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 Post subject: Why did Montoya quit?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Heres one news I have heard a lot of different versions. He was blindingly fast. He made a few mistakes in the car but then the Mclaren wasnt bullet proof. But WHY DID HE QUIT??
One version of the story I had heard was Nobert Haug did not see him as the face to represent Mclaren Mercedes and their relationship fell apart even more when he was asked to race inspite of his hand injury. That is why he quit.
So what are the other versions.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Because he didn't like the way F1 was going. He didn't like Ron Dennis. He didn't like driving for McLaren and the chances are there was no where for him to go competitively for 2007. Remember Alonso had already been confirmed, McLaren still thought they could keep a Ferrari bound Kimi at that point and had Hamilton waiting in the wings in case, Renault had Fisi and Flavio wanted Kovi to replace Alonso, Honda and Button and Rubens already confirmed, Red Bull were in their infancy, Williams weren't competitive, Force India were still Spyker and Toyota had Trulli and Ralf confirmed. He knew he had nowhere to go really.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:24 pm 
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He was very quick but also very hard work and unreliable. Ultimately he didn't seem to like F1 enough to make the sacrifices necessary. Whether he was pushed or jumped doesn't really matter, he was never going to be in it for the long haul.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Agree with the first reply above, but, mainly, he was just absolutely destroyed by Kimi. :smug:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:34 pm 
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also wasn't he moaning about not being able to overtake / when you tried if you made a bit contact yourd be in the stewards office... and the politics he didnt like


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Montoya had a poor first half of 2005. He matched Kimi in the second half but then in 2006 he was just terrible, worse than ever for Mclaren. I would quite like to have seen him in the other RBR seat with DC but I don't think David would have liked that and JPM wouldn't want to drive around in a midfield car.

I think NASCAR lifestyle just suits Juan better. He doesn't have to worry about his weight and fitness anywhere near as much and he gets to live in the US, where he did a lot of his early racing and is much closer to Colombia.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:54 pm 
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As others have said there were no good options available to him. A very talented driver but I have never bought into his reputation as being "super fast" Couldn't match Kimi and failed to put significant daylight between himself and Ralf Schumacher.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
As others have said there were no good options available to him. A very talented driver but I have never bought into his reputation as being "super fast" Couldn't match Kimi and failed to put significant daylight between himself and Ralf Schumacher.


Or any at all!

And as you say, Kimi was on a different level.

For me Montoya joins a band of drivers like Montoya, Ralf, Fisichella, Trulli, HHF. Good, good enough to win races, but didn't quite have that ultra consistent speed that all the best guys have.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Ultimately he just wasn't good enough in my view. Brilliant on his day but went missing on others, and made some poor errors on some occasions. Raikkonen exposed his flaws up big time.

I was a fan of Montoya because he was massively entertaining but his performances for McLaren were poor overall. He also failed to deliver the 2003 title in what was the best car for a good chunk of the season (along with Schumacher Jr who I also didn't rate particularly highly).


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Didn't Ron fire him half way through the season, when he announced he would be leaving?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:04 pm 
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BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:07 pm 
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nibaru wrote:
Didn't Ron fire him half way through the season, when he announced he would be leaving?

Yes i think thats what happened

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:13 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

If Monty had lasted into 2007 then it would have been Alonso not Hamilton. Even then Monty would have been out and Hamilton in mid season IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:31 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
Heres one news I have heard a lot of different versions. He was blindingly fast. He made a few mistakes in the car but then the Mclaren wasnt bullet proof. But WHY DID HE QUIT??
One version of the story I had heard was Nobert Haug did not see him as the face to represent Mclaren Mercedes and their relationship fell apart even more when he was asked to race inspite of his hand injury. That is why he quit.
So what are the other versions.

I'm not sure about the hand injury but he injured his shoulder just before the start of the 2005 season, i believe he broke it? He was new to the team and its believed he lied about how he broke it saying he tripped over a loose ball whilst playing tennis whereas its thought he damaged his shoulder whilst playing about on a trials bike or something similar, something i'm guessing McLaren preclude drivers from doing in their contracts? So i don't think McLaren were overall impressed by him from the get go.

It basically ruined his season in what was possibly the best F1 car he had the chance to drive and would possibly have given him a shot at the WDC. By the time he was up to full fitness he basically had to play second fiddle to Kimi even though in the second half of the season he was very competitive relative to Kimi.

The following season the car was quite poor and i think without the chance to win races he just lost interest, he also had several collisions with Kimi whom he seemed more determined to beat than anyone else which wouldn't have impressed the team much. The team also had to go down a completely different design path with the 2 cars in 2006 to suit both drivers which can't have helped with the development with the car.

