planetf1.com

It is currently Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:11 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1892
Location: Perth, Australia
Just finished reading the Jim Clark autobiography last night (great book, by the way) and throughout the final third of the book he heaped praise upon the Indy 500. He really went as far as to suggest the 500 was better than most European Grand Prix races. As some of you may know he won the race in 1965, at the expense of attending the Monaco Grand Prix and if a driver were to attend the '500 in 2013 they would also be forced to skip the Monaco Grand Prix.

Unfortunately it seems almost every year (or for the past few at least) the two clash.

But why hasn't a Formula One driver gone to Indianapolis during the European season in so long? The obvious answer is that no team is willing to risk a title to compete in a one-off race in America, but you'd have thought a driver like Schumacher could have gone over there to try it out after having won seven titles. It'd be beneficial to both parties (Americans may take an interest in European racing if driver X did well and Europeans may take interest in American racing if driver X provided an exciting show) and would really improve a driver's standing as an all-time great.

It's known that Ayrton Senna was interested in a Penske drive in the early 1990s (thought it may have been a ruse to get Ron Dennis to cough up the dough) and many Formula One drivers travel to the North American continent once their spell in Europe is over - so the intrigue is obviously there.

Any comments or historical facts to start off?

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1192
Probably nobody wants to risk it.

As much as it is said that they just go around in circles, it is unfamiliar territory for F1 or European racers used to FIA championships. Constant speed, banks, lines they need to take cant be mastered by just attending one off race. Not to mention chance of huge pileup that can put their European season and/or life in jeopardy.
Different set of skills are required at Indy. I am sure many of F1 drivers can adjust to that, but not by directly jumping in for one off race. Some can, most wont.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1892
Location: Perth, Australia
funkymonkey wrote:

I am sure many of F1 drivers can adjust to that, but not by directly jumping in for one off race. Some can, most wont.


It's not as if they'd be going to Indianapolis for the first time on the day of the race. There's days of testing to be had. Formula One drivers, supposedly the best in the world, should be able to adapt to the needs of American racing. Hell, Sato almost won the race last year.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:28 pm
Posts: 245
Correct me if I'm wrong but i don't think anybody with an FIA licence can race in a series governed by a different body. Obviously this would stop anybody doing the 500 but also, Monaco is probably one of the best chances for any team to get a surprise result so i presume no team or driver wants to miss any golden opportunities either

_________________
Wise words from Martin Brundle:
“Rob Smedley should have been a driver; he's wasted as an engineer.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:00 pm
Posts: 172
Location: DFW, Texas
I think the structure of the Indy 500 makes it difficult as well. You basically need it to not conflict with 2 weekends. A number of years, the weekend prior to Monaco has also had an F1 race, which would be qualifying and bump day at Indy.

I also think given how much aero has played into the development of cars on both series since the days of Jim Clark, it would be very difficult for a driver from either series to drop into a car from the other series and be able to adapt to the different style enough that he could be competitive in a 1-off type situation. (Especially involving an oval circuit as I'm sure the Indy Cars are trimmed dramatically different for street and road course events.)

I don't think in Jim Clark's day the demands of the different driving styles for the 2 circuits was nearly as far apart as they've been for the last 20-30 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 1625
The formulas use to be a lot closer to each other, and Indy was an official part of the championship at one time so there was more interest in it then.

Also take in to account how much more specialized drivers are now than they were through the '70's. Aside from the odd rally here and there you don't see F1 drivers driving in other series, and the same goes for other top series other than sports cars.

Long gone are the days of Andretti and his like driving in F1, Indy, Can-Am etc all within a year or two.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 1665
There where only around 11 races a season back then (Jim Clark era) and sometimes months separated race weekends, so it was more understandable to see drivers racing in other events or series. But now there are 19/20 races in a season with mostly a gap of 2-3 weeks which pretty much takes up the whole racing season.

_________________
Danger is real, fear is choice.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
Best Round Result: 1st (Monaco 2012)
Podiums: 4
2014 Championship Standing: *mumble*


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:43 pm
Posts: 2500
In this modern era of Formula One where the drivers specialize in just one series, many take it for granted that this is the common rule. But back then, drivers and teams participated in many different events. Nuvolari is famous for some incredible Grand Prix wins, but he's just as famous for his exploits in the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio.

Back in the 60's if you mentioned Ferrari, you thought of their LeMans cars, that is what they were famous for back then. It was the same with Colin Chapman and Lotus, he made his name not in Formula One, but initially by winning the Le Mans’ Index of Performance in 1957.

And oval tracks were not exclusive to the USA, what is considered the birthplace of British motor racing is Brooklands, an oval. Monza had an oval built into it too.

The Indy 500 was part of the Formula One calender until 1960, the same year Jimmy started driving in Formula One for Lotus. But he was substituting for Surtees, who had left the team to go race motorcycles at the Isle of Man. Jimmy did not race at the 1960 Indy 500, and it was the last year it was part of the Formula One calender. But he must have heard tales of that race from others in Formula One. And even then Jimmy didn't specialize in just Formula One, he drove many different series and classes.

