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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:49 pm 
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http://www.pitpass.com/48398-Alguersuari-F1-has-become-an-auction
Gotta feel for the guy. He was good in the Toro Rosso and looked like the best replacement for Mark Webber. Hope he gets a seat in 2014.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:01 pm 
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TBH he won't do himself any favours in F1 hitting out at teams like that. Ok he didn't do too badly at Toro Rosso but he didn't set the world alight either. He didn't beat Buemi convincingly and people seemed to think Buemi wasn't a driver to be highly rated. So really it wasn't a shock to see all change at STR for 2012 as much as we might have wanted him to stay, he just didn't do enough at the end of the day, not when there were the Ricciardo's waiting for a shot.

As for his "contract" with the points scoring team... Well more fool him IMO. In F1 a verbal contract means sweet FA. If he thought that meant he was certain of being in F1 this year then he is an idiot frankly. Especially when he knew how the economic climate was, there was always a chance said team would have to succumb to hiring someone with cash to give. He should have to the deal in writing before shooting his mouth off that he had a seat. Simple as that.

I don't think we'll see him back in F1.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Good read, as much as love watching Webber race being Aussie and all, I'd have to agree :race2win...., alg was looking good and its sad to see these type of comments coming from formula1. Alguersuari has in my opinion been much better then most of the rookies put on of lately and deserved much more. All the best and hope that drive he's chasing comes around.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:17 pm 
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I am glad Jaime said what he thinks as its always more interesting than a load of PR bollocks. What he says through most of it is often true but he has to realize the roll Toro Ross plays in F1 and that is to blood new drivers in the sport. It was Red Bull who gave him his chance in F1 so he should be at least thankful to them for that. I think he has time on his side at only 22 and I believe he deserves another chance so I hope something comes up for him.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:53 pm 
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@Laura23:
Alguersuari's Points: 0-5-26
Buemi's Points: 6-8-15
Overall Points wise, for 3 season, they were pretty equal but Alguersuari had much better speed than Buemi. And compared to Ricciardo, Alguersuari was way better IMO.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
@Laura23:
Alguersuari's Points: 0-5-26
Buemi's Points: 6-8-15
Overall Points wise, for 3 season, they were pretty equal but Alguersuari had much better speed than Buemi. And compared to Ricciardo, Alguersuari was way better IMO.

We have no idea if Ricciardo is better or worse than Jaime. None at all.

The point was that STR wanted to evaluate new drivers and to do that they had to get rid of some. That's just the way of the world and yes it can be unfair but crying to the press about it won't do Jaime any good. If he had done something special, stuck it on the podium, scored points in the majority of races, qualified in the top 8 all the time etc then they would have kept him. They didn't see anything special in him. He knew RB were tough on young drivers when he joined, he knew it would be bloody hard to impress Berger, Marko etc. He got his chance because they booted out Bourdais remember, I bet he didn't think it was unfair of them then.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:55 pm 
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STR didnt want to evaluate anything. They are glorified F1 simulator by their own admission. RBR wanted to evaluate new drivers. And there is nothing wrong. BUt from the impression given by both Buemi and Jaime Alguersuari, RBR kept them under impression that they will have another go until it was too late to go anywhere else last year. When you have academy drivers who depend solely on you, you gotta give them better heads up if you plan to boot them out.
I really hope he and Buemi get another chance in a decent F1 car. To think of it, this guy is still way too young to be discounted like he was after giving the performance he did in his final year. I mean he was just 20-21 years old in his last year. And he was far from being incompetent. In fact had shown remarkable improvement.
He has still shown remarkable restraint by not naming the team that screwed him over(as per his belief). I dont see anything in that article to harm his future prospects.
I wont hold F1 becoming a circus against F1 community though, times are bad, top teams are doing well and they have to adapt. I am little surprised that Jaime didnt look for sponsors or not many sponsors backed him for this year. He is very popular even outside F1 bubble thanks to his alternate career/hobby.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:49 pm 
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Jaime had his chance in F1, and whilst he wasn't exactly awful, he was another one of those drivers who was good from time to time, but went missing far too often.

That to be fair to Jaime may be due to his age, the guy is still ridiculously young but at the same time, he had 3 years, and whilst no driver is the finished product at 22, he failed to leave enough of an impression for him to retain his seat.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Algeursauri needs to go back to GP2 and show some domination like Grosjean did.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:25 pm 
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I think he needs to grow up and act like an adult, or get a better manager at least.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Oh dear, everyone's getting precious again.

