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 Post subject: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Just saw where Massa set the fastest time by a sustantial amount today at Jerez.
He threw a pair of softs on to see what would happen.
Looks like Ferrari's car is "there", and so is Felipe.
If his performance so far is a bellweather of the future, I'd say that RB and McLaren are in deep dog doo doo this season.
A fast Ferrari along with a fast Felipe spells double world titles for Ferrari.
Oh, did I say that Alonso has not stepped into the car yet?
All you experts who wrote off Massa, please go check your Tarrot cards or what ever you have been using to make your statements.
The F138 has not even scratched the surface yet as the 1st aero will not touch the car until Melbourne.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:05 pm 
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I wouldn't count your chickens. ... Just yet. As its been said its only. ...


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:05 pm 
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nowhereman wrote:
Just saw where Massa set the fastest time by a sustantial amount today at Jerez.
He threw a pair of softs on to see what would happen.
Looks like Ferrari's car is "there", and so is Felipe.
If his performance so far is a bellweather of the future, I'd say that RB and McLaren are in deep dog doo doo this season.
A fast Ferrari along with a fast Felipe spells double world titles for Ferrari.
Oh, did I say that Alonso has not stepped into the car yet?
All you experts who wrote off Massa, please go check your Tarrot cards or what ever you have been using to make your statements.
The F138 has not even scratched the surface yet as the 1st aero will not touch the car until Melbourne.


So because Massa does the fastest lap of the test so far, Ferrari have the dominant package and are going to win races?

This is testing..


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:08 pm 
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testing.. testing... testing.
All you experts who said Massa was a brilliant driver and only decided to show up 5 minutes before the end of last year...


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:10 pm 
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This must mean he'll win the championship.

1 fast lap = 300+ points :D

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:14 pm 
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He was fastest in 2010 and 2011, we saw what happened there.

I hope he continues with his confidence though, I would like to see the big 4 in the WDC running this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Massa 2013 champ, case closed.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:20 pm 
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That time is nothing, it was on soft tires and being compared with what others did on hard tires.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:31 pm 
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at least ferrari isn't as fairy cakes as last year


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
testing.. testing... testing.
All you experts who said Massa was a brilliant driver and only decided to show up 5 minutes before the end of last year...

I'll step up to the plate on that last bit. I have ALWAYS supported Felipe and have ALWAYS spoken highly of him and have ALWAYS said he is very fast but that some things were stacked against him that played on his mind. I have ALWAYS stated that those who talk nonsense about him are clueless and that he showed he has the stuff and the will to be a World Champion. In 2008 when he lost out at the very last second to Hamilton I've always said that he, better than anyone went out and did in that last race everything in his power to earn that title and were it not for a set of wild circumstances he'd be a World Champ where perhaps Hamilton would not. With Hamilton being so highly regarded (myself included) the way Massa battled it out with him showed he was perhaps every bit his equal in terms of skill and speed. On top of that He bested Kimi in 2008 and was on track to do the same in 2009 right up until his accident, in a car mind you, that was about as difficult to drive as last years car was for Alonso and Massa initially. So with Kimi being another highly regarded driver by many, a driver that beat him certainly can't be too shabby himself.

While I agree the OP is taking a bit of a leap here, you are way off base in calling out a great deal of people who have perhaps always been Massa fans and supporters and certainly don't know what you're talking about if you believe that Massa is a joke.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Guess what, all you are correct...
It's only testing.
I know that more than most.
The facts are these.
1. All the Massa haters are now and will be eating crow by their own addmissions.
2. We all saw Ferrari last year at this time.
3. We all see Ferrari at this point this time.
4. Big difference and all of you see this.
5. Watch out RB and McLaren because this time your going to be handed your lunch a lot more than last year.
6. Massa is more than a match for any driver short of Alonso and maybe Vettel but I doubt that.

I want to hear the excuses from the Massa haters after Melbourne.....

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Where's Ashleys sig when you need one.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Testing is not qualifying. It is not to see the fastest time you can pick up, but rather to 'test' the car, and try and ensure that each part of the total mechanical and aerodynamic package 'talk.'

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:14 pm 
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Misinformed wrote:
Testing is not qualifying. It is not to see the fastest time you can pick up, but rather to 'test' the car, and try and ensure that each part of the total mechanical and aerodynamic package 'talk.'

