planetf1.com

this is also what i remember of montoya's death knell.



i wonder what montoya's excuse to kimi was... it looks like they were arguing. also not how portly jpm is!

Why did he quit? Well, who could stand Ron Dennis for too long? Only Ayrton Senna could.

I was a fan of fatso Montoya, but we can't ignore the fact that Ralf Schumacher (underrated driver) and Kimi Raikkonnen performed just as well as JPM.

By the way, from what i've read on the news, JPM is in pretty good terms with Kimi, believe it or not.

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"No matter how the subject was started, somehow Hamilton's name eventually pops up" -- Blinky McSquinty

Trouble is being almost on the pace of your team mate is not god enough if your going to be considered an elite driver.

Maybe You could just look at the hundreds of employees who have worked successfully for Mclaren or Williams. To be honest in the recent past there have been few top quality drivers that Ron has lost from poor management and surely every team, every company for that matter will lose employees for any number of reasons. In regards to bias towards Kimi it is something I can well believe and seeing as Montoya ruled himself out of contention for the 2005 season it made sense to put all the eggs in Kimis basket for that year at least and Juan would hardly have been the first driver to have to deal with inferior team mate within a team. I have nothing against Montoya and nothing for Ron Dennis or Patrick Head but if a man can't rub a long with either of his bosses then his personality has to shoulder some of the blame.

Mikey, the two names in bold have lost some of the best drivers ever, for some reason or another: Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Kimi Raikonnen, Damon Hill, and the list goes on and on

As far as Willaims were concerned, Prost was replaced by Senna, Piquet couldn't hack it against Mansell, Mansell left the first time because Williams lost their engine deal and performance, the second time he was replaced by Prost, Hill was sacked because he allowed Schumacher to win the 1995 WDC in an inferior car.

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PFI Pick 10 Competition

Current Standing: 16th

Williams I agree have a poor record of keeping good drivers happy. Mclaren I think have a pretty good history of having a good relationship with drivers. All drivers leave teams in the end for one reason or another.

I don't think McLaren loses drivers because of RD or anything in particular. McLaren is an extremely corporate organization by any standards. That environment might not suit a driver who just likes to race, which is actually most drivers. McLaren seems to run with a set of very tight guidelines and probably has many restrictions/constraints that other teams don't.

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I watched an interview sometime back of Prost after he retired where he spoke of his rivalry with Senna during the Mclaren years. He said, the reason why he left Mclaren for Ferrari because at one point he felt Ron was favouring Senna. He spoke of many other instances why he felt that. Thats when half way through the season he announced he was moving to ferrari. After that when one day for some race he came to pits and found that in his side of the garage he had only 5 guys working on his car whereas Senna had 23 guys work on his. That, he said was the breaking point.

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PF1 Pick 10
Aus13: 2nd
Chi13: 3rd

I know i am digressing from the point here but thats just something that came to mind when people were talking about relationship with Ron and Williams

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PF1 Pick 10
Aus13: 2nd
Chi13: 3rd

typical of any workplace

they will do whatever they feel like, as long as they can get away with it

I dunno, I never read Mika Hakkinen stayed a long while and I never read of any ill will towards them.

I am not keen on Dennis myself, there is just something smug about him. I miss Montoya more than any other driver who left F1 in the past decade. A tad more luck and a bit more calmer attitude and he would have been Champion in 2003. I felt he was the fastest driver on the grid in 2003, Schumi and Kimi were more complete though.

He may have been hard work and very hard to please, but as pointed out Dennis has form in isolating himself from drivers, as some of top drivers have left him on bad terms. Plus, Montoya splitting from Williams was overhyped, whilst they had issues Juan himself said it was the money from McLaren that made him leave not any issues at Williams.

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All Time Favorite: Ayrton Senna

Others: Damon Hill
Montoya

Current: Lewis Hamilition

Montoya's combustible nature didn't help him with people like Sam Michael, Patrick Head and Ron Dennis but he talks highly and appears to have good relationships with people such as Frank Williams and Chip Gannasi.

When he was on it, I reckon he was at least on a par with Kimi & Schumi but inconsistency was his achilles heel. Despite having a good shout for the 2003 championship, he was unable to play the F1 game and maximise the package available to him.

On a side note, I read somewhere that as JPM's career will be longer in NASCAR, he stands to earn more than if he stayed in F1.

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http://www.racefan.co.uk

It is not proper to compare employees who have a very short span within the sport, to some other employees. Their careers are capped at best a decade or so, thus it would be wrong to draw parallels with other employees, unless you may be work with percentages of time.

About Ron. Some people are proper dicks. Ron has delved in his fair share of dickery. Didn't Mosley also famously say that "McLaren were penalised $5 million rest was for Ron being a twat"? That is but one example... Alonso also suggested that he left as Ron was making things untenable, and had little or no problems with Lewis. Prost isn't too kind either...