He's a very talented young driver. He's 22. 22! For context, Mark Webber debuted at 25, Damon Hill was 32 for goodness sake.

Jaime has a future in the sport, he should have been on the grid last year, let alone this year, but as long as Pirelli stick with him at least he's staying active and keeping a trump card in his hand.

He has every right to be angry, a verbal contract is legally binding in many countries, and he was essentially lied to about the drive for 2013. It saddens me to see drivers like Sutil getting testing time, and possibly a drive, when talented young drivers who've never glassed anyone are sitting on the sidelines.

We know Red Bull aren't anywhere close to their 'cool guy underdog' image, but they have ditched too many drivers to get away without inquisition. I hope Jaime stays positive and keeps trying. If I were a team boss I'd hire him over any of the other contenders out there, and I'm sure I'm not the only one...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:10 pm 
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A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Yeap. I'm surprised someone close to him be it a friend or a manager didn't realize how flimsy and easily refutable verbal contracts are. Unless Jaime has recorded proof of the agreement, he hasn't got anything to complain about.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:20 pm 
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For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:56 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.


The blocking argument is in my opinion irrelevant, for the sole reason it was in practice, not qualifying or the race, practice. If RBR want to try and find Webbers replacement then Torro Rosso should have free reign in practice, as obviously in qualy drivers are penalised for holding other drivers up, but in practice? Marko was way over the top and Alguersuari went up in my opinion when he spoke back to Marko as Alguersuari was entitled to be on the track and seemed to be on a quick lap so why should be be penalised just to let Vettel through for no gain?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:10 pm 
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It really does baffle me how decent drivers like Alguersuari get sidelined in favour of numpties with a few sponsors in tow.

Surely F1 could do something about the talent that goes to waste in favour of a rent-a-driver. I know its nothing new having pay drivers, but at the moment it does feel like a lot of the grid are paying to be there (one way or another) and in a lot of cases are just making up the numbers.

Maybe I'm missing some obvious pay driver talent that'll go on to be the next generation webber/alonso/button/hamilton etc... But I just don't see it at the moment, and we're in danger of going from a 6 world champions fighting for the title era into a "They're alright aren't they" kinda era.

Anyway Jaime should have a race seat, it'll be a shame if he doesn't return to one soon...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:15 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Well to be fair you rarely sympathise with anyone or anything...but in a grown ups world an agreement means something, Jaime was promised something that didn't materialise, and no-use-ers are sitting pretty with places on the 2013 grid.

You live and you learn, and he won't make the same mistake again...next time, he will get it in writing.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:21 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Well to be fair you rarely sympathise with anyone or anything...but in a grown ups world an agreement means something, Jaime was promised something that didn't materialise, and no-use-ers are sitting pretty with places on the 2013 grid.

You live and you learn, and he won't make the same mistake again...next time, he will get it in writing.

Formula One isn't called the piranha club for nothing. Jaime knew that, all the drivers know it. If he thought that a verbal contract meant anything in a world as selfish and money driven as the F1 one then he is a fool. Simple as that and it may have cost him his F1 career.

As for the dig towards me, I wouldn't if I were you. My understanding is not to make things personal on here...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Adaemus wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Well to be fair you rarely sympathise with anyone or anything...but in a grown ups world an agreement means something, Jaime was promised something that didn't materialise, and no-use-ers are sitting pretty with places on the 2013 grid.

You live and you learn, and he won't make the same mistake again...next time, he will get it in writing.

I agree wit you a verbal contract is binding no matter if its renting a house or F1. But there are some things to think about. Maybe they said to him it's likely you will get the drive rather than you will. And also if they said you will get the drive you could try and persue it its difficult be if you won and got the drive it may not be nice place to work. As I wrote this I just wondered if they did promise it could he claim for loss of earnings ie not getting a drive elsewhere ?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Well to be fair you rarely sympathise with anyone or anything...but in a grown ups world an agreement means something, Jaime was promised something that didn't materialise, and no-use-ers are sitting pretty with places on the 2013 grid.

You live and you learn, and he won't make the same mistake again...next time, he will get it in writing.

Formula One isn't called the piranha club for nothing. Jaime knew that, all the drivers know it. If he thought that a verbal contract meant anything in a world as selfish and money driven as the F1 one then he is a fool. Simple as that and it may have cost him his F1 career.