Your right.
Testing is not qualifying when it's about Ferrari.
It is however when you talk to the RB and Mclaren boot lickers.
Mark my words, Ferrari is back and the love fest with RB is fading fast.
My question is, Who is going to suck up to Ferrari this year to try to get Massa's seat next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Wow, I think that's a bit of a stretch. Red Bull are a top team and though they may not be poised to dominate the way they did in 2011, they will be a force to be reckoned with. Vettel is an Elite Driver and Webber not too far off. Horner is pretty sharp and Newey and his army of engineers are always looking to improve the car. Red Bull have their stuff together quite well. Perhaps as good as McLaren and Ferrari and they have bucket loads of money and have become Renault's #1 priority so they will have the strongest Renault Power Plants and the Alternator issues "should" be resolved so they "should" have added reliability and durability over last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Just because everyone else is doing it.



It's testing.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:16 pm 
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if massa is quick then mclaren and red bull are sandbagging! you heard it here first! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:27 pm 
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If you want to analyze sandbagging I'd have to say no one has done it to a greater degree than Red Bull the last 3 seasons. During Friday practice they start out seemingly quick and then everyone else goes quite a bit faster by the end of the sessions. Then come Qualy and they are a good bit faster, usually top 1-2 positions. McLaren don't tend to sandbag. Their business model is to push as hard as humanly possible at all times because they don't like surprises. With them, usually what you see is what you get.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Teams are tweaking the car at this point. I hope Massas form is back. Who knows he may get a contract extension if he performs as well as the end of last season.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:51 pm 
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nowhereman wrote:
Looks like Ferrari's car is "there", and so is Felipe.
.


You cant be saying that this early dude.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Although it's real nice to see that Massa has got his mojo back and is displaying wonderful pace, everything has to be taken in context. For instance, Button did mainly installation laps in the early part of practice, then settled into three long runs. So that gives an indication that today Button and his team were focusing on long runs. The same with Rosberg, his day could be defined as a day of long runs.

This tune is continually repeated... that the first time anyone will see all the cars on equal fuel and giving their maximum will be when qualifying starts in Melbourne, until then..


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:34 pm 
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As a Massa fan, I was happy to see him rediscover his speed as last season wore on, encouraged by the fact he was matching Alonso at the end of the season (although I temper my own encouragement with the knowledge that Alonso was fighting for the WDC, and all the pressure that entails) and glad to see the initial impression of the 2013 Ferrari is positive/that it can put in a lap like that. At the same time, I'm only too aware testing is only three days old, that very little can be made of the times people are posting, and that even if that wasn't the case, there is still six weeks until the start of the season, two more tests, and plenty of time for things to change.

So yeah, I'm encouraged, but until they get to Melbourne...

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:03 pm 
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nowhereman wrote:
Guess what, all you are correct...
It's only testing.
I know that more than most.
The facts are these.
1. All the Massa haters are now and will be eating crow by their own addmissions. <-- Not a fact.
2. We all saw Ferrari last year at this time.<-- Not a fact.
3. We all see Ferrari at this point this time.<-- Not a fact.
4. Big difference and all of you see this.<-- Not a fact.
5. Watch out RB and McLaren because this time your going to be handed your lunch a lot more than last year.<-- Not a fact.
6. Massa is more than a match for any driver short of Alonso and maybe Vettel but I doubt that.<-- Not a fact.

I want to hear the excuses from the Massa haters after Melbourne.....

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Quote:
2. We all saw Ferrari last year at this time.

Yes, we did.

Quote:
3. We all see Ferrari at this point this time.

Yes, we do.

So, if you want us to recognize that Massa has done a great job in testing so far, I agree with your completely.

No reason to jump over the roof with confidence, though. Remember, even Massa said that Button's time Monday was astonishing. As a Button fan, am I supposed to just go an bet my lat nickle at the local bookie?

Quote:
6. Massa is more than a match for any driver short of Alonso and maybe Vettel but I doubt that.

