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Who's the king of tier two?
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6174
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Author:  Balibari [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Who's the king of tier two?

Putting 'the big three' to one side, who do you think rules tier 2 of the current F1 grid?

Disclaimers:
Maybe you don't think Alo, Ham & Vet are the top three, but for the purposes of this poll that's the way it is.
Maybe other names deserve to be in the poll, I've left off Massa, Rosberg and others for specific reasons.
Maybe you think one or all of these three should be in the top tier. Maybe you're right, but this is the poll.

Author:  funkymonkey [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

This is way too easy to be honest. And it will be one sided vote I am afraid :D

Author:  mds [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Taking the poll as a given, I have to say Raikkonen.
Between Button and Webber, I don't really have a preference. Too hard to call.

Author:  sennafan24 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi for me.

To comeback from a 2 season absent and race as consistently in a new team as he did, shows the talent of the man. Button is not far back to be fair.

I think Massa is equal to Webber personally.

Author:  Laura23 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Raikkonen when push comes to shove if 2012 was anything to go by. He had consistency the other two just didn't. Match that with the speed we all know he has then he'd be in tier one no problem.

Author:  Balibari [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

funkymonkey wrote:
This is way too easy to be honest. And it will be one sided vote I am afraid :D

Yeah, most likely, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I ask as I judge these three as being very close at the moment, even though they have such different strengths and styles. I'm guessing others will have stronger views and I'm interested in the breakdown.

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi was the most impressive last season

Author:  phyz [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Easy.

I think the initial results show that Raikkonen may or may not be at the tier 1 level but he certainly is a cut above Button and Webber.

Author:  Dash33 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi, followed by Button IMO.

What if those two were defined as tier 2 (they are world champions after all).

Who would be the best of the rest? Tier 3?

Author:  going_the_distance [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi isn't Tier 2. He's a WDC, and up there with the top 3 IMO.

Author:  Senna88 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi hands down because of his consistency, rarely went missing in a race last season unlike both Button and Webber. Kimi could be tier 1 but his one lap pace is nowhere near as good as it used to be and Hamilton/Vettel are better qualifiers IMO.

But if he improves on that then certainly he could be considered part of 'tier 1'.

Author:  Balibari [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Only 30 votes in but it seems even more clearcut than I expected.

I wonder if it's possible to draw up a list 90% of us would agree on. Not an exact order of drivers, but 3 or 4 tiers.

I'm so F1 starved it's come to this!!

Author:  mac_d [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi for my money, then Button.

Webber is a bit of a distance behind.

Author:  Fiki [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

I consider only Webber to be second tier, and even then only just. Räikkönen and Button are both top tier.

Edit: Re-reading the poll question, I find I can vote after all, since it's just about a ranking of three fine drivers. So Räikkönen it is.

Author:  davedpg [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Is it fair to say that if a driver wins a WDC, that makes him a top tier driver?

Author:  Covalent [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

davedpg wrote:
Is it fair to say that if a driver wins a WDC, that makes him a top tier driver?

At that time, yes. 5 years later, not necessarily.

Author:  Volantary [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Based on 2012 you can't look past Kimi. Both Button and Webber went missing at various points last season, Kimi didn't.

Author:  callMEcrazy [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

davedpg wrote:
Is it fair to say that if a driver wins a WDC, that makes him a top tier driver?


Its not always necessary to use stats, which a WDC is. Just because Button won it in '09 doesn't change the fact that his 2012 season was not remotely worthy of a champion. Stats also say he finished just 2 points behind Hamilton.

Its the obvious. Kimi wins it. But I'm not quite sure why Rosberg and Hulkenberg weren't included in the pole because many would rank them higher than Button and Webber last season. If you ask me, Massa did no worse than Button or Webber.

Author:  Race2win [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

If this poll is just based on the performance of 2012 then yes I would agree that Kimi was the most impressive. However on certain days Button and Webber too impressed which is as usual expected. We also need to consider the fact that Button had a very crap car/setup for the 1st half and Webber too had an unreliable car, well a few times. But i beleive he was asked hold back many times. Then again the Webber we saw in 2010 was not the same this last year. Maybe hes discouraged or whatever the reason that spark Was missing. But if you ask me overall id rate them equall

Author:  Eva09 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

callMEcrazy wrote:
davedpg wrote:
Is it fair to say that if a driver wins a WDC, that makes him a top tier driver?


Its not always necessary to use stats, which a WDC is. Just because Button won it in '09 doesn't change the fact that his 2012 season was not remotely worthy of a champion. Stats also say he finished just 2 points behind Hamilton.

Its the obvious. Kimi wins it. But I'm not quite sure why Rosberg and Hulkenberg weren't included in the pole because many would rank them higher than Button and Webber last season. If you ask me, Massa did no worse than Button or Webber.


I think Rosberg is seen as slightly unproven, a tad harsh as he won and beat Michael Schumacher but noone knows exactly how much Schumacher had lost by 2010. He also didn't repeat his dominance of 2010 over Michael in 2011 and 2012.

Hulkenberg is definitely unproven. Button, Kimi and Webber have been at it for years.

Author:  POBRatings [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Good to see the support for Raikkonen. He belongs at the top.
However the voting does not reflect the difference between Button and Webber. Imo they are very much closer-matched.
Good topic, to discuss those below the top tier.

Author:  Eva09 [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

POBRatings wrote:
Good to see the support for Raikkonen. He belongs at the top.
However the voting does not reflect the difference between Button and Webber. Imo they are very much closer-matched.
Good topic, to discuss those below the top tier.


