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 Post subject: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Is it preset in the garage, as in. Push front for 50:50 bias, push back for 60:40?


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:57 pm 
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The brake bias switch is located in the car For the driver to use. It depends on what the track conditions, grip levels, the fuel loads etc. These things are taken into account when brake bias is set. Only the driver has the real time feel of the car so he is in a better position to decide rather than the engineers.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Brake bias is one of the few adjustments the driver is allowed to make while under way. It can be a very simple mechanism, a dial, or lever, depending on the driver/team preference. They could even have a lever for some pre-set levels, and a dial for fine-tuning. There is also no reason why it could be a dial on the steering wheel.
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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:41 pm 
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It isn't always adjusted for feel though - sometimes the wall will need the bias changed because one axle is too hot, KERS issues, tire temp/pressures/damage, even diff and gearbox problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:49 pm 
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ashley313 wrote:
It isn't always adjusted for feel though - sometimes the wall will need the bias changed because one axle is too hot, KERS issues, tire temp/pressures/damage, even diff and gearbox problems.

Yes and that too but Bottomline is, its a driver operated switch. Not preset at the pits

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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:11 pm 
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Nothing is controlled by the garage, that's a given.

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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:23 pm 
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OK, in my opinion I think there is bit of confusion here.

I believe that the brake bias is pre-set in the pits depending on the driver feedback in the practise sessions. To find somewhere that the driver is happy.

From there, nothing is then remotely controlled from the pits, but the driver can make on-the-go adjustments to the setting to either move the bias forward or backward using whatever method they have on the car. This can either be a lever or maybe a dial on the steering wheel.


And usually you do here the pit-wall informing the driver they have to adjust the bias as their has been a KERS issue - this is because if they KERS isn't harvesting, it means there is less braking force applied at the rear where so they have to dial the bias to counteract the loss of braking force the KERS harvesting would have applied...

:D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:31 pm 
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i think the intended question was more like: can drivers change the bias all the way they want or can they just perform some tuning, while the main bias is fixed in the garage according to the rest of the setup?

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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:33 pm 
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egnat69 wrote:
i think the intended question was more like: can drivers change the bias all the way they want or can they just perform some tuning, while the main bias is fixed in the garage according to the rest of the setup?



Ah actually is what the guy above said. I meant that. As in, is the switch preset in the garage so that when the driver pushes it front, it gives 50:50 bias and when he pushes it back, it is then set to 60:40 as this saves time fumbling the controls to find the optimum brake bias for the different corners around the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Ferrari was the fist using that and their original version had just 3 settings -- either you leave it alone (center), or push it forward or back before the braking zone, and then it snapped back to center automatically after braking each time.

Lewis, in his first post-Twitter revelation of team secrets, revealed that Mercedes' control has 6 positions while McLaren's had only 3, like Ferrari since that's who they stole it from.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:48 pm 
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Teams do not adjust brakes from the steering wheel because the rules ban any electronic controls in the brake system whatsoever. This is done in an attempt to eliminate the possibility of an illegal ABS system being implemented.


flyer wrote:
...like Ferrari since that's who they stole it from...


I don't understand how people always insert the pro/anti bias into things where it is not necessary nor correct. Not trying to single out Flyer here, this is a general comment about a common occurrence.

In this example: Adjustable brake bias is as old as formula cars. I know of touring cars with preset 3 and 5 position bias setups that were common in the early 80's and I'd bet they were around long before that. To say that one team stole and idea from another when its been in common use for decades is a frivolous accusation.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:59 am 
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ETM3 wrote:
Teams do not adjust brakes from the steering wheel because the rules ban any electronic controls in the brake system whatsoever. This is done in an attempt to eliminate the possibility of an illegal ABS system being implemented.

It's not on the wheel, it's a mechanical lever down by their legs.

Quote:
flyer wrote:
...like Ferrari since that's who they stole it from...


I don't understand how people always insert the pro/anti bias into things where it is not necessary nor correct.
It is correct, it was proven by FIA, and admitted by McLaren. I was not trying to change the subject, just point out that it's no surprise it was the same as Ferrari's 3-position system, since it was originally copied from theirs.

Back in '07 commentators kept observing the Ferrari drivers reaching down and moving something just before certain corners, it was surmised to be a brake balance lever, later confirmed during the investigation into the '08 McLaren where it was found on the McLaren, and it was revealed that Coughlan had obtained the design from Stepney and then called a meeting where he put it up and called it "the brake balance system of the future". It was one of 4 points in the FIA's report on the '08 McLaren, where Ferrari technology was found on the McLaren. Before that, the public didn't really know for sure what it was. Ferrari allowed it to remain, after McLaren volunteered not to develop it any further (that year).

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In this example: Adjustable brake bias is as old as formula cars. I know of touring cars with preset 3 and 5 position bias setups that were common in the early 80's and I'd bet they were around long before that. To say that one team stole and idea from another when its been in common use for decades is a frivolous accusation.


It's not brake bias in general, but the real-time driver-adjustable system that resets automatically, that was an innovation in '07 and adopted by others in '08. The way it works is the driver knows which corners will need a more forward or more rearward bias from the 'normal' setting. Just before the braking zone, they move the lever forward or back, or leave it alone. Whether or not anyone else had something like that before in F1, I don't know, but the Ferrari innovation was that the lever automatically springs back to the middle position after braking, so the driver doesn't have to take his hands off the wheel and move it back.

FIA said McLaren also had some kind of "quite innovative" brake balance system of their own, but it was not like Ferrari's. After they saw the designs of Ferrari's, they threw out their own and copied it for their next car.


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:06 am 
Some say that crazy 43 year olds use it while inside the Piscine corners on their way to Monaco pole...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-QdCMkd0lA


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 Post subject: Re: Brake Bias Switch..
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:45 am 
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greenwizard13 wrote:
Some say that crazy 43 year olds use it while inside the Piscine corners on their way to Monaco pole...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-QdCMkd0lA


Epic :thumbup:


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