Yes, maybe in a certain one race, Massa can be sometimes unbeatable. Or used to be. Just like Barrichello, Irvine, Coulthard...Not in a whole championship, though. Or at least he did not show that.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:36 pm 
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Ignoring the OP's excessive hyperbole, I still hope Ferrari in general and Massa in particular have a strong season. I want to see them duke it out at the front with both cars on pace, and not just be reliant on Alonso to get them one championship.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Whilst I agree the ferrari is looking much better than the start of last season, it is just testing.

Massa himself has said that he thinks Button's lap is 'incredible' as it was set on a green track with hard tires. It is fun to get excited about things like fastest laps in testing, however look at Redbull. They never come out and dominate the tests but as soon as the season begins...... well we all know what happens.

How good is F1? It's ruined all other sports for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Not regarding the fact that he set the fastest lap yesterday, but Massa was and is a top driver. The accident hindered his career, and I know Alonso is good (maybe the best) but had not Massa gotten hurt in Hungary I honestly don't think Alonso would be that dominating.

2010 he was recovering pretty well until the "Felipe, Fernando is faster than you!" happened in which case he'd gotten himself on rough psychological period of self-hindrance and negative thinking which you all know what that leads to. >>> Stress and Depression.

2011 that Stress and Depression carried along as he was not in able to set any particularly good result which lead to epic MASS vs. HAMILTON accidents (Hamilton was on a rough patch as well), perfect combination. Massa was smashed by Alonso!

2012 - the F2012 a turtle car at the beginning, regarding the fact that Ferrari revolved around Alonso, trying to develop every bit of performance mostly according to Alonso's desires which lead to more frustration for Massa. Until the second part of the season where he STATED dozens of time that his psychological insight changed, and he accepted that he'd been going to the psychiatrist.... then of course the results started to improve, that self-doubt and negative thinking went away and he started to believe in himself and the results started to speak for himself. In Korea and Brazil Massa was faster, but due to the Championship circumstances he had to drive slower to help his team-mate. And, don't forget USA, that was a total joke anyway, kind of bullshit only the kindest hearted people like Massa could take.

So yes, I hope Massa carries that positive vibe and self-confidence with him throughout the season. I'm sure many people will be surprised, but I will not. I believe Massa is that good, even better than JB and Webber for sure, I would mix him in Alonso & Vettel & Hamilton league. I just hope F138 is good, we'll see.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:49 am 
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Massa was massive yesterday.

Wonder how that would translate on raceday


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:29 am 
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From JAF1. Just to put some things in perspective.

About Massa's pace:
Quote:
Rosberg’s time was set on the first lap of a 16 lap run in the Mercedes. He will have had 60 kilos of fuel on board at the time, which is 40 kilos more (equivalent to around 1.1 seconds of lap time) than Massa’s fastest timed lap.


About "long" run pace:
Quote:
So far this week Red Bull have been able to lap most consistently and quickly over a longer run. With Sebastian Vettel behind the wheel of the RB9 for the first time today they were able to complete an eleven lap run on the medium tyre with an average lap time of 1:21.7s – a pace which any other team is yet to show of a run of similar length. As a comparison to the changes in lap times over the course of the week, Jenson Button averaged 1:24.1s over an eight lap stint on the medium tyre, on Monday.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:32 am 
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Rosberg did a 1:17.613 at Jerez during testing last year and he hardly set the world on fire during the season, whereas the fastest lap McLaren managed was a 1:19.464 yet they locked out the front row at the first race. Nobody can conclusively say who has the fastest car until qualifying in Melbourne.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:34 am 
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Aeson wrote:
Rosberg did a 1:17.613 at Jerez during testing last year and he hardly set the world on fire during the season, whereas the fastest lap McLaren managed was a 1:19.464 yet they locked out the front row at the first race. Nobody can conclusively say who has the fastest car until qualifying in Melbourne.


Truth be told Rosberg did that lap with a 2011 car :)


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:41 am 
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mds wrote:
Aeson wrote:
Rosberg did a 1:17.613 at Jerez during testing last year and he hardly set the world on fire during the season, whereas the fastest lap McLaren managed was a 1:19.464 yet they locked out the front row at the first race. Nobody can conclusively say who has the fastest car until qualifying in Melbourne.