As for the dig towards me, I wouldn't if I were you. My understanding is not to make things personal on here...


Nothing personal, just an observation. I still think he'll have a future in F1, he's too good a driver to be left on the sidelines at 22. Might have to do a Grosjean and prove his stuff in the lower formulae though. I just hope his pride doesn't count against him in the long run.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:47 am 
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People seem to forget that Alguersuari was being beaten by Buemi fairly regularly and he only started to step up his game when it looked likely that one of the Torro Rosso boys was going to lose their seats to Ricciardo and at that time it looked like Alguersuari would get the boot. In the end it was too little too late and they both lost their seats as they had several years in F1 and I remember hearing from Franz Tost somewhere that neither where getting the most from the car when they compared Ricciardo's Friday Practice performances.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:41 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.

if Red Bull kicked him out because of Korea 2011 then they are the most unprofessional company...i highly doubt that had an impact on Red Bull's decision to cut him.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:44 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
Adaemus wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.


Well to be fair you rarely sympathise with anyone or anything...but in a grown ups world an agreement means something, Jaime was promised something that didn't materialise, and no-use-ers are sitting pretty with places on the 2013 grid.

You live and you learn, and he won't make the same mistake again...next time, he will get it in writing.

Formula One isn't called the piranha club for nothing. Jaime knew that, all the drivers know it. If he thought that a verbal contract meant anything in a world as selfish and money driven as the F1 one then he is a fool. Simple as that and it may have cost him his F1 career.

As for the dig towards me, I wouldn't if I were you. My understanding is not to make things personal on here...

you make it sound like written contracts are bullet proof,sure they are more secure but it's a written contract isn't it? the only difference is that with a verbal contract,it won't cost RBR a dime to violate it unless he files a civil lawsuit against them which he may or may not win as it's his word against theirs.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:24 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.

if Red Bull kicked him out because of Korea 2011 then they are the most unprofessional company...i highly doubt that had an impact on Red Bull's decision to cut him.

Unless it's stated bold in the contract "move away when you see RBR behind". And it's very likely so.

Nevertheless, neither Alg nor Buemi really shined and RBR went to try some other talents in STR.

Plus I really think Alguersuari should be more thankful, at least for that record braking feature. You know like, "I am thankful that my name is in the record books thank to RBR and I wish them all well". This way he also seems to block his way back with other teams. Bosses don't like drivers that complain.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:05 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
A verbal contract in F1 means sod all. He was naive and now he's paying the price. I don't sympathise at all. There is more to life in Motorsport than F1 anyway for a driver as young as he is.

He should have got the "contract" in writing. Them he would have had a leg to stand on. As it stands he doesn't.

A verbal contract is as legitimate as a written one. The distinction is that it's harder to prove, but if proven then it holds the same weight.

It's also unlikely that a written contract would have made a difference. If the team didn't want him to drive for them then probably the best he could have hoped for is a compensation payout, which still doesn't get him the drive, which is what he ultimately wants.

IMO Alguersuari's error of judgement is not not getting the contract in written form, but in trusting in the validity of any contractual arrangement and showing respect and loyalty to that and a sense of morality about it. If he had other offers he should have ignored the arrangement he had in place and gone after them regardless. My understanding is that he encountered the same problem in 2011 with Red Bull/Toro Rosso in assuming that there was a drive for 2012 and then it being too late when he didn't have his contract renewed to look for another drive.

However, we don't know if this is a product of his naivety or if it was part of the agreement that put him in that position. F1 teams don't just look for any advantage they can gain themselves, but to prevent others from getting an advantage as well. When someone leaves a team there is generally a period where they cannot work for anyone else, teams fight to get designs excluded before they copy them. The joking about Mercedes hiring so many F1 personnel to prevent them for working for other teams may not be as far-fetched as we think. So it's possible that the teams with which he had agreements (Red Bull/Toro Rosso in 2011 and this mystery team in 2012) were overly misleading so as to discourage him from looking elsewhere or implicitly prevented him from seeking opportunities elsewhere precisely so that if they ultimately didn't want him nobody else could have him.

That he isn't pursuing the matter doesn't indicate one way or another its legitimacy or the finer details. It wouldn't get him the drive, it would be an expensive and drawn out process and being known as that litigious in F1 is not a good reputation to have in terms of securing a drive.

Regardless of whether he simply respected what he thought was the case or whether he was put in a position where he had to do that, I don't think it reflects badly on Alguersuari. That F1 is such a pirhana club might be the way that it is, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.

