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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Don't know how many of you have been watching Ted's notebook on sky with regards to testing.

He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car, they just need to get the car within a 10th or 2 of the lead cars and then they know Alonso can beat them.

Thats some belief in your driver, but jesus is that some pressure on Alonso. That game plan doesn't allow any room for error from Alonso.

Wonder how he must feel knowing already his car is probably going to be a 10th or 2 off. I suppose it might be relief when you consider how far last years car was.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:26 pm 
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Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.

Let's just wait what happens. For all we know the Ferrari might be the fastest car, everybody expects none other than Alonso to win the WDC and the pressure on him is so big he starts to make mistakes.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:27 pm 
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gdansk_II wrote:
Don't know how many of you have been watching Ted's notebook on sky with regards to testing.

He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car, they just need to get the car within a 10th or 2 of the lead cars and then they know Alonso can beat them.

Thats some belief in your driver, but jesus is that some pressure on Alonso. That game plan doesn't allow any room for error from Alonso.

Wonder how he must feel knowing already his car is probably going to be a 10th or 2 off. I suppose it might be relief when you consider how far last years car was.


Thing is, these days there's different kinds of fast...

RBR fast isn't speed wise, but is all about corner speed. Then there are other teams who have fast cars but can't corner as well, etc ,etc.

Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:29 pm 
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The Ferrari was good on tyre management last year so i guess they're thinking they will have strong races again this year but just might struggle a little bit for ultimate pace in qualifying

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
gdansk_II wrote:
Don't know how many of you have been watching Ted's notebook on sky with regards to testing.

He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car, they just need to get the car within a 10th or 2 of the lead cars and then they know Alonso can beat them.

Thats some belief in your driver, but jesus is that some pressure on Alonso. That game plan doesn't allow any room for error from Alonso.

Wonder how he must feel knowing already his car is probably going to be a 10th or 2 off. I suppose it might be relief when you consider how far last years car was.


Thing is, these days there's different kinds of fast...

RBR fast isn't speed wise, but is all about corner speed. Then there are other teams who have fast cars but can't corner as well, etc ,etc.

Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...

:D :D :D

I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:46 pm 
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I don't think anyone can plan having a bit slower car than leaders. This is absurd. Ferrari isn't team that will give up before the season even started. They assigned some resources into 2013 car and Ferrari will develop 2013 car along with 2014 car as long as they are in title race. I don't think at this point anyone have any idea which car is the best. Last year Red Bull was rather average amongst the best cars, until Singapore when Newey found a way to blow diffuser.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
gdansk_II wrote:
Don't know how many of you have been watching Ted's notebook on sky with regards to testing.

He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car, they just need to get the car within a 10th or 2 of the lead cars and then they know Alonso can beat them.

Thats some belief in your driver, but jesus is that some pressure on Alonso. That game plan doesn't allow any room for error from Alonso.

Wonder how he must feel knowing already his car is probably going to be a 10th or 2 off. I suppose it might be relief when you consider how far last years car was.


Thing is, these days there's different kinds of fast...

RBR fast isn't speed wise, but is all about corner speed. Then there are other teams who have fast cars but can't corner as well, etc ,etc.

Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...