Truth be told Rosberg did that lap with a 2011 car :)


You could substitute it with anyone though. Button only managed a 1:20.688, the 18th fastest time and over 3 seconds slower than Rosberg, yet he won the first race.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:45 am 
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Good on Massa! :D

Let's not forget who pays the ferryman. :-|

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:45 am 
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Aeson wrote:
mds wrote:
Aeson wrote:
Rosberg did a 1:17.613 at Jerez during testing last year and he hardly set the world on fire during the season, whereas the fastest lap McLaren managed was a 1:19.464 yet they locked out the front row at the first race. Nobody can conclusively say who has the fastest car until qualifying in Melbourne.


Truth be told Rosberg did that lap with a 2011 car :)


You could substitute it with anyone though. Button only managed a 1:20.688, the 18th fastest time and over 3 seconds slower than Rosberg, yet he won the first race.



I'm agreeing with you, just playing a little devil's advocate :)

On your last reply, I would argue that fast times mean more than slow times (in the sense that you can sandbag a fast car, but you can't make a slow car act like a rocket). But yes, still, "it's testing" and I won't be drawing conclusions at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:08 am 
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Could we have a teller here that counts how many times someone writes "its only testing" ??


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:17 am 
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AS wrote:
09:10 The fire extinguishers are out and spraying. No fire as such, but there was a dense cloud of smoke coming from the rear of the F138.

09:09 Photographers scrambling now for the shot. It appears to be the F138 of de la Rosa, hence the earlier crawl.

09:08 Our first red flag of the day. We're not sure who it is, but the car does not look good. Very, very smoky from the rear.
NWM wrote:
Looks like Ferrari's car is "there"

:lol: Love how life bites you in the donkey

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:48 am 
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Calling him a championship contender after 1 fast lap in testing is a bit premature.

Though i do hope he does better this year. He was awesome at the end of last year and looked similar to his 2008 form. If he can regain that form, he will be dangerous. Though i think that was mainly down to the support he was receiving from the team, since Kimi was clearly off the pace and out of the title hunt. But i can't see him getting that level of support while Alonso is in the team.

And we've yet to see any of the teams show their hand in a competitive environment. But i reckon RB, Ferrari and McLaren will be very close this year, with posisbly Lotus biting their heels.


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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:56 am 
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the incubus wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
testing.. testing... testing.
All you experts who said Massa was a brilliant driver and only decided to show up 5 minutes before the end of last year...

I'll step up to the plate on that last bit. I have ALWAYS supported Felipe and have ALWAYS spoken highly of him and have ALWAYS said he is very fast but that some things were stacked against him that played on his mind. I have ALWAYS stated that those who talk nonsense about him are clueless and that he showed he has the stuff and the will to be a World Champion. In 2008 when he lost out at the very last second to Hamilton I've always said that he, better than anyone went out and did in that last race everything in his power to earn that title and were it not for a set of wild circumstances he'd be a World Champ where perhaps Hamilton would not. With Hamilton being so highly regarded (myself included) the way Massa battled it out with him showed he was perhaps every bit his equal in terms of skill and speed. On top of that He bested Kimi in 2008 and was on track to do the same in 2009 right up until his accident, in a car mind you, that was about as difficult to drive as last years car was for Alonso and Massa initially. So with Kimi being another highly regarded driver by many, a driver that beat him certainly can't be too shabby himself.

While I agree the OP is taking a bit of a leap here, you are way off base in calling out a great deal of people who have perhaps always been Massa fans and supporters and certainly don't know what you're talking about if you believe that Massa is a joke.


I agree with everything you say about Massa; he has been vastly under-rated.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:28 pm 
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The fire has nothing to do about the state of the F 138.
It was tranny related and the fix is already in.
It will be a great season this year as Big Red has arrived with a competitive car.
Massa is on his game which is worthy of WDC contention.
Can't wait till Alonso stretches his legs out in the car.

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 Post subject: Re: Massa
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:55 pm 
There is NO way you can accurately compare teams in pre-season testing, especially at the first test. Teams are running all sorts of different programmes at different times, and none of the cars have to conform with any of the F1 regulations as there is no scrutineering. Anyone could be running underweight or overweight. Or running an engine mapping that is illegal during an event. Or running with any number of devices which are not legal on a race weekend. Heck, Ferrari could strap a damn jet engine onto the back in pre-season testing if they wanted to.

The times in pre-season testing mean absolutely nothing.


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