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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:32 am 
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Talking about drivers who retired (officially or unofficially) in the 21st century (2000 and onwards). To help you out I compiled a list of all drivers who lost their seat and never got another drive again in F1. Basically which driver you regret not coming back at some point or you would love to see again in the future.


2000: Herbert, Diniz
2001: Alesi, Hakkinen, Burti, Marques, Mazzacane, Enge
2002: Irvine, Bernoldi, Yoong, Salo, McNish
2003: Frentzen, Verstappen, Firman, Wilson, Kiesa
2004: Panis, Gene, Baumgartner, Da Matta, Pantano, Bruni
2005: Zonta, Pizzonia, Friesacher
2006: Villeneuve, Montoya, Monteiro, Doornbos, Ide, Montagny
2007: Coulthard, Sato, Davidson
2008: R. Schumacher, Wurz, Albers, Speed, Winkelhock
2009: Fisichella, Nakajima, Piquet jr., Bourdais, Badoer
2010: Klien, Yamamoto, Di Grassi, Kubica
2011: Heidfeld, Barrichello, Trulli, Liuzzi, Buemi, Alguersuari, Chandhok, Sutil (?)
2012: M. Schumacher, De La Rosa, Glock, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, Petrov, Senna, d'Ambrosio, Karthikeyan (?)

For me it would be
Hakkinen: I don't think the guy lost any speed when he retired, he lost motivation, in a competitive seat he certainly could have troubled Schumacher
Wilson: I think he could have been great if only anyone cared to build a suitable car to his length
Da Matta: I think he really had potential to be a frontrunner, Gascoyne broke his spirit and than there was the accident that caused him a long recovery
Montoya: felt gutted when he was sacked, even more gutted when he decided to do NASCAR, such a waste of talent IMO, one of the most ballsy drivers I have seen
Gene: somehow I rated him higher than De La Rosa, curious what he could have done in the 2009 Ferrari
Piquet jr.: curious what he would have been able to do in a team not being run by Flavio
Davidson: I really wished he woudl have gotten more chances at BAR instead of Sato who wasted that seat pretty much, when he got a chance at Super Aguri he had no chance as the team was built around Sato
Klien: still gutted that Fisichella got the drive over him at Force India, I think he had good potential
Kubica: pretty obvious I think, I keep hoping for a comeback
Buemi: maybe no potential to be great but excellent fighter, very unlucky last year at STR
Alguersuari: a bit the same as Buemi
Kobayashi: for me the best Japanese driver to date

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Last edited by Amon on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:38 am 
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Montoya and Kubica are the obvious ones, both great talents. Heidfeld was also quick and Hakkinen retired too early he could have challenged Schumacher later.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:40 am 
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Gilles and Senna, in the Halloween GP


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:46 am 
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Yep..Montoya, Kubica and Sato for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:55 am 
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Kubica, Kobayashi and Alguersuari.
Maybe Montoya.

All the rest either have had their time or weren't going to prove much anyway. In my humble opinion, ofcourse.

No, add one, but just because I'm Belgian: d'Ambrosio. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:55 am 
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Montoya, Hakkinen, and Kubica! Really sad to see them go :(


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:22 am 
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Montoya can do one. He said on top gear last season that F1 was rubbish.

I'd say Hakkinen and Davidson.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:31 am 
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My choice would be Hakkinen, Montoya, Kobayashi and ofcourse Schumacher

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:38 am 
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Has to be Mika...he was one of the great drivers once he'd matured, and his sabbatical was only meant to be just that...but it turned out to be his retirement. Too soon if you ask me.

It's a shame Ant Davidson didn't get more of a shot, but he's making history for himself at Le Mans so I don't think he's too bitter about it. Besides, he still has a very important role in F1 as Mercedes' sim driver.

The guy that deserves another shot at F1 is Jaime Alguersuari. I think you've been a little unfair to him Amon, so I'm going to make the case for him. He was so young when he was thrown into a car mid-season that he had to do all his learning in public. He was improving all the time, and the second half of the 2011 season (after Monaco, where he was threatened with the sack) he became a totally different driver, getting every ounce from the car. He was cut short before he could reach his prime, and still only 22 he deserves a second shot at F1 more than anyone else on that list.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:43 am 
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Hakkinen without a doubt!

His interviews were the best too!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:45 am 
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Hakkinen and Montoya by far.

I'd also have liked to have seen Wilson in a mid field car for an entire year to gauge his talents a little better.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Montoya and Kubica stick out like sore thumbs in that list.

