planetf1.com

I would say the whole pit crew put there lives in jeopardy every pit-stop. They form a 'cocoon', or an entry-slot for the car to slot into.. All of those members are at risk from other Cars and their own.. 100Km/h is quick.. And in some pit-lanes, theres hardly room for the car to swing in.

Scary stuff.

The jack man is probably safer than those primed to change the rear wheels.

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Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

I dunno why they don't just mandate Air Jacks.

Automatically 5 guys out of the stop.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Interesting question. At first, i was thinking "well, the speed limit is quite slow" but then I realised how fast "slow" is when you are in F1. And the rear wheel guys are basically kneeling down with only 20cm or so between a safe entry and then getting a broken leg or worse.

Does Indy not use a mechanics out only when the car is stopped system? I'm sure I saw it in some kind of American racing on TV.

While it's not likely to kill you, I must say I'd be sh*tting myself if someone drove that fast at me and promised they'd stop just before they touched me. Properly scary stuff.

edit: Best I could find of the incident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8KSgnOntdo

If it were seen to be an issue, they'd change it. Perhaps changing the rules so that the car has to stop before the mechanics leave the garage.

How many times in recent seasons has front jack man been run over though?

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Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Well mandating them would automatically mean the rules changing

BTW I'm talking the type on the car. Plug in an air line and the car pops up. Or indeed it wouldn't be beyond the realms of reality to have a system that doesn't need a man to attach something. A system powered by the KERS batteries for example.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

The trouble with this is if there is a technical problem with these, teams will moan if it always seem to be their own. that is if it is FIA regulated ones, similar to how the fuel rigs were, but another point is, who is going to pay for them to be installed at the tracks? tracks are already paying out lots just to host an f1 race..

I think considering the majority of these incidents are lowish speed impacts resulting in mostly minor injuries, the better option would be better outfits for the crew, I mean look at some of these hard tackles in the NFL, and the ice hockey goal keepers that get hit by those pucks traveling pretty quick, there must be something, someway with all the tech in f1 of creating some sort of suit to protect the pit crew

The jack could be in the car, like in some Touring Cars

Or an mechanical jack design which requires no dude in front of the car.

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..

Minds are like parachutes, they work best when they are open

Nothing needs installed at the tracks. They go on the car

http://www.rogerclarkmotorsport.co.uk/s ... uctID=1985

Generally someone plugs in an air line and the car pops up. All the teams need is a Compressed air source which they already have.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

It would require some major changes to the car design regulations though. The drivers are sat on the floor about an inch from the tarmac, they'd need to have the jack around that, behinds is the engine/gearbox/fuel then in front you've got the nose.

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Warning: The above post may contain sarcasm.

Car doesn't need to be lifted on the nose though. That's just because of the front Jackman. 2 jacks either side in the side pods and two further back either side of the G/box for example would likely be enough. IIRC Indy do it this way.

If Indy can manage it

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

You make a valid point - the front jack man does stand in an odd position given Formula One's constant push for safety. It would be easy enough to have a rule in place saying that s/he can only move in front of the car once it has stopped moving in its box. Would add on maybe half a second to lap times and would greatly reduce any chance of injury occurring in the pit lane.

Of course teams would most likely find a loophole in my basic rule and probably have their front jack operator hanging from a tether so they can be quickly dropped to the floor once the car comes to a stop. Perhaps a line could be painted next to each box and the jack operator cannot cross over it until a light comes on, operated by a pressure pad under the box? Surely it's not out of the question.

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I also have one of these.

I'd seriously consider shin pads or something like that. Didn't the front jack break his leg in that Ferrari incident a while back?

I agree with Toby as well, they could have a rule about the jackmen to move after the car has stopped

How many front jack men have suffered life-altering injuries (ie: paralysis, amputation, etc. etc.)? How many have died?

If you want to have a conversation about safety, why don't you start with facts?

Died?

I don't think anyone has died. I just found the incident I was talking about above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-xcYd8oSMg

Boy, he sure did take a tumble! I bet he never walked again...

Guys in hockey, american football, basketball, baseball, etc. etc. suffer injuries such as torn ligaments, concussions, broken bones, etc. etc. almost every week. If you can show me a track record of serious injury to these front jack men, then you have a case, otherwise it's tedious fear mongering.

I can only remember but a few incidents in the last so many years, in the many many pit stops that have happened. This however doesn't mean that they shouldn't up their safety game if they could.

Why do you have to wait for something to happen to be make change? Have you ever heard of pre-empting an incident?

The good part about this topic is that you don't have to confine logic to Formula One. How dangerous is it standing in front of a car travelling at 60km/h, assuming the driver will stop right on the traffic light line? Sure, almost every time the driver will stop at or well before the line - but sometimes people make mistakes. The saving grace for front jack personnel is that the car usually catches the jack first, meaning the man or woman isn't cut down by the front wing and is only run into by the jack.

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I also have one of these.

I like peoples ideas of jacks built into the cars, they can be driver activated when the car is stationary. The front jack men have my full respect but it really is only a matter of time before one gets seriously injured.

