and vettel[quote]

Eh, not a very flattering to say about Toro Rosso but I guess they somewhat deserved it. Not that they had a chance of going another way around either.
Let's not forget that before being Toro Rosso they were Minardi and with one leg in the grave, so historically they did make some progress from their roots. Anyway, what more can it be expected from a 2nd team, mix it up with the big boys upfront? that will only lead to more suspicion and conspiracy theories. I can only see how everybody would jump to the roof if, per say, a Toro Rosso would slow down at start a Ferrari, for RBR to catch up. IMO I like Toro Rosso exactly where they are now - at the back of the grid. This way, they can't play ball to big sister too much, except when lapped.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:00 am 
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They should have the Buggatti brand in F1. *wishful thinking*


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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:26 pm 
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I think there Force India were thinking of changing power acks from Mercedes to Ferrari.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Danny_Boy99 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
FYI the "Scuderia" in "Scuderia Toro Rosso" doesn't have any direct relationship to Ferrari. "Scuderia" is the Italian name for the stables race horses are kept in. That's why we had Scuderia Italia.


Sorry, I didn't know that haha. I'll correct the title.

EDIT: If I knew how to...


If you still want to, edit your original post and it should be just above the comment section. :)

Renamed on your behalf, Danny Boy.

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 Post subject: Re: STR to RTR?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:37 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
So Renault will power 5 out of 11 teams in 2014?


It is because they make the best engines now, have made the best engines decades ago, and the teams trust they will make the best engines again, contrary to popular myth.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Reading this interview, I can see why teams would prefer Renault engine.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/02/05/2 ... i-allison/
2009 was a ripple, 2014 will be a tsunami – James Allison

“I think one of the lovely things about Renault is they’re a very, very even-handed engine supplier”, “They will be delighted if all of their teams are fighting tooth and nail for pole position amongst one another and they genuinely don’t offer technical preference to one team over another.”

“Not only do they offer this even-handed approach, but they’re also extremely conscious of the fact that they need to make a car that works well in 2014, not an engine that works well, so they want they whole package to work.”, “So they are very considerate in asking the chassis people what we think is important and then trying to bring that to the engine. We certainly feel that we’re given lots of attention by Renault.”


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