I think Alguersuari and Kobayashi deserve another shot.

My late 90s favourites - Frentzen & Hakkinen - were big losses for me personally, but I think their respective times had come (although HHF did get the better of Heidfeld points-wise in his final season).

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Has to be Mika...he was one of the great drivers once he'd matured, and his sabbatical was only meant to be just that...but it turned out to be his retirement. Too soon if you ask me.

It's a shame Ant Davidson didn't get more of a shot, but he's making history for himself at Le Mans so I don't think he's too bitter about it. Besides, he still has a very important role in F1 as Mercedes' sim driver.

The guy that deserves another shot at F1 is Jaime Alguersuari. I think you've been a little unfair to him Amon, so I'm going to make the case for him. He was so young when he was thrown into a car mid-season that he had to do all his learning in public. He was improving all the time, and the second half of the 2011 season (after Monaco, where he was threatened with the sack) he became a totally different driver, getting every ounce from the car. He was cut short before he could reach his prime, and still only 22 he deserves a second shot at F1 more than anyone else on that list.


Adaemus, I might not have eleborated on why but I really would love to see Alguersuari get another shot in a different team than STR of course. Look again on my list of drivers who I want to see to get another shot. It was by no means meant to belittle him, on the contrary.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Amon wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
The guy that deserves another shot at F1 is Jaime Alguersuari. I think you've been a little unfair to him Amon, so I'm going to make the case for him. He was so young when he was thrown into a car mid-season that he had to do all his learning in public. He was improving all the time, and the second half of the 2011 season (after Monaco, where he was threatened with the sack) he became a totally different driver, getting every ounce from the car. He was cut short before he could reach his prime, and still only 22 he deserves a second shot at F1 more than anyone else on that list.


Adaemus, I might not have eleborated on why but I really would love to see Alguersuari get another shot in a different team than STR of course. Look again on my list of drivers who I want to see to get another shot. It was by no means meant to belittle him, on the contrary.


That's fine, it was the 'same as Buemi' that bothered me! :lol:

No offense taken, just wanted to make the case for him. He's a very talented young driver and I'd hate to see him end up on the scrapheap at 22.

Still hoping for that Force India seat but my guess is Bianchi is more likely to get it, despite their reluctance to promote him straight into a race seat.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Mika Salo - I think he was unfairly fired from Toyota and he could f had a couple more good years.
Justin Wilson - Was good enough to have a solid career in my opinion.
Ricardo Zonta - Made a huge improvement during his career
Sato + Davidson - both had talent
Klien - To late for him now but I believe he could have really done something
Alguersuari - To young on his debut I think his arc was still rising at the end of 2011
Kobayashi and Sutil - both are better than at least 5 on the current grid.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Montoya, because he was such a damned entertaining guy to watch.

Mika, he was one of the fastest and seeing him against Schumi for more years than we did would have been great.

Jaime and Buemi - I thought JA was better overall, but I'd have thought that someone would take a punt on a young guy who had a huge amount of races under his belt already? I suppose in thsi day and age being cheap isn't enough, you have to bring money which may have let them down in the end.

I'd have loved Montoya and Mika, but feel Ja and SB deserved a punt


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:00 pm 
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The ones I wanted to make a comeback, did.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Dalemac wrote:
Montoya can do one. He said on top gear last season that F1 was rubbish.

I'd say Hakkinen and Davidson.

Montoya, chip, shoulder methinks after Mclaren sacked him

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I have always thought that Mika retired too early. JPM disappointed me when he left F1 but, at the time, I don't think he had a choice &, Robert Kubica, well, what can you say, he didn't really have a choice in when he left F1. But, out of all of them, I do still hope that Robert gets the chance to return. I can always hope :nod:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:41 pm 
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DrG wrote:
I have always thought that Mika retired too early. JPM disappointed me when he left F1 but, at the time, I don't think he had a choice &, Robert Kubica, well, what can you say, he didn't really have a choice in when he left F1. But, out of all of them, I do still hope that Robert gets the chance to return. I can always hope :nod:

Hakkinen was totally burnt out when he retired, he simply didn't have the staying power

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:52 pm 
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In hindsight it was good Häkkinen didn't return after 2001 since Ferrari was so far ahead of others 2001-2004 and the next time McLaren had a really good car was in 2005 and even then it was unreliable. Even in 2003 only Räikkönen's consistency and the new points system allowed him to challenge for the title in a car that was behind Ferrari and Williams. And realistically McLaren was the only team where Mika would have gone to if he had returned. I know there was talk of Mika and Williams in 2004-2005 but it wasn't serious.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Häkkinen
Davidson
Sato
Kobayashi
Kubica
Montoya