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Official Kamui Kobayashi Fanboy

Invent a jack that can be used from the side, i.e. have two jack men who slide them under each side of the wing.

Other. Pitstops are mandatory, so the front jack man's safety is the FIA's responsibility. The solution is obvious.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota

I've read most of what has been posted. I like the idea of not allowing any crew in the pitlane until the car is stationary (perhaps a link between the cars telemetry and some sort of gate as used in skiing startlines) I do see a problem with this which may be worse than the problem we are trying to solve.
car enters pitlane, jackman (or entire crew) focused on light or gate that releases him/them. NOT focused on any other pitlane traffic. Belts out of gate at top speed, slips into path of car going to box two spaces up pitlane. Nasty.
I believe Brabham used on on-board air-jack when they first re-introduced the refuelling pitstop but this got outlawed (?) the technology exists to make this work and it would eliminate two guys from the corps de ballet.

Actually more than two.

As every Jack man has a back up jack man behind him. So there is 4. Then some teams have two guys to steady the car. So there is a potential 6 guys not needed all by fitting 4 rams into the car.

For all the height that is needed you would think F1 could come up with some small 2 stage rams. Even some that would run of next years KERS batteries. Essentially 4 kick ass solenoids.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Short of having something pop out of the ground and lifts the car up, nothing will change. It's a risk they take. The best they can do is wear shin pads (bet it hurts like hell to take a front wing to the legs!!), steel-toe boots, a decent helmet and have a lot of muscle.

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Compressed air-line jacks like DTM & at Le Mans.

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I know that many like the pressure pot system of the pit stop, and the inherent errors, leading to dramatic race position changes, etc, etc. But if we really want to talk about pit crew safety, in a serious fashion, then the only way to increase safety is via fixed minimum time pit stops (say 10 seconds?) so that there is no time to be lost or gained (except perhaps during a nose change?) by putting others safety at risk and rushing the job! And this includes everything from making sure wheels are on properly, to entering the pit box at more controlled speed (slower?) to ensure over-run of the box can't cause serious injury.

Note: I do not agree with any of the above or the H&S mentality of many things today! Motor racing is dangerous - it says so on the entry ticket for both spectators and participants! For my money, whilst I don't want to see anyone injured - the pit stop and it's cock ups are part of the racing and an integral part at that.
In reality, there are still many ways pit crew could be injured, never mind by driver error - there are too many other factors that can occur - like a jammed throttle, gearbox/clutch disengage failure, etc, etc. FFs, pit crew can be seriously injured away from the race, as by fire, for example....it can never be made 100% safe, most things can't!, so I think all that needs to be done is to minimise risk to a reasonable level as far as practicable - but I don't want the excitement and anticipation of the 'spectacle' of the pitstop to change, if I'm honest.

BTW, for what its worth, (although I don't want to see any changes as I mentioned) perhaps a mandatory pit stop time could be set to run from pit lane entry to pit lane exit - which would also allow for slower pit lane speeds?

Or, for a real show in safety (and circus), put all the mechanics in the paddock, behind a blocked door, like in the skiing slopes. The door to be opened automatically only when the car comes to a full stop, and everybody rushing, jacks, tires and all, to the car.
Man, those would be some really wild pit-stops. Just imagine the dogpile if the pack leader trips over...

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Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.

In such a technologically advanced sport, they should really find ways of automating the darn thing and jack the car up. I mean, it really is not rocket science.

/thread

The jack man is relatively safe in a way. At least he's standing and can see what's coming. If you're on the front right front wheel you're about as likely to get hit, but less able to get out the way cos you're crouching. Most of all I'd hate to be anywhere on the left, particularly rear left. Any contact between cars and you're right in the firing line, and if you're out when the team behind release a car it's likely to come within inches of you.

I've been on about this for years. It seems more dangerous to be a mechanic than a driver these days.

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Klaus Kinski: making me question my heroes since January 2013

Pit crews must have balls of steel. Frankly if you dont want to seriously alter the way pit stops happen in F1, you can only do 2 things.

1. Change jack design so jackman does not have to be in front of the car. Many teams already have design in place the jack man lifts the car and the handle part moves 90° in L pattern so he is out of way and then they just drop the jack and it is withdrawn in smooth fashion to make way for the car. When this is already being done, few little modifications to it, I am sure they can come up with the jack that can be operated without the jackman being in front.

2. Use automatic jacks.

The only other solution is like what we see in stock cars. Everybody is out of way and they come running out only when car is in place. This would be safest, but I dont know if fans are ready to accept that in F1.

you jest but I think you could be on to something here, the idea that the crew are not allowed out until the car is stationary, however you are still at risk of being hit by other passing cars, and no idea if rushing people coming out will cause problems with other cars using the pit lane, particularly on circuits with the more narrow pit lanes, like Monaco

Make them wear shin pads, elbow pads, perhaps some chest protection and a helmet and they will most likely be fine. The jack takes the hit before the man does so that absorbs some of the blow anyway.

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