:D :D :D


Biased... Hmmm, why would you think that Massa's in for the Alonso's support? Come on dude, Massa will be having his own battle for WDC this year.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:56 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:01 pm 
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The thing is, if Vettel was better in an average car, or if McLaren hadn't been so incompetent, or if Ferrari had suffered a 'normal' amount of failure and misfortune, all Alonso's perceived brilliance last year wouldn't have got him into the running. Even if we say Alonso was sublime, it still took unusual circumstances outside Maranello's control to give him the chance he had. I wouldn't want to rely on everything going smoothly again, and Alonso being better than everyone else.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Of course they dont plan to have slower car. But the fact is RedBull has been ahead of everyone in aero for 3 years in a row now and even though everything can change suddenly, it does not happen when rules governing the sport are more or less same from previous year. The one thing that could hurt RBR this year is the loss of DRS in qualifying.
Other than that, their car is going to be good. As good as any other and that is given. I think it will be even more down to driver this year with almost all teams having learned from mistakes of last year. Ferrari does not have good simulator, not does it have full access to their own state of art wind tunnel. These two things can cause some disadvantage even when you have very capable people building you your car.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Balibari wrote:
The thing is, if Vettel was better in an average car, or if McLaren hadn't been so incompetent, or if Ferrari had suffered a 'normal' amount of failure and misfortune, all Alonso's perceived brilliance last year wouldn't have got him into the running. Even if we say Alonso was sublime, it still took unusual circumstances outside Maranello's control to give him the chance he had. I wouldn't want to rely on everything going smoothly again, and Alonso being better than everyone else.

For McLaren you would have to read Hamilton but he's no longer there, average or not the Red Bull still started out a better car than the Ferrari and Alonso was able to make up the difference. Its looking like the Ferrari will be a much better car from the get go than last years car even though probably still not as good as the Red Bull, so i see no reason why Alonso will not be in contention.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:11 pm 
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mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.

Let's just wait what happens. For all we know the Ferrari might be the fastest car, everybody expects none other than Alonso to win the WDC and the pressure on him is so big he starts to make mistakes.


Where did it say Ferrari was downplaying their car? Does Ted work at Ferrari?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:11 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Other than that, their car is going to be good. As good as any other and that is given.


I would be careful in stating that "is given". Mclaren arguably had the fastest 2012 car, but decided to go with a different concept for their 2013 car. They wouldn't do that if there was no big gain to be won from that change.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:12 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:12 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:12 pm 
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bighobbo10 wrote:
mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.

Let's just wait what happens. For all we know the Ferrari might be the fastest car, everybody expects none other than Alonso to win the WDC and the pressure on him is so big he starts to make mistakes.


Where did it say Ferrari was downplaying their car? Does Ted work at Ferrari?


=>
Quote:
He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car.

Your comment would be fitting if the sentence had read "He was saying Ferrari probably accept they wont have the fastest car".


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying


Well we'll have to see about that, right? :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying

This is just your assumption. Vettel failed to get into q3 few times last year. Just because Red Bull had edge during last 5 races, it doesn't mean they had the best car in 2012. We have no idea about this year either.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:05 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Nope!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Gothalamide wrote:
Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...


I still think there's a chance that Massa could win a few races this season. He was racing really well in the last 3/4 races of last season and, if the new car is to his liking (I think he is very car sensitive, like Button), then he may well be at the sharp end, out-racing Alonson on occasion.

He was simply stunning in Interlagos; I couldn't believe some of the defending he did for Alonso.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:50 pm 
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gdansk_II wrote:
Don't know how many of you have been watching Ted's notebook on sky with regards to testing.

He was saying Ferrari accept they probably wont have the fastest car, they just need to get the car within a 10th or 2 of the lead cars and then they know Alonso can beat them.

Thats some belief in your driver, but jesus is that some pressure on Alonso. That game plan doesn't allow any room for error from Alonso.

Wonder how he must feel knowing already his car is probably going to be a 10th or 2 off. I suppose it might be relief when you consider how far last years car was.



a tenth is not much at all... If they were asking him to make up for 3 or 4 tenths then yes that is a big task....


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:51 pm 
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mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.

Let's just wait what happens. For all we know the Ferrari might be the fastest car, everybody expects none other than Alonso to win the WDC and the pressure on him is so big he starts to make mistakes.



:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:57 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.


It seems to me that they are starting out focusing on race pace and worrying about qualifying later. I could be wrong though. Merc went the other way last season and it spiralled out of control as the season progressed.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:07 pm 
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Its not possible to plan to be just a bit slower than the best car, even if it makes any sense.