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
DrG wrote:
I have always thought that Mika retired too early. JPM disappointed me when he left F1 but, at the time, I don't think he had a choice &, Robert Kubica, well, what can you say, he didn't really have a choice in when he left F1. But, out of all of them, I do still hope that Robert gets the chance to return. I can always hope :nod:

Hakkinen was totally burnt out when he retired, he simply didn't have the staying power

Actually, you're wrong there. He didn't retire because he was burnt out, he retired because he had a young son & wanted to spend time with his family &, at the time, was thinking about what would happen if he got injured if he continued. Listening to him I got the impression he was remembering his near fatal crash at Adelaide. He had already approached Ron Dennis, or The Ron as he calls him, the year before about retiring & Ron persuaded him to stay one more year. Mika agreed to cause there were still two races he hadn't yet won & wanted to. The next year he won those two races & then retired. After retirement & then divorcing his wife, he has since thought that maybe he should have continued. This is from Mika's own mouth, all you have to do is Google it. I did ages ago cause I love Mika & wondered why he retired when he did :nod: .


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:15 pm 
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mds wrote:
Kubica, Kobayashi and Alguersuari.
Maybe Montoya
.

All the rest either have had their time or weren't going to prove much anyway. In my humble opinion, ofcourse.

No, add one, but just because I'm Belgian: d'Ambrosio. :)


Completely agree

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:25 pm 
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DrG wrote:
pokerman wrote:
DrG wrote:
I have always thought that Mika retired too early. JPM disappointed me when he left F1 but, at the time, I don't think he had a choice &, Robert Kubica, well, what can you say, he didn't really have a choice in when he left F1. But, out of all of them, I do still hope that Robert gets the chance to return. I can always hope :nod:

Hakkinen was totally burnt out when he retired, he simply didn't have the staying power

Actually, you're wrong there. He didn't retire because he was burnt out, he retired because he had a young son & wanted to spend time with his family &, at the time, was thinking about what would happen if he got injured if he continued. Listening to him I got the impression he was remembering his near fatal crash at Adelaide. He had already approached Ron Dennis, or The Ron as he calls him, the year before about retiring & Ron persuaded him to stay one more year. Mika agreed to cause there were still two races he hadn't yet won & wanted to. The next year he won those two races & then retired. After retirement & then divorcing his wife, he has since thought that maybe he should have continued. This is from Mika's own mouth, all you have to do is Google it. I did ages ago cause I love Mika & wondered why he retired when he did :nod: .

Fair enough then i guess he achieved what he needed to achieve and was well aware of his own mortality after his near fatal crash

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Kubica > Hakkinen > Davidson in that order.

Hakkinen is second only because he had his go in top team. He won WDCs, and mostly because he wanted to retire. Kubica was almost destined to go to top team or have top 3 car to drive had he stayed with same team. Really gutted for him.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:34 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Kubica > Hakkinen > Davidson in that order.

Hakkinen is second only because he had his go in top team. He won WDCs, and mostly because he wanted to retire. Kubica was almost destined to go to top team or have top 3 car to drive had he stayed with same team. Really gutted for him.

Same here but i still find it a silly thing to do messing about in a rallycar which is more dangerous than F1

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:21 pm 
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The OP's summary of each driver seems to be spot-on in every case.

For me if I had to choose any one driver, it would have to be Montoya; what a racer and fighter. He was too emotionally uncontrolled to cope with team politics. Maybe J-P would have done even better as a single-driver team like Moss. From 1962 to 1966 Clark too was virtually a single-driver team, and errr......possibly Schumacher from 1993 to 2006? Those worked very well for results.

Hakkinen was too tired and I don't believe he'd have done well had he come back.
According to my ratings Gene was very good.

Good thread which brings back memories of many talented drivers dropped from the media.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:37 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Kubica > Hakkinen > Davidson in that order.

Hakkinen is second only because he had his go in top team. He won WDCs, and mostly because he wanted to retire. Kubica was almost destined to go to top team or have top 3 car to drive had he stayed with same team. Really gutted for him.


