planetf1.com

Well i don't recall her being a third driver.

Does Danica think she's good enough?

The money she could make if she was would be atronomical.

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Possibly but then there is a reason why F1 wants to break into the American market. It's already very lucrative.

Some of the Indy and NASCAR guys I believe earn more than some of the F1 guys.

http://www.therichest.org/celebnetworth ... net-worth/

http://www.therichest.org/sports/highes ... vers-2011/

$29 mill thats more for a year than Hammy in 2011 isn't it?

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

If she was at least decent for F1 quality standards, one team would have jumped to offer her a seat. Only for publicity, PR, image, hype, if not for anything else, and it would have made a very good choice; that car would have gotten a LOT of broadcasting time.
So, since nobody's rushing to her aid, I can only conclude she's not F1 material yet. Misogynist or not, whatever, take your pick, it's just a conclusion that draws itself for me. Maybe she knows it herself and does not want to open this bucket of worms.

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Olivier Panis fan.
...and also Jenson Button fan.

Of course, the NASCAR argument is flawed... it is being seen from an F1 point of view. The point is, that NASCAR has no more business claiming that it has the best drivers in the world than F1 does making the same claim...period. This bullshit of thinking that the best drivers in the world drive, or want to drive, in F1 is a self-perpetuating piece of bullshit that has run through this forum for the 10+ years that I have been a part of it. It is usually accompanied by an American can't cut it in F1 claim, but so far you have refrained from that, just beat around the edges on it.

BTW, being in the running for a win is not the same as a win... just more rationalizing. Yes, Taku was in the running...and screwed it up. Rubens is a much better than average F1 driver and a better than average IRL driver. I wish them both well, but they have to pay their dues just as F1 newbies normally do.

And now YOU are F1??? "WE don't need her." I too am an F1 fan, and you are no more F1 than I am.. or are you Bernie Ecclestone in disquise? You did not bother to "listen" to what I said about a Danica Patrick being good for F1... win or not, but that is not a surprise. Trust me, F1 can always use more money, and Patrick would bring more... that was the point I was trying to make... however, I am sorry if you are concerned about having to see her image on F1 sites... which of course, would only prove my point.

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I don't think she has a desire to run F1 and that is fine, it is her choice. I have no doubt that she understands that there would be far too much to do to catch up with the F1 "pack"... starting fresh in the F1 "ladder" at the age of 30. Besides, she has a fresh and exciting career open to her in NASCAR, where she can be in a competitive car, have time jet setting all over the world, and still make big bucks and get big acclaim... it would make no sense to now decide to go the F1 route.

Don't get me wrong in my responses in this thread... I too do not think Danica Patrick would not do well in F1... but not because she is a woman, not because she is American, not because she has driven IRL... but because she is not an elite driver in either of those disciplines either. She is a very good driver, she is very marketable both within her sport and on a National level in the USA... and is there a better known woman driver in the world today than Danica Patrick? I don't see many other women being debated in an F1 forum like she is.

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Well doesn't that answer the question why there are no American drivers in F1 then rather than it being some kind of conspiracy?

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pokerman,

I am a bit confused, where is the conspiracy claim? (earlier post?) it just appears to me that Johnston is pointing out that some Drivers can make as much or more in the two US based racing disciplines than perhaps they would in F1.

I agree with you on the subject of the amount of money Danica could make in F1. I too think it could be astronomical. She already ranks behind only Sharapova and the two Williams sisters in money earned in 2011 by a woman athlete (12 million ) likely made even more last year with her time in the Nationwide series, and is likely to make MUCH more this year as Cup series driver with even more exposure. It would be sure to anger some of F1's better drivers if she came their way... and made more money as a rookie.

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She has won ONE race in her entire car racing career. That alone is a good enough sign for me that she doesn't have what it takes for F1.


She DID follow the F1 ladder though. Karting, Formula Vauxhaul, Formula Ford. Everybody did Formula Ford then. But then instead of BF3 or the like, she came home to run Atlantics.