But I do believe Ferrari will play a bit of a percentage game. They know the cars are very much a continuation of last year and suddenly overcoming RBR's performance advantage is unlikely. They'll probably have a look after the first 5/6 races. If things look good they'll keep going. But if not they'll probably switch most of their focus on the 2014 car.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:51 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying

This is just your assumption. Vettel failed to get into q3 few times last year. Just because Red Bull had edge during last 5 races, it doesn't mean they had the best car in 2012. We have no idea about this year either.

The regs have changed very little for this season unlike the season before so nothing much will change, Red Bull will start near the front

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:59 pm 
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fifthace wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...


I still think there's a chance that Massa could win a few races this season. He was racing really well in the last 3/4 races of last season and, if the new car is to his liking (I think he is very car sensitive, like Button), then he may well be at the sharp end, out-racing Alonson on occasion.

He was simply stunning in Interlagos; I couldn't believe some of the defending he did for Alonso.

Well it would be interesting to see the team dynamic at Ferrari if Massa starts this season as good as he finished last season

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:33 pm 
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XRV750 wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think F1 is about going around corners and not driving in straight lines?


But when you drive an RBR in the pack, straight line speed suddenly becomes a lot more attractive than cornering speed.

Nope!


What do you mean, nope? Please provide insight as to why you think what I'm saying is wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Qualifying sort of makes that not too much of a problem though


Qualifying should be harder for RBR this year given the specific 2013 rule changes.

Its still going to be more or less the fastest car in qualifying

This is just your assumption. Vettel failed to get into q3 few times last year. Just because Red Bull had edge during last 5 races, it doesn't mean they had the best car in 2012. We have no idea about this year either.

The regs have changed very little for this season unlike the season before so nothing much will change, Red Bull will start near the front


For RBR's strategy, there's an enormous difference between 'near the front' and 'on the front row'. All in all the regs haven't changed that much but as for RBR's qualifying the changes are significant.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Well that's not really surprising. Ferrari are being realistic, it would be foolish to think the could over turn the defecit they had to the leaders and then some from last year, given that the regulations are pretty much stable. They may possibly have one of the largest area's for improvement considering pace wise where their car was last season, but even then, it would be pretty far fetched to believe Ferrari made all that time up, whilst everyone else stood still

Ferrari literally don't mean we're going to sit here and be happy with second best, they're going to push just as hard as everybody else to deliver new parts and new upgrades.

That being said, it's still risky putting that much belief in Alonso's abilities. He drove superbly last year, but to say he got into a championship position, due to his own work is not true, he benefitted from others not doing as good as they should of done trackside. I doubt that sort of thing will happen 2 years in a row

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but in order for Ferrari to make it, they need a better car for qualifying.
I felt like we would half donkey qulifying then hope Alosno would make up for it on the start, in which most cases he did. But I think with his amazing starts he would get a huge lead from pole, and we would of won last year.
I also think we would of won if he would of not got knocked off the grid by Grosjean.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
fifthace wrote:
Gothalamide wrote:
Thing is, if Ferrari can make this years car not a dog, then I do believe that Alonso will be right in there mixing it at the front. I also think Massa will be able to help him out too...


I still think there's a chance that Massa could win a few races this season. He was racing really well in the last 3/4 races of last season and, if the new car is to his liking (I think he is very car sensitive, like Button), then he may well be at the sharp end, out-racing Alonson on occasion.

He was simply stunning in Interlagos; I couldn't believe some of the defending he did for Alonso.