About Head... i have read very little. Mostly whinging from JV comes to mind, but i haven't really heard/ read many complaints from people, but just that he's a lot demanding. He's got a reputation for that, and every article i read about the man, it included a paragraph to that effect. I wonder what Head did with other drivers i would love to read more.

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My Top 5 drivers of all times:
1) Prost/ Schumacher
3) Fangio
4) Lauda
5) Brabham

if you don't like it, too bad! There's a reason why it says "My Top 5"

I think it's probably a personality clash/incompatility with the environment rather than fault related to one party.

Dennis had good relationships with some drivers such as Hakkinen and Raikkonen, but less so with the more fiery prima-donna types of Alonso, Senna, Prost and Montoya. I suspect that the same is probably true of Head. I have read and also had confirmed from a friend who worked at Williams that Frank Williams and Patrick Head very much treated their drivers as just employees rather than anything more significant or special, which is something that some drivers will cope with and others with a different temperament won't.

By contrast, I do wonder how Montoya would have fared had he been somewhere like Ferrari with #1 status and the support that goes with that.

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Formerly kai_

Too inconsistent. Fast at times, but you sometimes would wait for him to throw it off the track. I wish he'd stayed, but he didn't perform well enough to land a top seat, and I believe he's getting paid pretty well now in NASCAR. He's a nice guy, and was at the Miami Heat game Tuesday. PEACE.

He made a foolish decision to leave. I rememeber that Honda and Redbull were interested in him, and its highly possible he would have won a wdc if he joined them. He claimed he was not interested in fighting about in 6th postion, so he joined nascar and has spent the last 5 years fighting for 20th position lol. He had a special talent which he wasted by a stupid decision to leave F1 n his prime, and right before the regulation changes back to slicks that he would have loved and suited his style. I always felt he never fully adapted to silly grooved tyres. Such a waste.

I think people judge him harshly. He raced in a period where the right pit strategy was the common road to winning. He was quick when he first came to F1, but after realising where F1 was going (and in a time when many punters just switched off) he lost his mojo. I can't blame him really. So many of those seasons were bore fests.

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‘Ayrton had taken pole and now Alain said to me: “where the f*** did he find that time? How the hell can he be that quick?” In the corner, Senna…he looked up and winked at me. Ayrton had a look in his eye that said, “I’ve done it.”
Jo Ramírez

They also both failed to attract the services of Michael Schumacher in the mid-90s.

2005 was a bore fest. 2006 was slightly more exciting.

But wasn't the punters switching off time supposed to be during Schumacher's endless dominance? Montoya left just as that was coming to an end.

I can't help but wonder how many fans would agree with that; to me it was one of the few seasons truly worth watching so far this century.

I also can't help but wonder how disappointed with F1 Montoya became, once it must have been clear to him that it it's an industrial circus rather than a sport.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota

Montoya was avery fast, competitive driver. He joined McLaren when Kimi had already been there for three very succesful seasons. To come in to a new team and have that shoulder injury was not a good start for any driver; yet Monty came back and scored three wins. In 2006 when the McLaren was not as competitive, he scored a second and a third place. Comparing his times against Kimi's he was not far off, about where Button has been vs Hamilton. Yet no-one says Hamilton 'destroyed' Button.

There are many drivers in GP history who, like JPM, were very talented, won races but never got to a dominant position: Keke Rosberg, Pace, Gilles Villeneuve, Amon, Peterson, Brooks and Gonzalez coming to mind. None of them can be written off as second-rate, and according to my stats they all raced within 0.2 to 0.3 of the top driver/s of their day. Surtees is another who due to circumstances (car/team) never got to a dominannt position. Of them all he was the fastest, Clark's equal in the years 1961-1966. Unless a driver becomes dominant, he seems to be downgraded in perceptions

JP and Ralf were both very talented fast drivers; in their first Williams season 2001, Ralf was faster, as JP said at the time, 'Ralf has much more experience than me'. Thereafter they were within fractions of each other throughout their 2002-2004 seasons at Williams. Ten wins in those four seasons against the Ferrari team (then probably the most succesful team in F1) and the McLarens eight wins, was some achievement.

Having said all this in support of JPM, I do agree that he let his emotions make decisions on impulse; the Williams team were not against him. Imo he would have been ideal in a one-car team, like Stirling Moss was. Patrick Head reckoned that Mansell and Montoya were difficult to manage because they each felt that any team attention not on them, was against them!

JP made one of F1s best moves in his debut year when he overtook Michael at Interlagos, in just his third F1 race. What a driver. I agree with posters who also miss him almost more than any other.

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http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

Very fair breakdown above from POB.