For Colin Champan, Indy was another challenge, and even with the death of Jimmy and one win there under his belt, he went back many other times, and Graham Hill drove his turbine car there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:20 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: Secret Volcano Lair
specdecible wrote:
There where only around 11 races a season back then (Jim Clark era) and sometimes months separated race weekends, so it was more understandable to see drivers racing in other events or series. But now there are 19/20 races in a season with mostly a gap of 2-3 weeks which pretty much takes up the whole racing season.

Up until the 60s classic sports car races carried more prestige than the World championship. Also sometimes the World championships were run to some lower formulae as well. So it wasnt a proper format, so to speak, like we have now.

_________________
Loading Quote.......
--------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 1917
Interesting that JIm Clark ended up praising Indy! When he was racing there he was annoyed at the locals telling him (not asking) how it was the greatest race on earth, etc. Privately he said it was just another race to him, like any other. And no harder.

As he got older and wiser, and probably at his publisher/editor/ghostwriter's advice, he realised where his bread was so much thicker-buttered than in F1!

Posters here have accurately highlighted why we dont/wón't see crossover drivers as before, that the two forms are so specialised now, drivers starting to race at age two, etc.

History? From 1904 to 1921 the US staged some of the best grand prix road races that attracted the top teasm from both sides of the Atlantic and the top drivers. Both sets managed on roads and tracks equally. And the Americans introduced hydraulic brakes to GP racing on the 1921 French GP-winning Duesenbergs. For me the biggest loss to GP racing was the US turning from road circuits to oval tracks, where all spectators could be charged to watch! Who said Bernie has any new ideas? Unless he's a lot older then we think.

_________________
http://grandprixratings.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Posts: 1892
Location: Perth, Australia
POBRatings wrote:
Interesting that JIm Clark ended up praising Indy! When he was racing there he was annoyed at the locals telling him (not asking) how it was the greatest race on earth, etc. Privately he said it was just another race to him, like any other. And no harder.

As he got older and wiser, and probably at his publisher/editor/ghostwriter's advice, he realised where his bread was so much thicker-buttered than in F1!


Interesting that you say that, because the book I got my information from was released in 1965 - the year he won the race. He criticises some of the expectations of his rivals, who gave him instructions around the track as if he's never raced a motor car before, but can't say enough about the work of the media, the fans and the atmosphere. But maybe that's because Chapman was able to build him fast (but not necessarily reliable) cars each time he visited Indy. It's a lot easier to be happy with an event if you do well each time you go.

_________________
Image
I also have one of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:27 pm
Posts: 31
I think it's a relic of the old era, where as others have said you could combine the two. The closest you'll see these days is when someone wins the Indy 500 and then transfers across to F1, which is pretty rare in itself, only Villeneuve has done it in recent years from when I remember (ironic considering so many people don't rate him).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:37 pm
Posts: 276
Londinium wrote:
I think it's a relic of the old era, where as others have said you could combine the two. The closest you'll see these days is when someone wins the Indy 500 and then transfers across to F1, which is pretty rare in itself, only Villeneuve has done it in recent years from when I remember (ironic considering so many people don't rate him).

Both Juan Pablo Montoya and Sebastien Bourdais made the move from CART/Indycar racing to Formula 1 after Jacques Villeneuve. Admittedly, neither won the WDC like JV, though JPM came close. Nearly forgot Alex Zanardi - who went from F1 to CART to F1 and back to CART.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Posts: 2
Back in the Jim Clark days not all results counted towards the Formula One Drivers Championship. In 1965 there were 10 races but only the best 6 results could be counted, hence missing one race would not be as detrimental to championship hopes. Also this was in the days before sponsorship in F1 and the lure of a huge payday in the Indy 500 was much greater than it is now. Someone commented on the similarities of the formulae but at this time F1 was still running 1.5 litre engines and the Indy Ford engine in Clark`s car was a 4.2 litre (some difference). It is true that aerodynamics did not play the same effect as in today`s cars.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:04 pm
Posts: 64
Surprised that no one's mentioned this yet but look back to 1993. Nigel Mansell (defending F1 Champion at the time) led the Indianapolis 500 with 14 laps left and his inexperience in oval restarts cost him a couple positions including one to eventual winner Emerson Fittipaldi (2-time F1 Champion).

I believe Michael Schumacher made the comment (while being interviewed for the IMS CCTV) during the 2004 or 2005 U.S. Grand Prix that he enjoys watching the Indianapolis 500 but would never compete in it because those speeds on turns with that number of cars in close proximity is not worth the risk (paraphrasing of course).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 94
Toby. wrote:

Any comments or historical facts to start off?


why do u have narain and hrt in ur signature ? are u the only fan that they've been looking for


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:37 pm
Posts: 276
The period when full-time F1 drivers also raced in the Indy 500 was actually quite brief - just a decade from Jack Brabham's pioneering drive in the Cooper T54 in 1961 to 1971 when Denny Hulme and Jack Brabham flew the flag for active F1 racers for the final time. Even between 1950 and 1960, when the Indy 500 was officially a round of the World Drivers Championship, it was run to such different rules to Formula One that it only ever attracted one F1 driver and then only for one year: 1952, when Ascari drove a Ferrari, finishing 31st.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A2jdl, CanadianDan, Clouseau, Grizzly B, hd23, jiminwatford, Kevin McDonald, KIMBO2, Vettel Fan, Zoue and 54 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.107s | 14 Queries | GZIP : Off ]