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Karthikeyan to Force India
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6100
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Author:  mcdo [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

How does he keep getting all this money from Tata?!

Surely they could switch their attentions to someone else, even Chandhok.

Author:  j man [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Would this even make sense from a financial point of view? I can understand HRT and Jordan taking him on as they were unlikely to achieve much more anyway, no matter who was driving the car. But given how closely contested the midfield is, how many constructors' championship positions would Force India be costing themselves by hiring a second-rate driver? And therefore, how much prize money and additional sponsorship through being less competitive overall?

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

j man wrote:
Would this even make sense from a financial point of view? I can understand HRT and Jordan taking him on as they were unlikely to achieve much more anyway, no matter who was driving the car. But given how closely contested the midfield is, how many constructors' championship positions would Force India be costing themselves by hiring a second-rate driver? And therefore, how much prize money and additional sponsorship through being less competitive overall?

Maybe they could balance Kartikeyan by putting an exciting and dynamic go getter in the other seat to lift the team and deliver results.

And I realised how stupid that statement was right after I typed it.

Author:  garagetinkerer [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
j man wrote:
Would this even make sense from a financial point of view? I can understand HRT and Jordan taking him on as they were unlikely to achieve much more anyway, no matter who was driving the car. But given how closely contested the midfield is, how many constructors' championship positions would Force India be costing themselves by hiring a second-rate driver? And therefore, how much prize money and additional sponsorship through being less competitive overall?

Maybe they could balance Kartikeyan by putting an exciting and dynamic go getter in the other seat to lift the team and deliver results.

And I realised how stupid that statement was right after I typed it.

:thumbup: :lol:

on the other hand, it was a shame he never had a half decent car in early part of his career(not that he was going to set world of f1 alight), but anyone who thinks Narain is a good fit now in midfield, has got to be kidding themselves. I'd love to be proved wrong about this, but I don't think that would happen.

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

There is only one reason I would like to see Karthikeyan in a decent seat: so it can demonstrate to anyone who actually believes he's quick but hasn't had the opportunity to show it that he really isn't.

I wouldn't even have wanted to see him racing for HRT again, had they not disappeared, and that wasn't even really a waste of a seat given how far off the pace they were. But the thought of him in FI? Ugh. I could rattle off a list of at least 15 drivers I would rather see partner di Resta this year, be it ex-F1, young drivers, or even a couple from IndyCar/other motorsport series.

Author:  Deep_blue [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

So this confirm how deep is Force India financial crisis!

Author:  garagetinkerer [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
There is only one reason I would like to see Karthikeyan in a decent seat: so it can demonstrate to anyone who actually believes he's quick but hasn't had the opportunity to show it that he really isn't.

I wouldn't even have wanted to see him racing for HRT again, had they not disappeared, and that wasn't even really a waste of a seat given how far off the pace they were. But the thought of him in FI? Ugh. I could rattle off a list of at least 15 drivers I would rather see partner di Resta this year, be it ex-F1, young drivers, or even a couple from IndyCar/other motorsport series.

When Narain originally was trying to get into F1, his record in junior series was comparable to couple of midfielders, and better than some backmarkers. Now, it is too late. It is just that simple. Mind you, if he can get a drive and do what he loves most, more power to him.

However, you're right. At present, there are a bunch of drivers who're perhaps a much better fit than NK.

Author:  Toby. [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Author:  sultanofhyd [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Z3RoadstarTXF1 wrote:
I really have a hard time believing this one, in particular because it would seem they passed up other 'pay' drivers or ones with financial packages (thinking Senna for sure as one) who would bring more in that area than I assume Narain can bring. (In that regard, it would only make sense taking NK over one of those if it also earned some relief from pressure from the Indian government on VJM.)

It would make sense as a good PR move to bring him on as a test driver. If that proves to be the case, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised by such a move.

The other thing, reading this that I thought... if it comes to pass, every other team that has been criticized this off-season for taking on a driver because of sponsors or backing, must be thinking.... why couldn't FI have done this much earlier? It would have made their choices look a good bit better by comparison and probably brought them less heat for the choices they made.


The Indian government isn't even aware that someone called Narain Karthikeyan exists.