I would include Hakkinen myself, but Hakkinen didn't lose his seat. He retired himself. I can't say that he should deserve a second chance as he was wronged, like some other drivers

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Not comebacks exactly (or at all) but I wish Mansell and Hill had defended their titles with Williams.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Amon wrote:
Talking about drivers who retired (officially or unofficially) in the 21st century (2000 and onwards). To help you out I compiled a list of all drivers who lost their seat and never got another drive again in F1. Basically which driver you regret not coming back at some point or you would love to see again in the future.


2000: Herbert, Diniz
2001: Alesi, Hakkinen, Burti, Marques, Mazzacane, Enge
2002: Irvine, Bernoldi, Yoong, Salo, McNish
2003: Frentzen, Verstappen, Firman, Wilson, Kiesa
2004: Panis, Gene, Baumgartner, Da Matta, Pantano, Bruni
2005: Zonta, Pizzonia, Friesacher
2006: Villeneuve, Montoya, Monteiro, Doornbos, Ide, Montagny
2007: Coulthard, Sato, Davidson
2009: Fisichella, Nakajima, Piquet jr., Bourdais, Badoer
2010: Klien, Yamamoto, Di Grassi, Kubica
2011: Heidfeld, Barrichello, Trulli, Liuzzi, Buemi, Alguersuari, Chandhok, Sutil (?)
2012: Schumacher, De La Rosa, Glock, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, Petrov, Senna, d'Ambrosio, Karthikeyan (?)

For me it would be
Hakkinen: I don't think the guy lost any speed when he retired, he lost motivation, in a competitive seat he certainly could have troubled Schumacher
Wilson: I think he could have been great if only anyone cared to build a suitable car to his length
Da Matta: I think he really had potential to be a frontrunner, Gascoyne broke his spirit and than there was the accident that caused him a long recovery
Montoya: felt gutted when he was sacked, even more gutted when he decided to do NASCAR, such a waste of talent IMO, one of the most ballsy drivers I have seen
Gene: somehow I rated him higher than De La Rosa, curious what he could have done in the 2009 Ferrari
Piquet jr.: curious what he would have been able to do in a team not being run by Flavio
Davidson: I really wished he woudl have gotten more chances at BAR instead of Sato who wasted that seat pretty much, when he got a chance at Super Aguri he had no chance as the team was built around Sato
Klien: still gutted that Fisichella got the drive over him at Force India, I think he had good potential
Kubica: pretty obvious I think, I keep hoping for a comeback
Buemi: maybe no potential to be great but excellent fighter, very unlucky last year at STR
Alguersuari: a bit the same as Buemi
Kobayashi: for me the best Japanese driver to date


You remembered Da Matta and Gene but not Ralf Schumacher? Hmm. He was a good driver, don't see how anyone can rate his outright speed as any different from Montoyas.

Heidfeld also did pretty well against Kubica, it seems he gets forgotten though.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Not comebacks exactly (or at all) but I wish Mansell and Hill had defended their titles with Williams.


As good a job as Michael did in 1997, I do think Hill would have won the title more easily than Villeneuve. Of course it's just speculation though. Perhaps something like a race to spare, or something like that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:56 pm 
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There aren't any that I wished made a comeback really. Hakkinen maybe, but his heart wasn't in it by the time he left. Wouldn't have been the same had he come back.
The others are all not in F1 because they didn't perform, except Luciano Burti, and Robert Kubica. And even of those two, Burti was a bit average, and Kubica's woes are largely of his own making.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:22 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Eva09 wrote:
Amon wrote:
Talking about drivers who retired (officially or unofficially) in the 21st century (2000 and onwards). To help you out I compiled a list of all drivers who lost their seat and never got another drive again in F1. Basically which driver you regret not coming back at some point or you would love to see again in the future.


2000: Herbert, Diniz
2001: Alesi, Hakkinen, Burti, Marques, Mazzacane, Enge
2002: Irvine, Bernoldi, Yoong, Salo, McNish
2003: Frentzen, Verstappen, Firman, Wilson, Kiesa
2004: Panis, Gene, Baumgartner, Da Matta, Pantano, Bruni
2005: Zonta, Pizzonia, Friesacher
2006: Villeneuve, Montoya, Monteiro, Doornbos, Ide, Montagny
2007: Coulthard, Sato, Davidson
2009: Fisichella, Nakajima, Piquet jr., Bourdais, Badoer
2010: Klien, Yamamoto, Di Grassi, Kubica
2011: Heidfeld, Barrichello, Trulli, Liuzzi, Buemi, Alguersuari, Chandhok, Sutil (?)
2012: Schumacher, De La Rosa, Glock, Kovalainen, Kobayashi, Petrov, Senna, d'Ambrosio, Karthikeyan (?)