I think he had it in him to be world champion. If I could go back in history and change a few things in F1, I would have made either Kimi or Juan be teamates with Schumi from 2002-2004. I think the sport would have benefited so much from that.

I felt 2005 was a decent year, 2002 and 2004 are the real snoozefests with how dominant Ferrari was. 2004 is probably the worst with how good 2003 was before it.

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All Time Favorite: Ayrton Senna

Others: Damon Hill
Montoya

Current: Lewis Hamilition

I agree with it. Suzuka was an epic race and the Nurburgring was nail-biting at the end, but other than that 2005 was largely forgettable for me. It speaks volumes that the tyre regs were changed back again after that one season.

Indy 2006 has been mentioned, so I looked it up on youtube as my memory isn't good enough to recall specific incidents from that long ago.

Exciting stuff. Heidfeld's crash looks spectacular and he makes it out like it was just a bit of a giggle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBApgIFYQ2E

I doubt Kimi or Juan Pablo would be very interested in being demoted to the rôle of number 2 driver.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota

I should have added, with the chance to be on fairly level pegging inside the team. It would have never happened I know, but if it would be something I would have liked to have seen.

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All Time Favorite: Ayrton Senna

Others: Damon Hill
Montoya

Current: Lewis Hamilition

That idea wouldnt fly with Kimi or JPM becuase everyone then knew Michael contract had a clause that he was going to be the No 1 driver. Kimi didnt have it. But then his working style it different. Alonso too has the same clause I think. It works well for them that way. Focusing on 1 driver

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Aus13: 2nd
Chi13: 3rd

That is why I put "under equal terms in my next post"

I understand my "what if" situation would have never happened for various reasons, but with talk of how dull certain seasons were in this time-frame, I think that would have been something that would have spiced things up.

Whilst I do not hold it against Michael for maximizing his chances like some do, F1 would have been more fun if some of his advantages were taken away from 2002-2004. His number 1 drivers clause being one of them.

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All Time Favorite: Ayrton Senna

Others: Damon Hill
Montoya

Current: Lewis Hamilition

Do we actually know there was one? Eddie Irvine was favouring Schumacher on a contractual basis. But he left after the 1999 season. Sure Rubens moved over for Michael when Michael was far ahead in the championship, and Michael got some new parts first, but this is no different to Alonso and Felipe.

Montoya quit F1 to race bikes.

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Brazil 1994 Brazil 2012

thats funny - i was gonna say cause he could n't get in one any more - remember mansell , they remade a wider tub , and he only done a few races with it , and quit.....maybe it goes with older ballsy drivers - a bit more in the middle

We don't, but 2002 showed us there's no need to see the actual document, didn't it?
Anyway, Imola 2004 or Malaysia 2002 would have ended differently had Juan Pablo and Schumacher been teammates. A bit like Piquet versus Salazar, I imagine!

Raquello,

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota

yep overall 2005 was very boring. Suzuka was extremely good , Nurburgring had a good finish, and Imola was quite good as well. but that's only 3 races and only Suzuka was really good. the other two...only comparatively. i supported Alonso and he won the championship and yet I don't want a season like that to repeat. it was only better than 2004 because one guy didn't win all the races. but other than that 2005 is the worst season I have seen since starting to watch F1 in 2003.

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2005 boring? I must have watched the Bollywood version of those races, in full colour.

Kimi making up those four grid penalties to score a win, a second and a third and scoring a total of seven wins. Alonso winning seven races too for Renault. Monty recovering from his shoulder injury to score three wins. Fisi winning once for Renault with two more podiums ....

One of the closest and best two-team battles in F1 history, and the emergence of two more great drivers: Raikkonen and Alonso.

Unfortunate that Maranello-Bridgestone did not get things right. Only Ferrari/Schumacher fans could have been bored.

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http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com

You are missing the main reason montoya felt that way and why he gave up, which is because Kimi kicked his ass. He lost confidence in his ability and the sport is no longer fun when your getting your ass kicked all the time. If he has been beating Kimi he would have never left. Montoya was an arrogant guy who thought he was the best, and when he realised he wasn't he gave up. The issues you mentioned are just the side effects of the main issue.[/quote]



Oh geez. Do you even read what you write?

Montoya was the only guy that could hold a candle to Schumacher one on one,he was a great driver but was very unpolitical and undiplomatic.

On his day he was faster than Schumacher never mind Kimi.

Indeed, very good post.

Montoya is barely the equivalent of Ralf Schumacher. In fact Ralf won more races than him at Williams ( 6 victories vs 4 for Montaya) and Ralf edged him in the qualifying teammate battle (32 - 29 ).

At Mclaren he was thoroughly beaten by Kimi...

Montoya was way overhyped. He failed to meet the expectations so he left...