Author:  sultanofhyd [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Deep_blue wrote:
So this confirm how deep is Force India financial crisis!


No, it confirms how people are ready to believe in every stupid article with no real source.

Author:  Zekenwolf [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Fishy wrote:
Can you imagine Di Resta and Karthikeyan in the same team, how exciting that would be?


I am getting goose pimples just thinkng about it! :D

Author:  Jo_ [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

No.

Author:  NetWorKzz [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

NO EFFING WAY THIS HAPPENS!

You can't pass on the current list of candidates Koba/Sutil/Bianchi .... NK...REALLY?! Oh well, not like I was rooting for FI anyways, don't like Di Resta one bit..

Author:  Adaemus [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

NetWorKzz wrote:
NO EFFING WAY THIS HAPPENS!

You can't pass on the current list of candidates Koba/Sutil/Bianchi .... NK...REALLY?! Oh well, not like I was rooting for FI anyways, don't like Di Resta one bit..


There seems to be a lot of this about, and for the life of me I can't see what the lad's done wrong.
:-|

Author:  Volantary [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Adaemus wrote:
NetWorKzz wrote:
NO EFFING WAY THIS HAPPENS!

You can't pass on the current list of candidates Koba/Sutil/Bianchi .... NK...REALLY?! Oh well, not like I was rooting for FI anyways, don't like Di Resta one bit..


There seems to be a lot of this about, and for the life of me I can't see what the lad's done wrong.
:-|


The guy has done nothing of note in 2 years of F1. He doesn't make up for his lack of pizazz on the track by being entertaining; he's dull as dishwater. If I run through some of the drivers from last season and why their fans like them:

Button: Nice guy, surprisingly competitive against a very quick teammate
Hamilton: Sheer speed, some controversy with twitter didn't hurt either
Vettel: Entertaining interviews & natural speed
Webber: No nonsense, gems like "first-lap nutcase"
Kimi: As above, but substitute "I was having a sh*t"
Alonso: Determination, natural talent, very fair but ruthless at the same time on track
Massa: Mainly sympathy, nice guy and was quite quick in 2006-9 though.
Kobayashi: What he lacked in pure speed he made up for by being a nice guy and some awesome overtaking
Perez: Surprise results, seemed to be outperforming the car
Hulkenberg: As above but seemed to consistently do well culminating in convincingly leading the race in Brazil.

Apply the same logic to a guy who does nothing exciting on track, has almost no personality and has been convincingly beaten by his teammate twice in 2 years.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Volantary wrote:

Apply the same logic to a guy who does nothing exciting on track, has almost no personality and has been convincingly beaten by his teammate twice in 2 years.



Hows he supposed to do something special in a fairy cakes box car? He maybe did do something special but the directors aren't going to show a blistering lap in an HRT when it's still 3 seconds slower than the front runners.

Convincingly beat 2 years in a row?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/

Formula one disagrees.

As for personality. In the very few times he gets TV time I have found him all right. Certainly Not no personality but a sound decent bloke.

Author:  Laura23 [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

You don't need a decent car to make an impression. Di Resta hasn't beaten a team mate in F1 yet. That's not the sign of a star or a future WDC I'm afraid. His personality is non existant so people just don't have a feeling towards him one way or another. He has no star quality.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Who mentioned Di Resta?

Author:  Sutton [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Volantary wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
NetWorKzz wrote:
NO EFFING WAY THIS HAPPENS!

You can't pass on the current list of candidates Koba/Sutil/Bianchi .... NK...REALLY?! Oh well, not like I was rooting for FI anyways, don't like Di Resta one bit..


There seems to be a lot of this about, and for the life of me I can't see what the lad's done wrong.
:-|


The guy has done nothing of note in 2 years of F1. He doesn't make up for his lack of pizazz on the track by being entertaining; he's dull as dishwater. If I run through some of the drivers from last season and why their fans like them:

Button: Nice guy, surprisingly competitive against a very quick teammate
Hamilton: Sheer speed, some controversy with twitter didn't hurt either
Vettel: Entertaining interviews & natural speed
Webber: No nonsense, gems like "first-lap nutcase"
Kimi: As above, but substitute "I was having a sh*t"
Alonso: Determination, natural talent, very fair but ruthless at the same time on track
Massa: Mainly sympathy, nice guy and was quite quick in 2006-9 though.
Kobayashi: What he lacked in pure speed he made up for by being a nice guy and some awesome overtaking
Perez: Surprise results, seemed to be outperforming the car
Hulkenberg: As above but seemed to consistently do well culminating in convincingly leading the race in Brazil.