What I think Alguersuari's situation also shows (along with a few others over the years) is just how powerless the drivers are in the context of the sport. It's not something that's so troubling when a journeyman driver doesn't get any opportunities because there are many more of them to come through the sport and therefore it's easy to ignore, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a genuine problem.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:41 am 
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nike2die4 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.

if Red Bull kicked him out because of Korea 2011 then they are the most unprofessional company...i highly doubt that had an impact on Red Bull's decision to cut him.

They wouldn't have officially got rid of him for that reason. Its highly likely it was thought of when they decided not to renew his contract.

It is kinda sad that Marko and whoever else makes the decisions would let a stupid incident in a practice session cloud their judgement.

From what I remember of the incident anyway it was fairly minor, it a practice session and Marko completely over-reacted... He made Alguersuari look like who had done something terribly wrong, all because Marko knows that when Vettel has to think and things aren't going his way he's not as good as they eventually get the fastest aero package on the grid...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:32 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
nike2die4 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
For some balance sake; Alguersuari should really be thankful that his name is in the record books (youngest participant in F1) due to Red Bull's good will. He should, at least for that sake, be more generous toward them. Than, was it not for his unexplainable holding up of Vettel in Korea 2011, he could have better future.

It's all business on the end of the day. You displease chiefs, you get dumped.

if Red Bull kicked him out because of Korea 2011 then they are the most unprofessional company...i highly doubt that had an impact on Red Bull's decision to cut him.

Unless it's stated bold in the contract "move away when you see RBR behind". And it's very likely so.

Nevertheless, neither Alg nor Buemi really shined and RBR went to try some other talents in STR.

Plus I really think Alguersuari should be more thankful, at least for that record braking feature. You know like, "I am thankful that my name is in the record books thank to RBR and I wish them all well". This way he also seems to block his way back with other teams. Bosses don't like drivers that complain.

meh i don't believe that the incident had anything to do with it,that was something blown out of proportion amongst fans and media alike,RBR are well aware what a racing weekend entails and even though Vettel is the prized possession,other guys are there to do their jobs,that weekend was just an unfortunate/insignificant incident that always happens in practice sessions,Vettel didn't lose anything but one lap of fuel and one lap of tire life as a result of it,it would be a very huge knee jerk reaction to react by firing someone you have invested money in over it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:53 am 
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The media only published the video though and documented what happened. I don't think its the fans or media blowing it out of proportion to be honest. It was Helmut Marko completely overreacting which was blowing the whole incident out of proportion.

The whole thing only lead to confirm peoples opinions on the whole Marko, Sebastian and Red Bull situation

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:50 am 
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Honestly, I like what Jaime is doing. The thing is though, what is it accomplishing for him? He's still sponsored by Red Bull, if I'm not mistaken for his music career.

I like his honesty about the situation, but like so many others in the past it goes to show that F1 is like a revolving door these days. You have to have the backing, but at the same time you have to have the needed skill. I honestly think that Jaime Algersauri SHOULD have signed with HRT and for good reason. I know its a longshot, but get some more time and more exposure for himself and I think many would disagree. Still, be on the track and beat your teammate and impress in the rear of the field in some fashion. Jaime could have built up an even larger following with the Spanish for more possible/personal sponsorship for himself.

Unlike Jaime, Seb Buemi just went on along with the flow and is a test driver/3rd driver for RBR and I still think that Jaime was the better driver out of them both. The thing is that, it is unfair how things went. Still, at the same time they did have two years to show what they can do. Also, consider it is Toro Rosso with a smaller payroll at the end of the midfield. I think it takes two years for the drivers to show their full potential (or even more). I would love to see him back in F1, because he has a chip on his shoulder and he wants to prove he is one of the best.

I like his attitude, but I think driving for HRT last season could have helped him. Hell, De La Rosa is a test driver for Ferrari now. Jaime could have had an opprotunity if he impressed and had more sponsorship. Look at Charles Pic, he does not have the most backing, but his skill helped him continue to move forward from Marussia to Caterham.