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Who mentioned conspiracies?


It's well known the F1 is seen as very much as a European based championship. How many F1 drivers haven't come up through Euro ranks? Including the likes of Perez and Maldo even Webber. I'm pretty sure all the drivers on the grid have come up through the ranks racing in Europe.

To youngsters in America F1 isn't the big deal it is in other parts of the world. When they are growing up they don't harbour the dreams to go into F1, it's Indy and NASCAR. For them F1 isn't the creme de la creme NASCAR and Indy are. If your goals are to race in those two championships because they are seen as the best why would you up root to do a F1 feeder series in Europe? Basically your not. . Your going to stay at home and work your way up the established ladder to get into Indy or NASCAR. Thats their goals. Moving to Europe would be like someone who wants to be in the NFL going to New Zealand to play high school Rugby. Once they get to where they want to go, why would they swap? Why move from being well paid, successful staying mostly in America to another series travelling the globe as a relative unknown and likely being asked to pay for a seat? Once they get to the top of their chosen F1 is effectively a step down. Having to start again at the beginning.

I think I said before. Perspective too. Your sitting looking at F1 being at the top and every driver should aspire to it, they are looking at Indy or NASCAR being the top and everyone should aspire to be in them. F1 in America is a minority sport and they simply don't have the same views on it.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

The kids who get started in karting here aspire to F1 just like kids in the rest of the world. And plenty of them move abroad to pursue it. The only difference is we ALSO have kids who start arena racing, midgets, dirt track stuff...and they often aspire to NASCAR instead. Its not one or the other here, we have both, in addition to the millions of auto-x kids who want to be professional GT racers. Its really not any different than some kids dreaming about the NFL and some dreaming about the NBA.

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No i was referring to the OP not Johnstone himself.

Is it not true for the last few years now that she makes more money then her male counterparts because of her gender, results themself are a bit of a secondary importance.

If you look at the kind of money she earns in America there's no way then she would consider F1, also as we've already seen NASCAR lends itself for her to achieve some stand out performances like the Daytona pole having been placed in one of the best cars.

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I guess you could say thats true of a lot of sports in America, they have everything they need in their own backyard to become very wealthy and have no need to wander elsewheres into other sports or disciplines?

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I cant believe on a board rife with posters who think F1 drivers should move to lesser cars to prove they can win in them, that so many people are hung up on the earning potential in different sports. Is it not possible that Americans might want to wander elsewhere for the actual sport and not the paycheck? The best in any sport got to the top for love of the game, not just because they love the money.

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F1 being the top is only if you think F1 is the top. Personally I reckon Grp B was THE definitive top

I can only speak from what I read and here from this side of the pond but I have never gotten the impression that F1 is seen as the top from your side.

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

So what? You think that F1 is the epitome, perhaps other drivers do not. That is their right, and I for one respect that.

It is not a question of being 'Hung up on the earning potential", that was merely mentioned as yet another reason why some drivers may not want to go F1. If they can make a comfortable living doing what they want where they want, why should they have to go F1 to prove themselves to a bunch of super avid F1 fans who think they can only be the best if they are in F1. That is the kind of bullshit we often see here.

I firmly believe that there are drivers in NASCAR who could EXCEL in F1 had that been what they wanted and had they worked in that direction. I feel the same way about some of the WRC drivers, and fully suspect that there are top drivers in other series who could have done well in F1 had that been what they wanted and if they had the resources to follow the F1 path.

F1 is not the end all for everybody. It takes a lot of money (or great sponsorship) to climb the F1 path, a driver has to be wanting and willing to travel extensively to climb the F1 ladder time away from family and friends, and once they get there, there are but a hand full of cars capable of winning, and other than the rare case of Lewis Hamilton, a driver just does not step into a top seat from the start. And then once they are in F1, the political game begins. For some that is not the epitome of racing, it is just another racing series of note.