Apply the same logic to a guy who does nothing exciting on track, has almost no personality and has been convincingly beaten by his teammate twice in 2 years.

This 100%. I feel as if just because he is Scottish I need to think he's great. But he is not. Decent. No more no less. Why else did he spend so long in DTM?
Plus is reckon he was RAGING that he missed out on another seat for next season. But he isn't good enough.

Author:  pokerman [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Johnston wrote:
Volantary wrote:

Apply the same logic to a guy who does nothing exciting on track, has almost no personality and has been convincingly beaten by his teammate twice in 2 years.



Hows he supposed to do something special in a fairy cakes box car? He maybe did do something special but the directors aren't going to show a blistering lap in an HRT when it's still 3 seconds slower than the front runners.

Convincingly beat 2 years in a row?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/

Formula one disagrees.

As for personality. In the very few times he gets TV time I have found him all right. Certainly Not no personality but a sound decent bloke.

I'm not sure what that link proves?

He was the worse performing teammate and that was against PDLR

Author:  jay2005 [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Laura23 wrote:
You don't need a decent car to make an impression. Di Resta hasn't beaten a team mate in F1 yet. That's not the sign of a star or a future WDC I'm afraid. His personality is non existant so people just don't have a feeling towards him one way or another. He has no star quality.


I think it is too early to judge from the outside Laura without knowing or working within the team on a day to day basis. I do know he is highly regarded within the paddock, however you are entitled to guess on his future of course and you may be right. IIRC, Nigel Mansell was beaten in his first two seasons in F1.

Also his personality is one of a professional sportsman from Scotland similar to the likes of Andy Murray, Kenny Dalglish, etc. Some people just don't 'get it' if you like but having met the latter two i can safely say they are NOTHING like the people you think they are. Remember, this is professional motorsport, this isn't the X-Factor.

Author:  infi24r [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Adaemus wrote:
NetWorKzz wrote:
NO EFFING WAY THIS HAPPENS!

You can't pass on the current list of candidates Koba/Sutil/Bianchi .... NK...REALLY?! Oh well, not like I was rooting for FI anyways, don't like Di Resta one bit..


There seems to be a lot of this about, and for the life of me I can't see what the lad's done wrong.
:-|

Its his attitude, he complains constantly and feels he is deserving of a better drive only without the results to back it

Author:  infi24r [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Johnston wrote:
Who mentioned Di Resta?

Thats who we're talking about.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Thought the thread was about Narain.

Author:  Zekenwolf [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Johnston wrote:
Thought the thread was about Narain.


Narain who? :?

Author:  Laura23 [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Johnston wrote:
Thought the thread was about Narain.

Given there is a small possibility that Di Resta will be his team mate I don't think it's a surprise his name has been brought up. With a Kart/DiRes line up Force India would have the weakest midfield line up by a mile.

Author:  RickM [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

The only reason I'd ever like to see NK in F1 again is for his grin...he always looks so happy...




...Other than that, he has no place in F1 - ever.

I'd rather see Karun Chandhock back - he never even got a chance really. Had half a season in the first HRT, then 1 friday practice in the Team Lotus that ended with him in the wall without completing a corner, let alone a lap.

Author:  froze [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

RickM wrote:
I'd rather see Karun Chandhock back - he never even got a chance really. Had half a season in the first HRT, then 1 friday practice in the Team Lotus that ended with him in the wall without completing a corner, let alone a lap.

I'd rather see drivers get seats by merit and not by the size of their (or their uncle's) wallet. I could probably name at least 20-30 drivers more deserving of that seat than Narain Karthikeyan.

Author:  nktoofan [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

He is shown as "The Fastest Indian" in Indian Oil ads

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

RickM wrote:
The only reason I'd ever like to see NK in F1 again is for his grin...he always looks so happy...