For me it would be
Hakkinen: I don't think the guy lost any speed when he retired, he lost motivation, in a competitive seat he certainly could have troubled Schumacher
Wilson: I think he could have been great if only anyone cared to build a suitable car to his length
Da Matta: I think he really had potential to be a frontrunner, Gascoyne broke his spirit and than there was the accident that caused him a long recovery
Montoya: felt gutted when he was sacked, even more gutted when he decided to do NASCAR, such a waste of talent IMO, one of the most ballsy drivers I have seen
Gene: somehow I rated him higher than De La Rosa, curious what he could have done in the 2009 Ferrari
Piquet jr.: curious what he would have been able to do in a team not being run by Flavio
Davidson: I really wished he woudl have gotten more chances at BAR instead of Sato who wasted that seat pretty much, when he got a chance at Super Aguri he had no chance as the team was built around Sato
Klien: still gutted that Fisichella got the drive over him at Force India, I think he had good potential
Kubica: pretty obvious I think, I keep hoping for a comeback
Buemi: maybe no potential to be great but excellent fighter, very unlucky last year at STR
Alguersuari: a bit the same as Buemi
Kobayashi: for me the best Japanese driver to date


You remembered Da Matta and Gene but not Ralf Schumacher? Hmm. He was a good driver, don't see how anyone can rate his outright speed as any different from Montoyas.

Heidfeld also did pretty well against Kubica, it seems he gets forgotten though.


I now realized that I left out 2008, I updated my original post.
Surely I remember Ralf, not bad driver but I always found him overrated. He was not really spectucular IMO and his last year in Toyota was really bad.
I want to add Winkelhock to my list, he got only 1 chance and although lucky he let that GP briefly. He might have been good.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:21 pm 
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However unlikely, I still hold out hope Schumi will make a guest drive in 2013 for Sauber and win his 92nd GP, then just walk having proved the naysayers wrong.

Beyond that, too many to mention individually for me. The ones that leap out immediately that did though are Prost and Mansell.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Amon wrote:
Talking about drivers who retired (officially or unofficially) in the 21st century (2000 and onwards). To help you out I compiled a list of all drivers who lost their seat and never got another drive again in F1. Basically which driver you regret not coming back at some point or you would love to see again in the future.


That was a good list. No doubt about that. But I am like All-American Die-Hard fan and I have some of the few drivers that "NEVER" drove an F1 car. But have driven in the American Open Wheel Scene.

Ryan Hunter-Reay
AJ Allmendinger

Marco Andretti was very young, and yet he was not matured when his dad placed him in an Indy Car after spending his season in a very low Formula series. And all despite testing the Honda F1 car back in 2006 and 2007.

JR Hildebrand would have been a decent addition for the 3 new teams back in 2010 after the USF1 fiasco. He could have been a great fit as a development driver for Caterham (This after changing from Lotus). He may not won the test drive, but he has great potential.

As far as the other drivers who lost their F1 seats:

Bourdais was the best bet and STR should have kept him, instead STR sacked him just like they did on Scott Speed. And I was very ashamed when STR sacked Buemi and Alguesari in 2011. I should call STR "The team of Broken dreams".
JMO (Just My Opinion).

I would love to see Justin Wilson get into an F1 car once again.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:21 am 
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Kubica. It was such a tragedy that his rallying accident was so serious that he looks unlikely to make it back to F1. He was IMO equally as good and as exciting a prospect as Vettel and Hamilton and Raikkonen and Alonso before them. We never really got to see him get anywhere near his potential in a good car.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 am 
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kai_ wrote:
Kubica. It was such a tragedy that his rallying accident was so serious that he looks unlikely to make it back to F1. He was IMO equally as good and as exciting a prospect as Vettel and Hamilton and Raikkonen and Alonso before them. We never really got to see him get anywhere near his potential in a good car.


Whilst it is a shame we probably won't ever get to see him in a good car, I will never forget the drive he turned in at Interlagos 2009. That BMW was a dog pure and simple, and he kept within sight of Webber's RB5 for the entire race. Not too many drives have left me speechless in recent times but that was one. I liken is personality to that of Kostya Tszyu. Humble, softly spoken but with a supreme confidence in his ability. We need more sportspeople like him.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:35 am 
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Coulthard retired at the end of 2008, not 2007. And while I wouldn't wish him back, he did have an unfortunate habit of leaving teams which were WDC and WCC contenders and winners the following year.


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