Now, let us look at a top driver who, perhaps American, who can stay in the states, be with families for parts of every week, race in perhaps twice as many races as F1 in a season, be in one of many competitive cars with a chance to win, become a big name in their home country and make at least as much money as they would in F1. This driver may fully enjoy racing the type of cars that he is in. Perhaps the driver LIKES racing on ovals such as Indianapolis and going over 230mph for a lap! Perhaps they like a field of 43 cars tightly bunched in three rows bumper to bumper blasting into turn one only inches apart at over 200mph at Talledega. Perhaps they like the fact that the racing at the END of the race is more important than the F1 race to Turn one on Lap one that often defines the whole outcome of the race.

It doesn't have to be all about the money, it is just possible that some great drivers like what they are doing and where they are doing it.... and that some F1 fans have to understand the the rest of the world does not have to think like them.

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Without descending into another USA versus the World mudslinger, I actually thought Lauda's comments had far more potential to cause controversy than anything Marko said. And I think both were pretty spot on.

As for DP, whether she has or had what it takes to make it in F1 or not, I find it mighty impressive she beat Gordon to pole.

Edited because I'm an awful speller.

Blake - you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of my post, again. What I said about money and sport has nothing to do with which category is the top or best or any of that, nor is it about who would do well in what.

I said that given how many people around here post about how they think some drivers should move to lesser cars/teams to prove they can win without the best car, it surprises me how many posts in this thread are about drivers aiming for NASCAR because they can earn more money, and that surely the people who are at the top of their game got there because of their love of the game and not their love of the paycheck, so perhaps some would want to pursue other categories for the SPORT and not for the CASH.

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This!

Having been a fan of American Motorsports and more specifically a die hard fan of Indy and then CART with my passion dwindling down as the series war drove them to switch to ChampCar and then ultimately to IRL, I can say with all certainty that it is by no means any easier to win in Indy than it is in F1. In either series those individuals who win with frequency have a tendency to win in any similar series. Of course F1 is a considerably more difficult series to win in because each car is entirely different where as in the days of CART there were but 3 Chassis and then 4 and a multitude of engines for all the teams to choose from.

Having said that, there have been hundreds of highly touted drivers try their hand in all the top American Open-Wheel Series and most have never won a single race, while most barely finished higher than middle of the pack throughout their entire careers. Danica might not be what people would consider elite, but the girl is quite talented and she's all business in the car and commands her team the way one of her mentors and former team owner, Michael Andretti used to. At worst I think she could be a solid #2 in F1 and at best she might surprise a few million folks. On top of that she is intelligent enough to take every advantage afforded to her because of her good looks. Not a bombshell by any means but without question extremely attractive and quite pleasing to the eye which goes a very long way to not only help her own career but media coverage of that magnitude also helps strengthen whatever series she participates in. She brings in truckloads of cash in the way of sponsors and extensive media coverage all of which garners and grows attention.

If she were to break into F1 the fan base would grow considerably overnight and F1 would be even stronger. Someone with that kind of appeal could be what rekindles and restores America's passion for F1. I just don't see any negatives here and for all of these reasons I disagree with any notion that she wouldn't be good or good enough for F1.


BTW, if you've ever watched Days of Thunder, one thing Robert Duvall said that is true is that the cars weigh twice as much and the tires are half as wide (not literally) and although they only go left, NASCAR cars are more difficult to drive. A Pole Position in of all places, DAYTONA is something of an accomplishment FOR ANYONE.

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Second place is the first loser!

One race win is more than most drivers ever attain. Sadly for her at the time she went to ARS it was only a shadow of what it once was. Not terrible by any means but in its day it was very much one of the top feeder series for CART and a solid road to F1 for those that wanted to pursue it.

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Second place is the first loser!

I want hot chics in formula 1

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KIMI: Yeah,Winning feels good.But I am not the type of guy to jump up and down and rub it in everyone's face.

For once Marko has a point. But Danica has never struck me as the type who sees F1 as the be all and end all anyway.