Well it would be interesting to see the team dynamic at Ferrari if Massa starts this season as good as he finished last season


Well he was ahead of him on points in both 2010 and 2011 after the first 3 races. Ferrari are a fairer team under Domenicalli than some people would like to think. They'll give Massa a fair chance but if it becomes clear that Alonso is the only chance for the championship (as was the case in 2010 and 2012) then they will back Alonso.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:42 pm 
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The season Alonso had last year was pretty special, both in terms of how he was driving, but also the good fortune he had to only have two DNFs, next to no reliability issues whilst other drivers in the mix did, etc. That isn't to take anything away from his driving - for me, as with many others, he was the best driver on the grid. But if the Ferrari is about where it was last year, even if he drives as supremely well as he did in 2012, you have to think he'll have a little more misfortune. And if that is the case, I don't know if Ferrari can get away with simply relying on Alonso to drag the car to results.

All that said, if he drives as well as he did last year, has another season where he only has two DNFs, and the car is quicker, well, good luck to the rest of the grid...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:53 am 
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If my memory serves me correctly, Ferrari had one of the best cars for the latter part of 2012. Not so much in quali, but in the race.

Based on the cars' performance at the end of 2012, they should be front-runners in 2013. Although, obviously, its impossible to know for sure until the season starts.

Even if they start badly, IMO they generally improve (in comparison to other teams) as the season progresses - last year was a good example. Sometimes though, reliability suffers as a result (2006 springs to mind).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:05 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
If my memory serves me correctly, Ferrari had one of the best cars for the latter part of 2012. Not so much in quali, but in the race.

Based on the cars' performance at the end of 2012, they should be front-runners in 2013. Although, obviously, its impossible to know for sure until the season starts.

Even if they start badly, IMO they generally improve (in comparison to other teams) as the season progresses - last year was a good example. Sometimes though, reliability suffers as a result (2006 springs to mind).


It doesn't matter if you are one of the best in the race when the guy you're fighting for the WDC has the best car, both qualy and race. Also, McLaren was also stronger than the Ferrari. And this is F1, qualy is massively important. Rarely races are won starting from below 3rd-4th for example.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:14 am 
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mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.


Only in his own mind. No one paying attention believes that drivel.

VDV23 wrote:
It doesn't matter if you are one of the best in the race when the guy you're fighting for the WDC has the best car, both qualy and race. Also, McLaren was also stronger than the Ferrari. And this is F1, qualy is massively important. Rarely races are won starting from below 3rd-4th for example.


It is Alonso's own fault that he doesn't have a better ride. His attitude ushered him out of McLaren and he scoffed at Red Bull Racing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:58 am 
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bourbon19 wrote:
mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.


Only in his own mind. No one paying attention believes that drivel.

VDV23 wrote:
It doesn't matter if you are one of the best in the race when the guy you're fighting for the WDC has the best car, both qualy and race. Also, McLaren was also stronger than the Ferrari. And this is F1, qualy is massively important. Rarely races are won starting from below 3rd-4th for example.


It is Alonso's own fault that he doesn't have a better ride. His attitude ushered him out of McLaren and he scoffed at Red Bull Racing.


Alonso and McLaren was not going to work and even if they made it work it wouldn't have lasted beyond 2009 when Alonso's contract with McLaren ran out. No way on earth was he still going to be there even if he stayed after '07. And its not like McLaren has been winning all this time. They had the fastest car last year but it wasn't reliable and their pitstops were poor.

As for Red Bull, nobody saw them coming. Only Captian Hindsights blame Alonso for that one.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:07 pm 
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mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.


:thumbup:

Getting really sick of Alonso just because of this. Sick of Alonso's fans, rather. Alonso's surely a great but people have to stop worshipping him...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:02 pm 
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r41 wrote:
mds wrote:
Oh God, season hasn't even started and Ferrari already downplaying their car. Then when Alonso wins, his status is once again boosted to the sky.


:thumbup:

Getting really sick of Alonso just because of this. Sick of Alonso's fans, rather. Alonso's surely a great but people have to stop worshipping him...

You should get sick of whoever has made such statements, who I think is not exactly Alonso, Ferrari or an Alonso fan. I don't think you can complain of any worshipping in this thread - if anything, what you would have read here is the complete opposite view, as per the post you quoted above.


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