...Other than that, he has no place in F1 - ever.

I'd rather see Karun Chandhock back - he never even got a chance really. Had half a season in the first HRT, then 1 friday practice in the Team Lotus that ended with him in the wall without completing a corner, let alone a lap.



And A German(?) GP in the Lotus.

Author:  theferret [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

RickM wrote:
The only reason I'd ever like to see NK in F1 again is for his grin...he always looks so happy...




...Other than that, he has no place in F1 - ever.

I'd rather see Karun Chandhock back - he never even got a chance really. Had half a season in the first HRT, then 1 friday practice in the Team Lotus that ended with him in the wall without completing a corner, let alone a lap.



Whilst I agree that Chandhok is more deserving of another chance in F1, he was still not up to scratch. He drove in the 2011 German GP, and was WOEFULLY off the pace of Kovalainen. You could argue this was because he stepped into a car he wasn't too familiar with, and it was half way through the season, blah blah blah...but d'Ambrosio, for example, did a far better job against Raikkonen last year in Monza, and he had even less experience driving the Lotus, than Chandhok had enjoyed in the Caterham.

Author:  REPLICATE [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

I would love to see him at FI just because he makes all the races so entertaining and also because I want to see how terrible he is in a Force India, but who knows he might actually do decent like he did in A1GP for a while.

Author:  Anupam [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Laura23 wrote:
OutKast wrote:
Well, Narain wants the second seat. Also, he has more sponsorship backing than he did last season. Its going to be pretty hard to beat with TATA knocking down your door with other Indian sponsorships.

Also, we need to be fair. If he gets this seat, this will be his first time in a decent car in his whole entire career in F1. We have to give the guy a chance before we begin to scrutinze the move Force India will make between Sutil, Bianchi, and now Karthikeyan. I would like to see him in the FI and really see what he can do with a proper midfield car.

Its either this or Indycar because Karthikeyan does not really like Mallaya in the first place... I'm still slightly surprised he would want to go to Force India, but realize the amount of money that can come in with an Indian on the team...

Good luck to Narain!

He's had two full seasons in F1 and in both he was deeply unconvincing against an average team mate. In the 2005 US Grand Prix farce he had a golden chance to claim a podium finish and beat his team mate whilst the cameras were on them but he blew it big time. He is a below average driver who doesn't belong in the echelons of the sport I'm afraid. There are a dozen drivers who would deserve that midfield seat more than he does.


I keep hearing this from everyone, but I distinctly remember Karthikeyan (and team) after the race saying that he lost 4th gear very early on in the race - not much he could do besides try not to lose to the Minardis then.

I could be mistaken, but I genuinely believe he was much superior to Monteiro (not that it's saying much, but P9 on a damp track at Melbourne in Q1 in that atrocious Jordan!).

Author:  Centauri [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

EDIT: Never mind.

;)

Author:  Hakkattack [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

He is Horrible.... Pay drive? Do they just want someone from India on the team?

Author:  Volantary [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Johnston wrote:
Volantary wrote:

Apply the same logic to a guy who does nothing exciting on track, has almost no personality and has been convincingly beaten by his teammate twice in 2 years.



Hows he supposed to do something special in a fairy cakes box car? He maybe did do something special but the directors aren't going to show a blistering lap in an HRT when it's still 3 seconds slower than the front runners.

Convincingly beat 2 years in a row?

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/

Formula one disagrees.

As for personality. In the very few times he gets TV time I have found him all right. Certainly Not no personality but a sound decent bloke.


His teammate, in an identical car, showed very strongly at Spa, USA & Brazil in exactly the same car. Including leading 100% on merit at Brazil. If he hadn't have collided with Hamilton, I don't doubt he'd have won, since that was a pass for the lead. Paul showed strongly at Singapore and Bahrain to give him credit but he looked very much overshadowed from Belgium onwards, one can attribute this to Nico finding his feet at the team. The Force India was far from a fairy cakes car in 2012.