I don't think he's misunderstanding your post and I don't see how the two are related. Let's not pretend that it's a majority of posters who think drivers should move to lesser cars - it really isn't. But even if it was, how is that related to drivers wanting to be in NASCAR? Moving to a lesser car within one series (which doesn't automatically mean lesser pay, incidentally) is hardly the same thing as uprooting yourself to Europe to pursue a completely different motorsport discipline. To me that's comparing apples and oranges and serves no real purpose.

I also don't think anyone else has suggested that wanting to be paid for what they do means they don't love the sport and just want the cash either. It's pretty hard to make a living out of scratching around for sponsorship and racing on your parents' coin. If you want to be doing what you love full time as a career, chances are you need to be paid to do it. If you've got a much higher chance of doing that in one category than another, of course it's relevant. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I never said F1 drivers were the best drivers in the world, best single seater drivers though yes because there are no other series that drivers have to work as hard to get into but that dosn't mean they are more or less skilled than the best NASCAR/Rally/Touring Car/Whatever drivers. American drivers can compete in F1, they have had two world champions but the way the sytem works (ie being Europe based) works to their disadvantage and the lack of interest in single seaters in America compared to elsewhere means they struggle for sponsorship. I must have been half asleep when saying Taku was in the running for two wins last year because he was actually in the running for five. True in Fontana he crashed but in Indy he was squeezed off he track, in Edmonton he ended up second because of the ludicrous push to pass system, in Baltimore he was leading when his gearbox turned into a box of neutrals and in St Petersberg he had another mechanical failure after leading. He is 36 and until 2010 had only driven half the Indy banking and never sat in and Indycar, Rubens is 40+ and had only ever driven half the Indy banking and never sat in and Indycar yet they are both competiting regularly with drivers in their mid 20's who have driven in the series for years. Danica would bring sponsorship yes and you can never enough money in F1 (I should know I'm Bernie Ecclestone) but F1 has managed fine without her and she brought her sponsorship to Indycar and look how far down the pan that is. F1 is not dodging the taxman and I fail to see what see what her driving round at the back would achieve for the sport. It wouldn't bring in anymore fans and it wouldn't bring enough sponsorship to make a big difference to the sport.

I don't think anyone has said they should move to NASCAR for more money. I brought up the figures because top flight drivers in Indy and NASCAR can be earning as much as F1, maybe more. To counter act the notion they would be better off in F1. And if they see Indy and NASCAR as top flight why would they move to the cauldron of F1 something that many of them have been critical off in the past?

They maybe have a love of the game that doesn't mean they want to subject themselves to the BS that goes on in F1 just to go and try other things or prove themselves. .

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Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."

Danica Patrick - not good enough for F1?

Well, if Dr. Vettel-Fan meant not as good as Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and co. he is absolutely right - she is not even close.

However, if you consider the likes of Karthikeyan, Chilton, van der Garde etc. good enough for F1, then she definitely is, too.

Is there the backing in hand to help them do that though?

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Two drivers have come over from the states straight into top teams, Villenueve and Montoya, Hamilton is not such a rare case

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I think the bottom line is she can be more competitive in NASCAR than F1, i think everyone can see the earning potential for her in F1 but if she totally sucked then it would be quite disastrous for her, i don't think she would take that risk.

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[danica]No, no. I don't want to go to F1. Did you hear me, F1? I don't want you! F1? Hello? Is anyone there? Hello?[/danica]


It's already been said, but the bottom line is that Danica has just not been very good on road courses, even with top equipment.



Exactly.

Look, the only reason I even care if an American makes it to F1 is to give the sport more relevance here. It does me no good to see another Scott Speed sitting at the back of the highest level of motorsport but remaining anonymous in American sports.

IMHO, in order for an American to stick in F1 and make a difference in terms of attracting new American fans to the sport, they're going to have to make a splash, not just make it into the show and then languish as a backmarker, biding their time until they get canned. IMHO, they also need to already have their own American fan following. If they have to try to build one out of their rise through the European feeder series into F1, then it doesn't do that much good. For an American to make that big splash in F1, it would have to come in the form of some very unlikely (imho) scenarios:

1) Big American NASCAR, IndyCar, or even MotoGP name decides to risk their career by taking their skills, sponsors, and fan base to F1. There they are able to get a decent to good ride and have consistent success.