All in all i got the impression the team found him a difficult person to work with and i can imagine it wasn't a happy relationship between the two parties hence they parted ways partway through the 2006 season.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:33 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

If Monty had lasted into 2007 then it would have been Alonso not Hamilton. Even then Monty would have been out and Hamilton in mid season IMO.

Yes thats what i meant can you imagine an Alonso/Montoya partnership? Batten down the hatches.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:50 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

If Monty had lasted into 2007 then it would have been Alonso not Hamilton. Even then Monty would have been out and Hamilton in mid season IMO.

Yes thats what i meant can you imagine an Alonso/Montoya partnership? Batten down the hatches.

Not really. Alonso would have thumped Montoya IMO meaning he wouldn't have thrown his 2007 hissy fit at McLaren at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:08 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

If Monty had lasted into 2007 then it would have been Alonso not Hamilton. Even then Monty would have been out and Hamilton in mid season IMO.

Yes thats what i meant can you imagine an Alonso/Montoya partnership? Batten down the hatches.

Not really. Alonso would have thumped Montoya IMO meaning he wouldn't have thrown his 2007 hissy fit at McLaren at all.

Alonso wouldn't have, but would JPM done instead? Assuming McLaren still had access to Ferrari's data and both Alonso and Montoya had it, would then Montoya been the whistleblower?

Either way, Alonso would have had the support of the team and destroyed our man from Columbia. Like Jacques Villeneuve IMO, an above average driver with too good a reputation.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

If Monty had lasted into 2007 then it would have been Alonso not Hamilton. Even then Monty would have been out and Hamilton in mid season IMO.

Yes thats what i meant can you imagine an Alonso/Montoya partnership? Batten down the hatches.

Not really. Alonso would have thumped Montoya IMO meaning he wouldn't have thrown his 2007 hissy fit at McLaren at all.

I was referring more to the histrionics then suggesting that Montoya would beat Alonso, i'm not sure how much Alonso would have reacted to Montoya driving into him though?

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Montoya had a poor first half of 2005. He matched Kimi in the second half but then in 2006 he was just terrible, worse than ever for Mclaren. I would quite like to have seen him in the other RBR seat with DC but I don't think David would have liked that and JPM wouldn't want to drive around in a midfield car.

I think NASCAR lifestyle just suits Juan better. He doesn't have to worry about his weight and fitness anywhere near as much and he gets to live in the US, where he did a lot of his early racing and is much closer to Colombia.


He did not match Kimi in the second half of 2005. Not even close. He was actually closer to Kimi in 2006.

He won three races in 2005, two of which Kimi had pole but got demoted to 11th. The only race he was near Kimi's pace was in Brazil and Spa.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:44 am 
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Eva09 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
As others have said there were no good options available to him. A very talented driver but I have never bought into his reputation as being "super fast" Couldn't match Kimi and failed to put significant daylight between himself and Ralf Schumacher.


Or any at all!

And as you say, Kimi was on a different level.

For me Montoya joins a band of drivers like Montoya, Ralf, Fisichella, Trulli, HHF. Good, good enough to win races, but didn't quite have that ultra consistent speed that all the best guys have.


I agree that he was a driver good enough to win a few races and get close to a championship but not consistent enough to clinch it. Kimi certainly shaded him too.

I do think though, that he put daylight between him and Ralf. In 2001 suffered far more retirements than Ralf. A few of these were driver errors, but too many of them were clouds of smoke. He was not a rookie in the same sense as a young Alonso or Button, but taking into account the retirements of both drivers, it was a good first season. In 2002 he finished of Ralf while suffering more retirements.

When they had parity in reliability in 2003, Montoya had a clear gap to Ralf by the end of the season. In 2004 they were much closer, call it a draw, but then Ralf suffered his crash at Indianapolis and Montoya left for McLaren.

In one way it's a shame that the potential of Montoya was wasted somewhat in 2006 but in other respects a blessing because it brought Hamilton into the sport in a big way.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:43 am 
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pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

Alonso and Montoya were apparently on good terms, as per Montoya...