Give this guy a seat or another shot. If, Buemi can get a test seat. This guy certainly deserves it as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:29 am 
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Marko has been known to blow his horn too loud many a times. I can understand they have a their well thought out plan which features Vettel on top of the stack. I have nothing against Vettel. He is good. He has earned his place and he deserves it. But when the owners trample over the other drivers to pursue one persons agenda, that sure will hurt them someday.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:15 am 
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Laura wrote:
We have no idea if Ricciardo is better or worse than Jaime. None at all.
Not true, Ricciardo was Toro Rosso's test driver, he drove multiple Friday morning practice sessions in which he demonstrated that he had similar but not better speed than the contracted drivers. Compare that to Bottas who was frequently quicker than the racers.
Laura wrote:
The point was that STR wanted to evaluate new drivers and to do that they had to get rid of some. That's just the way of the world and yes it can be unfair but crying to the press about it won't do Jaime any good.
We have absolutely no idea at all whether the reason that Buemi & Algy were replaced was 'to evaluate new drivers', all we have are the public statements of Red Bull and the snide comments of Marko.

How many years did we think that Renault chose drivers for their competitiveness only to find that their careers depended entirely on how much money Briatore was making out of them as their manager? The corruption in F1 is as endemic as the politics, it is just as likely that Mateschitz/Marko got out of bed the wrong side one morning as any strategic decision by the team.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:19 am 
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True, but as long as there's no written contract there's no possibility to throw the book at him.
Besides, we don't know what that "verbal contract " meant. If it was just like "sure, we'll love to have you around for 2013, we'll think about it" now that doesn't sound like rock-solid to me. I'm pretty sure most of the management guys do this with a lot of drivers, to ensure a wide market to choose from.

Plus, slating teams is not the best way to get ahead. Look of what happened to Piquet Jr and his quest against team orders, when everything blew open. Nobody would hire him. Bigger names than that got the boot when going against their own team (remember Prost and Ferrari) so...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:13 am 
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Fat Albert wrote:
Laura wrote:
We have no idea if Ricciardo is better or worse than Jaime. None at all.
Not true, Ricciardo was Toro Rosso's test driver, he drove multiple Friday morning practice sessions in which he demonstrated that he had similar but not better speed than the contracted drivers. Compare that to Bottas who was frequently quicker than the racers.
Laura wrote:
The point was that STR wanted to evaluate new drivers and to do that they had to get rid of some. That's just the way of the world and yes it can be unfair but crying to the press about it won't do Jaime any good.
We have absolutely no idea at all whether the reason that Buemi & Algy were replaced was 'to evaluate new drivers', all we have are the public statements of Red Bull and the snide comments of Marko.

How many years did we think that Renault chose drivers for their competitiveness only to find that their careers depended entirely on how much money Briatore was making out of them as their manager? The corruption in F1 is as endemic as the politics, it is just as likely that Mateschitz/Marko got out of bed the wrong side one morning as any strategic decision by the team.


Speed in practice is not always indicative to fast race pace and shows us nothing about there relative talents at setting up a car and communicating with engineers etc. For us I think it is almost impossible to tell who is better overall but I expect the team themselves can have a pretty clear idea.

We know Algy and Buemi were replaced to evaluate new drivers because that is what STR is there to do. Both of them had time to show what they could do in the car. Red Bull decided that neither warranted moving to the senior team at this time so they were let go to fend for themselves. STR purpose is to take on young Red Bull drivers they are not looking for the best two drivers available.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:21 am 
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I blame his management - teams play drivers off against each other all the time. It's all part of the game.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:34 am 
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Well the problem is of course STR is pretty much a deathpit for your career if Marko doesn't think you are good enough. Vettel is the only one making the move to Red Bull so far but he was not even a Red Bull junior product. Liuzzi got to drive for Force India and HRT but couldn't show the early promise. Speed, Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari couldn't find another race seat once they were axed. Ricciardo and Vergne know that only one of them can replace Webber and the one missing out might likely be seatless and end of F1 career.
Once you have no seat anymore in F1 it's hard to come back. With HRT gone there are even les spots so that also adds to the problem. You can sign as test driver and hope you get a chance that way if one of the race drivers gets injured/banned or fired. But it doesn't lead that often to a race seat for the next season since the time to adapt to the car is short with no in seson testing. That Sutil is the only one with a chance of a comeback is largely thanks to his good relationship with Mallya and not because he is such a great talent (why isn't any other team considering him otherwise?). Williams showed interest in 2012 but they might just have been rumours.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:44 am 
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Amon wrote:
Well the problem is of course STR is pretty much a deathpit for your career if Marko doesn't think you are good enough. Vettel is the only one making the move to Red Bull so far but he was not even a Red Bull junior product. Liuzzi got to drive for Force India and HRT but couldn't show the early promise. Speed, Bourdais, Buemi and Alguersuari couldn't find another race seat once they were axed. Ricciardo and Vergne know that only one of them can replace Webber and the one missing out might likely be seatless and end of F1 career.
Once you have no seat anymore in F1 it's hard to come back. With HRT gone there are even les spots so that also adds to the problem. You can sign as test driver and hope you get a chance that way if one of the race drivers gets injured/banned or fired. But it doesn't lead that often to a race seat for the next season since the time to adapt to the car is short with no in seson testing. That Sutil is the only one with a chance of a comeback is largely thanks to his good relationship with Mallya and not because he is such a great talent (why isn't any other team considering him otherwise?). Williams showed interest in 2012 but they might just have been rumours.