That link you provided me shows he scored about a third more points than Di Resta over a season (Di Resta got around 69% of Hulkenberg's total). To put that into perspective, Kobayashi scored 90% of Perez's total, and people say Perez beat Kobayashi convincingly. It's on a similar level to how Vettel beat Webber or Maldonado beat Senna this season. In 2011, Sutil beat Di Resta by a similar margin percentage wise. Di Resta was a full race win behind Sutil at the end of the season, and more than a race win behind Nico. In a midfield car, where if you score 10 points you've had an amazing race, that's an absolute chasm.

He's a decent bloke with nothing to dislike about him, but there's nothing to like about him either. If you compare him to DC who has a similar voice and demeanor but he often makes sharp quips and has interesting things to say. I saw Paul at autosport live and nothing he said interested me, which was disappointing considering it was the first F1 driver I'd seen in the flesh.

Author:  moby [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Did someone say Karthikeyan was a talented guy?

Please!

Nice guy yes. A good bet for getting a country behind you, especially if you sell things in that country.
A steady undemanding driver even, but I dont think there is any way he can be called talented.

This is of course in relation to F1 drivers, not us normal folk.

That said, FI could do worse unless they are chasing the extra few points, which they should know by now if the car is up to.

Author:  Johnston [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

Volantary wrote:

His teammate, in an identical car, showed very strongly at Spa, USA & Brazil in exactly the same car. Including leading 100% on merit at Brazil. If he hadn't have collided with Hamilton, I don't doubt he'd have won, since that was a pass for the lead. Paul showed strongly at Singapore and Bahrain to give him credit but he looked very much overshadowed from Belgium onwards, one can attribute this to Nico finding his feet at the team. The Force India was far from a fairy cakes car in 2012.

That link you provided me shows he scored about a third more points than Di Resta over a season (Di Resta got around 69% of Hulkenberg's total). To put that into perspective, Kobayashi scored 90% of Perez's total, and people say Perez beat Kobayashi convincingly. It's on a similar level to how Vettel beat Webber or Maldonado beat Senna this season. In 2011, Sutil beat Di Resta by a similar margin percentage wise. Di Resta was a full race win behind Sutil at the end of the season, and more than a race win behind Nico. In a midfield car, where if you score 10 points you've had an amazing race, that's an absolute chasm.

He's a decent bloke with nothing to dislike about him, but there's nothing to like about him either. If you compare him to DC who has a similar voice and demeanor but he often makes sharp quips and has interesting things to say. I saw Paul at autosport live and nothing he said interested me, which was disappointing considering it was the first F1 driver I'd seen in the flesh.


Ignore that post of mine. I foolishly thought the thread was still about Narain.

Author:  Z3RoadstarTXF1 [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

I would say, given Bianchi's showing in Jerez this week, if he misses out on the seat to NK... well, I think that pretty much puts the damper on all the talk of Force India switching to Ferrari-powered motors, given as much push as Ferrari seems to be giving Bianchi, to have the seat end up with this well-connected, well-financed joke, can't possibly go over well with the Scuderia.

I know it would go over well back home, given that he ranks in a lot of top 50 most influential/recognized countrymen lists, and he's been lauded by Prime Ministers, Presidents and Congressional leaders there, but unless he pulls some great racing skill out of nowhere at age 36 that he's not shown before, I can't see it being a positive. Not coming on the heels of a season when the team seemed to be making great strides in the results and showing its self to be an equal of the other midfield teams. Battling for points and podiums with non-countrymen would seem like a better way to represent IMO.

But I know he does have a lot of backing and reading further articles about his plans, it does seem its a driver's seat or none, not test driver or some secondary role. So given the nature of this particular off-season, I would not be surprised to see Force India's lineup be DiResta in #14 and the Gerkin in #15.

(Just from an American perspective, for me it would be the equivalent of a US team getting on the grid... and then of all the possible drivers from the US or elsewhere, doing the cliche PR thing of naming Danica Patrick as 1 of the 2 drivers. It would be good from a PR standpoint and PR standpoint only.)

Author:  Infidelity [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Karthikeyan to Force India

I love how the OP and the article point to the fact Narain Karthikeyan has never had a competitive car.

You want to know why?
Because NK was destroyed by PDR in qualifying (upto a second a lap), and outperformed in almost all races.

My question.
Why does NK need a more competitive car to further prove how awful he is compared to other Formula 1 drivers?

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