Montoya thought he'd be better off at McLaren, away from Patrick but he didn't perhaps consider what a sugarplum Ron can be. Montoya also suggested favouritism towards Kimi, which is not too hard to believe. he didn't like being dicked about and he didn't have much choice in '07, so his exit. I fear for one unnamed driver for the very same reason. f1 can suddenly become very cold very very fast, and if you make a bad move, your career ends circling the drain so fast, the mind it boggles.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:04 am 
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IIRC the McLaren-Montoya relationship reached its climatic end after Indy 2006. There was a massive crash that took out several cars, including both McLarens and McLaren blamed Montoya for it. Montoya called a press conference to announce his move to NASCAR for 2007 about a week after the race without McLaren's knowledge and appearing alongside conflicting sponsors. That was a breach of contract and it's also not hard to imagine Dennis being seriously peeved. So they turfed him effective immediately.

IMO it's no secret that Montoya was really unhappy in the sport. He didn't like the environment, the politics, the way racing worked, the personal fitness requirements, the level of involvement with all the aspects beyond driving the car, the travelling...........the list goes on.

He made a similar snap decision to leave Williams after (I think) the European or French GP in 2003. He had been in a position to win the race over his teammate and in order to achieve this he changed his strategy to pit one lap earlier, but Ralf Schumacher did the same thing and preserved his lead. Montoya was convinced the team had told Ralf of his strategy and screwed him over and cracked it and stormed off the McLaren to ask for a drive there from 2005. I find it hard to judge if his decision to go to NASCAR was a long time in the making and the announcement itself was the result of his fiery temperament or if after that Indy race he made yet another snap decision and pursued NASCAR then.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:01 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:05 am 
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kai_ wrote:

IMO it's no secret that Montoya was really unhappy in the sport. He didn't like the environment, the politics, the way racing worked, the personal fitness requirements, the level of involvement with all the aspects beyond driving the car, the travelling...........the list goes on.

.



You are missing the main reason montoya felt that way and why he gave up, which is because Kimi kicked his donkey. He lost confidence in his ability and the sport is no longer fun when your getting your donkey kicked all the time. If he has been beating Kimi he would have never left. Montoya was an arrogant guy who thought he was the best, and when he realised he wasn't he gave up. The issues you mentioned are just the side effects of the main issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:09 am 
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garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

Alonso and Montoya were apparently on good terms, as per Montoya...

Montoya thought he'd be better off at McLaren, away from Patrick but he didn't perhaps consider what a sugarplum Ron can be. Montoya also suggested favouritism towards Kimi, which is not too hard to believe. he didn't like being dicked about and he didn't have much choice in '07, so his exit. I fear for one unnamed driver for the very same reason. f1 can suddenly become very cold very very fast, and if you make a bad move, your career ends circling the drain so fast, the mind it boggles.


One guy fails to be able to cope with his bosses at both teams he has been. That says more about the employee than the employer in my opinion. Careers do fade fast and like with Montoya I do get the sense Hamilton will not be driving 200 + F1 races. Drivers have often come back from moves down the gird though, Alonso, Schumacher and Prost etc. The most important thing is to continue beating your team mate and turn in a couple of memorable drives.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 am 
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Too many doughnuts...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:08 am 
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Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Too many doughnuts...


On or off-track?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23 am 
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I followed Montoya when he was in Indy Cars & was excited when I heard he was joining F1. In my opinion, where he fell down was coming in to F1 trying to prove that he wasn't afraid of Micheal Schumacher, who was the benchmark at that time. It seemed that any time Michael came anywhere near him on track he would try to prove that he was as good as or better than Michael by making it hard for Micheal to pass him etc, thus taking his focus off just racing & trying to win a race. To my husband & myself, it got so bad that we ended up nicknaming him "big balls".

I also don't think that it's a good idea for a driver with a hot/passionate Latino temperament to team up with a predominantly stiff upper lip English team. I don't mean to insult anyone by that remark but, lets face it, Ron Dennis & a Latino termperament don't exactly go hand in hand, that's why I was so disappointed when I found out that Alonso was headed to McLaren. I always knew it would end in disaster. Some things just don't gel :D


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:55 am 
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Hmmmm Interesting...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:19 pm 
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DrG wrote:
I followed Montoya when he was in Indy Cars & was excited when I heard he was joining F1. In my opinion, where he fell down was coming in to F1 trying to prove that he wasn't afraid of Micheal Schumacher, who was the benchmark at that time. It seemed that any time Michael came anywhere near him on track he would try to prove that he was as good as or better than Michael by making it hard for Micheal to pass him etc, thus taking his focus off just racing & trying to win a race. To my husband & myself, it got so bad that we ended up nicknaming him "big balls".

I also don't think that it's a good idea for a driver with a hot/passionate Latino temperament to team up with a predominantly stiff upper lip English team. I don't mean to insult anyone by that remark but, lets face it, Ron Dennis & a Latino termperament don't exactly go hand in hand, that's why I was so disappointed when I found out that Alonso was headed to McLaren. I always knew it would end in disaster. Some things just don't gel :D


Haha poor Perez!