2) Amazing, young, relatively unknown racing talent goes to F1 backmarker or mid-pack team and has huge success, catching the eye of American fans and sponsors.

Another route is for an American to enter a backmarker or mid-pack team, have some success and keep trading up until they find a top ride. Maybe then they catch the eye of the American fan. Also pretty unlikely, imho.

None of these are very likely, imho.

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Neither of those things are what I was talking about.

Many, many posters around here have suggested a driver should want to prove himself in lesser teams because that makes you better than winning in the best car. To me, that's a SPORTING decision, not a "career" decision - not to make more money, be more famous, or look immediately better.

Then there are a bunch of posts in this thread asking "why would Americans want to follow the F1 path when there is more money to be made at home in Nascar?". My point is, money doesn't have to play a role in that decision. Maybe they want to follow the F1 ladder for SPORT, or they want to aim for Nascar because of the SPORT, not for the betterment of their "career" or wallet. I'm sure the reasons are different for everyone.

I pointed out the two because its a strange juxtaposition. In one case, lots of people think drivers should make sport-type decisions, and in the other, lots think following the money is the smart choice. To me, either criteria for the decision is fine - I don't really care one way or the other, but I find it interesting that it seems "okay" for drivers in one sport to follow the smart career path and not in the other.

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If you know enough about NASCRAP as I prefer to refer to it in it's current over evolved state, you'd know that it has evolved into a spec series where all the chassis are identical and the bodies, outside of the front end and rear end caps are identical so the same aero for all. the drivetrain is where perhaps there are differences but again it's been changed so much to be turned into as Spec a series as possible that the engines are also damn near identical. What does that mean?

It means that to win in the NASCAR series is both more difficult whilst at the same time standing a better chance to do so over F1. That's not to disparage a driver's ability, but being that the packages they all run are nearly identical, the performance curve is such that every team has a solid and realistic chance of getting their setup just right to have the edge over the rest of the front runners who will undoubtedly come very close. In F1 however, each team manufactures their own car that is completely unique in every way to all the other cars with the exception of wheel bas and displacement and some electronics. So, a driver that is perhaps just as good as the front runners will never prove how good they are if they find themselves on a team who's car misses the mark. Note I didn't say crappy or lesser funded teams. Even the mighty McLaren as well as Ferrari, Honda, Toyota, Jordan, Williams and countless others have suffered through seasons with cars that simply missed the mark and then there were times where most of those teams got it right and looked insanely better than the rest of the field.

For all these reasons, no one can say a Danica Patrick isn't good enough for F1 because the fact is, there have been far worse drivers who were previously all the rave, make it into F1 only to never accomplished a thing in their entire careers and many of those even landed on good/decent teams. Until she straps into an F1 car no one can ever say one way or the other how she will fair. Not Marko, not Horner, not Ecclestone, not Dennis, not di Montezemolo, not Flavio, not Brundle, not Hobbo, nor anyone else has a crystal ball to know their opinion to be fact.

I wouldn't mind seeing her rush a knucklehead to let them know WTF! She is one feisty little thing when she's in race mode. LOL

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Well said.

To advocate on behalf of the athletes, they are employees who are merely viewed as nothing more than commodities, and expendable ones at that. So long as you're winning and you bring in bucket loads of cash for the team, you are their poster child. Miss the mark a few times too many and they'll cut, or deal you out so swiftly you wouldn't know until your representation called to inform you. Massa is a prime example, the guy took a bit to find his F1 legs but when he did he looked sensational and was in the hunt for the title 3 consecutive years. On top of that he is the consummate team player who's #1 goal apart from winning for himself (let's not kid ourselves because that is why EVERY competitive person competes) is to do the best he can for the team. And yet, he is continuously hindered by the team and has been publicly put on the chopping block, and that's OK. However, were he to say anything that could be construed by the team as negative they'd give him the axe with immediate effect. yeah, that sounds fair to me.