Good post, but one slight quibble with the bold bit - Vettel was part of Red Bull's young driver program.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:57 am 
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Amon wrote:
Well the problem is of course STR is pretty much a deathpit for your career if Marko doesn't think you are good enough. .


How could getting a chance in F1 for a few seasons be a deathpit for your career?
There are other teams than RBR and STR, you know. If you impress people, you'll get a shot in another team, even if you are dropped from STR or RBR.

Look at Vettel. He went to RBR, but Mclaren would have liked to contract him just as much.


On another note, I don't think he's "hitting out" that hard at RBR in the article. The only thing I'm reading in that sense is that the decision to cut him was "inexplicable".


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Seanie wrote:
The media only published the video though and documented what happened. I don't think its the fans or media blowing it out of proportion to be honest. It was Helmut Marko completely overreacting which was blowing the whole incident out of proportion.

The whole thing only lead to confirm peoples opinions on the whole Marko, Sebastian and Red Bull situation

yes but all we just saw was Marko being mad,people decided to conclude that it was that incident that led to Algu getting fired,let's be honest Algu and Buemi were overrated before they entered F1 and frankly to be blunt,they were fairy cakes.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:31 pm 
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mds wrote:
Amon wrote:
Well the problem is of course STR is pretty much a deathpit for your career if Marko doesn't think you are good enough. .


How could getting a chance in F1 for a few seasons be a deathpit for your career?
There are other teams than RBR and STR, you know. If you impress people, you'll get a shot in another team, even if you are dropped from STR or RBR.

Look at Vettel. He went to RBR, but Mclaren would have liked to contract him just as much.


On another note, I don't think he's "hitting out" that hard at RBR in the article. The only thing I'm reading in that sense is that the decision to cut him was "inexplicable".


The thing with RBR driver training programs is that these young drivers are extensively managed by RBR. The only aim of RBR management is to evaluate the drivers for their primary team. They appear far more closed and guarded than other driver programs like Ferrari's. If the drivers dont match their expectations, they are ditched. Too late in the year way too often for these drivers to successfully find race seat elsewhere even when some of them are clearly good enough to be in F1. Not many of these drivers had money like Perez did when he was with Ferrari, and they didnt hinder his move in any way. So these guys at RBR are in really tricky condition. I wonder what will happen to like of Ricciardo and Vergne if they are deemed not good enough to be in RBR. I can almost bet that they will have same fate as previous TR drivers who didnt meet RBR requirement.
Maybe there is a lesson for RBR academy drivers, they need to get their own management in order as soon as they get TR seat and start looking at their future themselves. But we dont know how things are run inside the driver program.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:18 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
The thing with RBR driver training programs is that these young drivers are extensively managed by RBR. The only aim of RBR management is to evaluate the drivers for their primary team.


Ofcourse, but isn't that in itself an incredible advantage? I mean, as long as they perform they needn't worry about sponsorship etc for as long as they're in the programme. Lots of young talents have to worry about sponsorships from day 1 on their single seater careers, all the way up to F1. And that causes talent to go to waste sometimes.

Quote:
If the drivers dont match their expectations, they are ditched. Too late in the year way too often for these drivers to successfully find race seat elsewhere even when some of them are clearly good enough to be in F1.


First of all I'd say if they had performed superbly in their first years, other teams will have noticed and they could have snatched them away before being cut at STR. Second, if they're deemed true talents, after one year away they would be picked up the year after.

Quote:
I wonder what will happen to like of Ricciardo and Vergne if they are deemed not good enough to be in RBR. I can almost bet that they will have same fate as previous TR drivers who didnt meet RBR requirement.


Well, that would mean they're not talented enough for the other teams too, right?


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