Although thinking about it a I remember a chap called Senna....


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:40 pm 
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After seeing him getting a bit friendly with Ron's wife in the garage, I knew his card was marked :P


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:48 pm 
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While Kimi was just better than he was in F1, I doubt that bothered either of them, Kimi isn't the kind who falls out with any one, he just doesn't care about other people while racing.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:55 pm 
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VENEKOR wrote:
While Kimi was just better than he was in F1, I doubt that bothered either of them, Kimi isn't the kind who falls out with any one, he just doesn't care about other people while racing.

Oh you can bet your life on it that it bothered Montoya

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Prophet wrote:
kai_ wrote:

IMO it's no secret that Montoya was really unhappy in the sport. He didn't like the environment, the politics, the way racing worked, the personal fitness requirements, the level of involvement with all the aspects beyond driving the car, the travelling...........the list goes on.

.



You are missing the main reason montoya felt that way and why he gave up, which is because Kimi kicked his donkey. He lost confidence in his ability and the sport is no longer fun when your getting your donkey kicked all the time. If he has been beating Kimi he would have never left. Montoya was an arrogant guy who thought he was the best, and when he realised he wasn't he gave up. The issues you mentioned are just the side effects of the main issue.

Yes, I agree with that completely. I just didn't bother to get into it in my post.

It was evident when he cracked it with Williams as well. He didn't like Ralf Schumacher beating him or feeling as though the team wasn't behind him 100%. I also recall Patrick Head being frustrated with Montoya's obsession about beating Schumacher in qualifying, which was compromising their race preparation.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:50 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Montoya had a poor first half of 2005. He matched Kimi in the second half but then in 2006 he was just terrible, worse than ever for Mclaren. I would quite like to have seen him in the other RBR seat with DC but I don't think David would have liked that and JPM wouldn't want to drive around in a midfield car.

I think NASCAR lifestyle just suits Juan better. He doesn't have to worry about his weight and fitness anywhere near as much and he gets to live in the US, where he did a lot of his early racing and is much closer to Colombia.


He did not match Kimi in the second half of 2005. Not even close. He was actually closer to Kimi in 2006.

He won three races in 2005, two of which Kimi had pole but got demoted to 11th. The only race he was near Kimi's pace was in Brazil and Spa.


Canada he was ahead and could have won but for the safety car.
France he was pretty much on Kimi's pace although slightly slower.
Hungary again he was pretty much on Kimi's pace.
Monza he was only a 10th behind in qualy and did what he had to do to win the race.
Silverstone Kimi may have been quicker but Montoya wasn't exactly slow and beat pole sitter Alonso fair and square.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:52 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:56 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
garagetinkerer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
BrazilLastCorner2008 wrote:
Think everyone else already nailed it

Would of been interesting to see him at McLaren in 07 alongside Alonso!

That could have been even worse than the Hamilton partnership, Montoya's relationship with teammates was very poor

Alonso and Montoya were apparently on good terms, as per Montoya...

Montoya thought he'd be better off at McLaren, away from Patrick but he didn't perhaps consider what a sugarplum Ron can be. Montoya also suggested favouritism towards Kimi, which is not too hard to believe. he didn't like being dicked about and he didn't have much choice in '07, so his exit. I fear for one unnamed driver for the very same reason. f1 can suddenly become very cold very very fast, and if you make a bad move, your career ends circling the drain so fast, the mind it boggles.


One guy fails to be able to cope with his bosses at both teams he has been. That says more about the employee than the employer in my opinion. Careers do fade fast and like with Montoya I do get the sense Hamilton will not be driving 200 + F1 races. Drivers have often come back from moves down the gird though, Alonso, Schumacher and Prost etc. The most important thing is to continue beating your team mate and turn in a couple of memorable drives.

Head has a bit of a reputation, I don't know if you're aware of the same. Do you want to go down the list of drivers Ron lost as employees? Montoya mentioned bias towards Kimi, what about that? or, is it easy to dismiss it as Montoya himself was also not without flaws. I personally had gherkin poor line managers, in a row... while I maintain that Head and Ron couldn't be half as unprofessional and total jerks as I have known, but it affects morale and consequently drive and performance.

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5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:20 pm
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Location: Secret Volcano Lair
Wasnt Ron voted the best Manager in UK and Mclaren the best place to work? I think I read that somewhere.... Or did someone tell me this on another forum.... Cant remember

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