I say to all athletes, go for the glory but if a fat wad of cash finds its way to your doorstep, TAKE IT AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!!

Kovi is out of a seat because the team ditched him for a driver who brought cash, Bruno had substantial sponsorship and even that was not enough and the team went in a different direction that brought in more money and prior to that Hulk was axed in favor of £29M that came with a hot headed driver. We can debate what we think or feel might be best but no one in here has the right to say what a driver should or shouldn't do because none of us are in their shoes and only they know their circumstances, and whatever career path they choose is up to them.

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Second place is the first loser!

I love the irony of Marko's role as "driver development". If your name is not Sebastian Vettel all he does is dish out disparaging remarks.

I suppose He could also have said Sebastian Loeb is not good for f1.

cheers

pear-shaped pete

Methinks Marko has nice things to say about Carlos Sainz Jr, AFdC, Daniil Kvyat.

(And Andy Damerum is the Driver Development Manager at RBR. Marko is an advisor to the team, and plays a role with the Red Bull jr team, which none of the RBR or STR drivers are a part of)

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I do understand your post ashley, I just see it as two situations which aren't really the same thing rather than a strange juxtaposition. And in my years on this board I have also seen little to suggest that most posters are really of the opinion that drivers should move to lesser cars to prove themselves. That ones in lesser cars have proved more maybe, but not that drivers should be stupid enough to give up a top car to satisfy some keyboard warriors. But there you go, that is my opinion and this is not on topic.

I don't agree with everything Danica does, but it's her life so I don't see why I should have a problem with it. I think she definitely took the smart route in figuring out that F1 probably wouldn't go that well for her, but also that she didn't need F1 to have a good career. NASCAR certainly isn't working out too badly for her.

Inappropriate post removed.

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I think you'll find it's always the same vocal minority who shout loudest about wanting Vettel to "prove himself in a lesser car". Most know he already did that in 2007/08. So don't try and manuiate your argument around that because it won't work Ashley. It has nothing to do with Patrick either in this context, not really.

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I wasn't making an argument. I made an observation, then I asked a question.

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Whatever you say Ashley.

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1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

Just did a cursory read of Patrick's racing career. I was really surprised she had moved to England for a few years to race in some single seater series. That seems a very odd thing for someone to do that didn't have aspirations towards Formula 1. She had a second place finish and didn't win a single race. Perhaps after those few years with less than stellar results she decided to test a different type of racing to try and find success and most importantly a career.

Whatever her desires the common credentials used to earn a Formula 1 drive are simply not on her resume. So going away from the common credentials we go to her American racing career. She raced in the IRL from 2005 through 2009, started 82 races, winning only once. A win is impressive from a fans perspective but hardly solid credentials to merit a drive over seasoned winners in the proven feeder series to Formula 1.

Her being a woman and perhaps attracting attention and money is no different than using a pay driver in my opinion. But, being too lazy to look up anything else, , I'd bet even the current pay drivers/lower tier drivers or even potential pay drivers have stronger resumes and guaranteed money (rather than the, albeit very realistic, hope that Danica is able to bring in more money).

Lastly, how did this thread get on Sebastian Vettel? LMAO

The talent pool in IndyCar is not good enough for F1, and won't ever be since the championship is in shambles and isn't likely to recover any time soon. GP2 is a much better prospect from young guns than F1 and actually has a higher profile than IndyCar ATM.

Danica Patrick is a marketing exercise, nothing else.

Also, on Bourdais... He won Champ Cars four times, but Champ Cars was a crap championship when he did that. He was just the one-eyed man in the land of the blind. There was no guarantee he would do anything good in F1, and when confronted against someone special like Vettel, he was thoroughly beaten and sent packing to the US again, replaced mid-season by a 19-year-old guy who, believe it or not, did much better than him. Bourdais grossly underperformed in F1 and completely deserved the boot.

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"Yeah but I'm in front mate"