Yes I voted Raikkonen, as pretty much anyone with sense must.

Button and Webber I would put equal, I think Webber is underrated.

Author:  Amon [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

So Lewis a one time champ is tier 1 and Kimi and Button are tier 2? That doesn't make sense to me to be honest.
Lewis is better than Jense I think but is he really better than Kimi I am not so sure about that.

I think all WDC's should be tier 1.
In tier 2 I would put the guys winning races but probably not good enough to win WDC: Webber, Massa and Rosberg. I expect Perez and Hulkenberg to take Webber and Massa's spot in there at some point and possibly move up to tier 1.

I really don't see much point in this poll.

Author:  Deep_blue [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

I wouldn´t put Webber on that poll, I like the guy, but it´s mostly the car, I really rate him no higher than middle of the table maybe 10th or 12th on the current grid, IMO Perez, Hulk, Maldo, Rosberg, Massa and maybe Ricciardo are faster drivers

Author:  Hakkattack [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Why on earth would you put Webber with 2 Champs?!

Author:  POBRatings [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Balibari wrote:
Only 30 votes in but it seems even more clearcut than I expected.

I wonder if it's possible to draw up a list 90% of us would agree on. Not an exact order of drivers, but 3 or 4 tiers.

I'm so F1 starved it's come to this!!


Good for you Balibari! It is not easy waiting for the next season. I like your enthusiasm, also your tiers for drivers, instead of ranked lists of individual drivers by number.

Tier one: Alonso
Tier two : Raikkonen, Hamilton and Vettel
Tier three: Rosberg, Button, Massa,Webber, Grosjean

This is based on 2012; imo ratings/rankings sometimes/can/do change season-to-season.

Author:  AngusWolfe [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Considering Raikkonen finished ahead of the other two and one of your "top 3", 2012 spec Kimi all the way.

Author:  Covalent [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

POBRatings wrote:
Balibari wrote:
Only 30 votes in but it seems even more clearcut than I expected.

I wonder if it's possible to draw up a list 90% of us would agree on. Not an exact order of drivers, but 3 or 4 tiers.

I'm so F1 starved it's come to this!!


Good for you Balibari! It is not easy waiting for the next season. I like your enthusiasm, also your tiers for drivers, instead of ranked lists of individual drivers by number.

Tier one: Alonso
Tier two : Raikkonen, Hamilton and Vettel
Tier three: Rosberg, Button, Massa,Webber, Grosjean

This is based on 2012; imo ratings/rankings sometimes/can/do change season-to-season.

I think one interesting topic would be to have the members rank the drivers in tiers of their own choosing; there could be as many tiers as they want with as many drivers in each tier as they like.

Author:  moby [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Hmm, I wonder how close to the poll results it would be if you asked 'who is your favorite driver' from that list?

Author:  specdecible [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

I bet if you were to make a poll that said:
Whose name sounds most like Buttton?
- Bianchi
- Button
- Raikkonen

Raikkonen would still lead the poll

Author:  bourbon19 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Balibari wrote:
Only 30 votes in but it seems even more clearcut than I expected.


And what does that suggest to you?

Author:  BlueSharky [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

specdecible wrote:
I bet if you were to make a poll that said:
Whose name sounds most like Buttton?
- Bianchi
- Button
- Raikkonen

Raikkonen would still lead the poll


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This forum should be renamed to planetkimi.com

Author:  The_Fish [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Webber goes missing far too much to be considered equal to the 2 world champions listed.

Webber is in the same league as Rosberg, Massa etc these days. Been around a while, can be superb on their day and anonymous for far too much time.

Author:  LKS1 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

moby wrote:
Hmm, I wonder how close to the poll results it would be if you asked 'who is your favorite driver' from that list?

Obviously I can't speak for everyone who voted, but I far prefer both Button and Webber to Kimi. Even so, I voted Kimi as I believe he was the better driver in 2012.

Author:  M.Nader -DODZ- [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Funny how 2 of the three options are WDCs, and current "team leaders"

Author:  DrG [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi, of course. Easiest poll I have ever participated in :D

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

100 votes seems enough to get an idea. Very surprised to see so few votes for Webber, and also to see so many say Kimi has re-established himself as a top driver (rather than just being the best of these three). I don't disagree with either observation, I just expected a slightly wider spread.

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Amon wrote:
So Lewis a one time champ is tier 1 and Kimi and Button are tier 2? That doesn't make sense to me to be honest.
Lewis is better than Jense I think but is he really better than Kimi I am not so sure about that.

I think all WDC's should be tier 1.
In tier 2 I would put the guys winning races but probably not good enough to win WDC: Webber, Massa and Rosberg. I expect Perez and Hulkenberg to take Webber and Massa's spot in there at some point and possibly move up to tier 1.

I really don't see much point in this poll.

The point was for me to gauge the relative perceptions of these three drivers. Put simply, to confirm a suspected order and to see how much better fans perceive Kimi to be than Button, and Button to be than Webber.

If you choose to use results alone to judge the ability of drivers that's up to you. I'm simply interested in other peoples views and wanted to gauge them.

Author:  Balibari [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Hakkattack wrote:
Why on earth would you put Webber with 2 Champs?!

Why not? If Schumi were still on the grid, would it be ridiculous to suggest he was still good enough to be in the same bracket as these three, or ridiculius to suggest any of these three were in the same bracket as a seven time champion?

Author:  infi24r [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who's the king of tier two?

Kimi is tier 1

Webber is best of tier 2.

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