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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Being the best successor to Webber was never going to be good enough unless Webber had chosen to retire - to have got the seat, he needed to prove that he was already better than him to be first choice. And though that is admittedly hard to do in a Toro Rosso, I don't think his relatively poor qualifying helped him in the respect.

I've always thought that the Red Bull young driver programme was an answer to a problem that arguably didn't exist - to me there seems little point in running a team to find the next RBR driver when RBR are happy with their own line-up and don't want to change every other year like Toro Rosso do. However, that is how they choose to do it and if the main team still didn't want him after 2 and a half seasons then I'm not sure I can agree that it was an incomprehensible decision to drop him.

As for 2012...whilst I can sympathize to an extent, turning down offers for only a verbal agreement seems a bit naive to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:20 pm 
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mds wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The thing with RBR driver training programs is that these young drivers are extensively managed by RBR. The only aim of RBR management is to evaluate the drivers for their primary team.


Ofcourse, but isn't that in itself an incredible advantage? I mean, as long as they perform they needn't worry about sponsorship etc for as long as they're in the programme. Lots of young talents have to worry about sponsorships from day 1 on their single seater careers, all the way up to F1. And that causes talent to go to waste sometimes.

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If the drivers dont match their expectations, they are ditched. Too late in the year way too often for these drivers to successfully find race seat elsewhere even when some of them are clearly good enough to be in F1.


First of all I'd say if they had performed superbly in their first years, other teams will have noticed and they could have snatched them away before being cut at STR. Second, if they're deemed true talents, after one year away they would be picked up the year after.

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I wonder what will happen to like of Ricciardo and Vergne if they are deemed not good enough to be in RBR. I can almost bet that they will have same fate as previous TR drivers who didnt meet RBR requirement.


Well, that would mean they're not talented enough for the other teams too, right?


Sadly things dont work like that any more. If talent was the only criteria, we would have completely different lineup. So no talent does not always get you ahead in F1. Exceptional talent is different thing, but even genuinely good drivers dont always get their fair shot at F1 with the right team. Timing can be everything in F1. This is not the F1 of late 90s or early 2000s where money was flowing like water through the sport. So driver selection is dependent on lot more things than just talent. We have a compact grid and lot of teams needing to look at their drivers for source of income.
Talented drivers will still get ride if the timing is right and it gives team enough time to secure finances, but not when its crunch time.

Not everyone is Alonso or Vettel or Hamilton. Lot of drivers had to toil in mid and back field before they got chance at the top, many dont even get that chance. So just coming in F1 is not an advantage any more. YOu have to come in with right team, at right time and have good enough car or chaotic race to show your talent. With the way where F1 is headed, it is going to be extremely improbable for anyone from bottom team to show some real talent in those cars. Lack of aero development on bottom teams is too big a limiting factor than it was just few years back. So they wont be challenging for podiums or good solid points finish as often as other small teams managed in past.
SO proper management, is key for young drivers. It can make or break their careers. And timing can be everything. You are out one year and there are 10 drivers with millions in sponsorship just waiting to grab and keep your seat.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:39 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Sadly things dont work like that any more. If talent was the only criteria, we would have completely different lineup. So no talent does not always get you ahead in F1. Exceptional talent is different thing, but even genuinely good drivers dont always get their fair shot at F1 with the right team. Timing can be everything in F1. This is not the F1 of late 90s or early 2000s where money was flowing like water through the sport. So driver selection is dependent on lot more things than just talent. We have a compact grid and lot of teams needing to look at their drivers for source of income.
Talented drivers will still get ride if the timing is right and it gives team enough time to secure finances, but not when its crunch time.


For me that's just the added value of the RBR driving programme.
For all we know Alguersuari (or Buemi, Ricciardo, ...) might not even have been in F1 if he hadn't been in the programme, because he might never have gotten together enough money to pay a seat.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Inappropriate post removed.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Way to burn whatever remaining bridges were there Jaime... He should really get a PR rep to filter his words, although it's a bit too late for that now.

As noted above, whatever verbal deal he had means exactly nothing. I doubt even the most audacious attorneys would attempt to prove that some discussion over lunch and beer was binding.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:23 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Way to burn whatever remaining bridges were there Jaime... He should really get a PR rep to filter his words, although it's a bit too late for that now.

If he had as much money has Hamilton he definitely would have.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:00 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I am glad Jaime said what he thinks as its always more interesting than a load of PR bollocks. What he says through most of it is often true but he has to realize the roll Toro Ross plays in F1 and that is to blood new drivers in the sport. It was Red Bull who gave him his chance in F1 so he should be at least thankful to them for that. I think he has time on his side at only 22 and I believe he deserves another chance so I hope something comes up for him.

I still find it strange how Red Bull did it, how good do they know the drivers are, can they simply see it in the data even though they're driving a different car than Vettel and Webber?

If not then surely the best way to evaluate the drivers would have been to keep either Alguersuari or Buemi to partner Ricciardo rather than to start from scratch again with two new drivers Ricciardo and Vergne

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:20 pm 
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specdecible wrote:
People seem to forget that Alguersuari was being beaten by Buemi fairly regularly and he only started to step up his game when it looked likely that one of the Torro Rosso boys was going to lose their seats to Ricciardo and at that time it looked like Alguersuari would get the boot. In the end it was too little too late and they both lost their seats as they had several years in F1 and I remember hearing from Franz Tost somewhere that neither where getting the most from the car when they compared Ricciardo's Friday Practice performances.

Interesting not heard that before and perhaps answers my question

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:22 am 
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To be honest, if he didn't know what f1 was about until just recently i would say he is very sheltered. Sorry but unless you are a top driver or very experienced in regards to developing a car it is unlikely you will get a paid drive, so you need as many sponsors as you can get. Simple to complain about it after already having 2 1/2 years in the sport strikes me as sour grapes. He has a reasonable amount of talent but for me no more outstanding than others on the grid, so you need backers simple... He must have an extremely elevated opinion of himself if he thinks he will get a driver over someone with cash.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:26 pm 
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It's never a good idea to bad mouth a team or teams in the motorsport you are hoping to return to. In fact, it's never a good idea no matter what industry you're in. It's called "don't burn your bridges" & I remind my young interns about that all the time.


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