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 Post subject: Mercedes Testing Times
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:24 am 
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Anyone notice the Mercedes times so far in Barcelona?

Rosberg fastest on Day 1 and Hamilton 4th on Day 2 on the hard Tyre, behind the Lotus by a very small gap which was on the medium, Red Bull by 5 tenths which was on the soft and Mclaren by 8 tenths which were also on the Soft Tyre.

Of course its only testing but looks quite good?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:45 am 
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I guess you could presume that they're better off than McLaren were in pre-seasing testing 2009, but it's still just guesswork. I highly doubt it, but they could even be running under weight, although I don't see how that would be beneficial. But then I don't own or run an F1 team so I wouldn't have a clue!

Just from the point of view of a potentially very competitive season, though, I really hope they are doing well.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:49 am 
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Hold your horses till the start of Australia.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:09 am 
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Thanks for that info OP and keep on posting.

Better than the between-season silence we all have to endure!

Apart from the driver compariosn Mercedes will bring, I also hope the car is up at the front so that Lewis's and Nico's talents are brought in to further stir Alonso, Massa, Vettel,Webber,Raikkonen, and Button up.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:16 am 
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Currently running in 11th place.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:34 am 
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The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me... while strictly true, it's only true in the sense that you can't say 'Team X has the fastest time - meaning Team X has the fastest car.'

where would the fun be if we aren't allowed to try and make predictions and assumptions? people need to relax a bit.

And to keep this on topic, Mercedes outright pace looks promising. My predicition is that they will be in a close fight with Ferrari and Lotus at least in qualifying. I'm not so sure over their long run pace amid rumours that they've made another tyre eater.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:36 am 
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coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me... while strictly true, it's only true in the sense that you can't say 'Team X has the fastest time - meaning Team X has the fastest car.'

where would the fun be if we aren't allowed to try and make predictions and assumptions? people need to relax a bit


There's only one person so far in this thread that has gone as far as to say they are annoyed. Perhaps he/she is the one that needs to relax... :-P


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:37 am 
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fieldstvl wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me... while strictly true, it's only true in the sense that you can't say 'Team X has the fastest time - meaning Team X has the fastest car.'

where would the fun be if we aren't allowed to try and make predictions and assumptions? people need to relax a bit


There's only one person so far in this thread that has gone as far as to say they are annoyed. Perhaps he/she is the one that needs to relax... :-P


Touche ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:38 am 
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A2jdl wrote:
Currently running in 11th place.


You mean 2nd of course don't you...

Rosberg has set a 1:22.627 - which would have been enough for 3rd yesterday...

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:41 am 
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Gothalamide wrote:
A2jdl wrote:
Currently running in 11th place.


You mean 2nd of course don't you...

Rosberg has set a 1:22.627 - which would have been enough for 3rd yesterday...

:D :D :D

Oh no Well it's only testing. :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:41 am 
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I think Mercedes pace is looking better than most expected but I don't think they will be fighting with the top 3 unfortunately


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:56 am 
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Just remember that testing in Barca is cool.

A lot of the problems with the tyres were never seen during testing last year, it wasn't until they got to higher temps the teams started to have issues.

AND that goes for all the teams.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:17 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Just remember that testing in Barca is cool.

A lot of the problems with the tyres were never seen during testing last year, it wasn't until they got to higher temps the teams started to have issues.

AND that goes for all the teams.


Good point. Rosberg only won when weather was consistently cool in Shanghai 2012.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:59 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Just remember that testing in Barca is cool.

A lot of the problems with the tyres were never seen during testing last year, it wasn't until they got to higher temps the teams started to have issues.

AND that goes for all the teams.

They have already issues, all teams
We should hope the tyre usage gets better with higher temperatures.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Just remember that testing in Barca is cool.

A lot of the problems with the tyres were never seen during testing last year, it wasn't until they got to higher temps the teams started to have issues.

AND that goes for all the teams.

They have already issues, all teams
We should hope the tyre usage gets better with higher temperatures.


Now is the time to have issues, not in Melbourne, the Lotus and Sauber looks to be the benchmark for Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:10 pm 
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This must mean they're going to be 5 seconds ahead of the pack after the first lap in Aus then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:19 pm 
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It's the same for fans of all teams - until the end of quali in Oz we will have no real idea - and even that may be meaningless if the teams struggle with tyres in the race (quite likely IMHO). I do hope Merc can get in amongst the other three and mix it up a bit - and I do genuinely believe that if anyone can get a tenth or two extra from a car, it is probably LH - but if the car is unreliable, or keeps trashing its tyres, he is on a hiding to nothing......
only 3 weeks or so to go now......


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Ben3991 wrote:
Anyone notice the Mercedes times so far in Barcelona?

Rosberg fastest on Day 1 and Hamilton 4th on Day 2 on the hard Tyre, behind the Lotus by a very small gap which was on the medium, Red Bull by 5 tenths which was on the soft and Mclaren by 8 tenths which were also on the Soft Tyre.

Of course its only testing but looks quite good?


Merc times haven't been impressive to me. Anyone can do two or three good laps but times overall have been all over the place.

Kimi in the Lotus, to me is in a lot better shape.

This is part of what I posted on the testing thread...

Quote:
I believe the Lotus car was the most consistent on the first day. Kimi did 14 laps all 1.23s and below. No other driver got close to those numbers. Also, Kimi was the only driver that did 4 back to back laps all in the 1.23s between 1:23.609 and 1:23.945. That's a .336 gap from the fastest to the slowest. Even as slower speeds, no other driver was able to produce that kind of consistency.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:03 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Just remember that testing in Barca is cool.

A lot of the problems with the tyres were never seen during testing last year, it wasn't until they got to higher temps the teams started to have issues.

AND that goes for all the teams.

They have already issues, all teams
We should hope the tyre usage gets better with higher temperatures.


Now is the time to have issues, not in Melbourne, the Lotus and Sauber looks to be the benchmark for Mercedes.

you can only hope tyres get better with higher temps, ATM the soft tyre loses 3 sec from 1st to 2nd lap, and is useless after 5 laps. At Melbourne they bring the supersofts. How long will they last?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:05 pm 
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coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me...

The fact that it starts to annoy you doesn't make it any less true. It's just testing.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:16 pm 
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froze wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me...

The fact that it starts to annoy you doesn't make it any less true. It's just testing.


I wasn't contending that. Part of the fun of pre-season is trying to look at the tests and work out who's doing well and who is struggling.

I think most of us are aware that 'It's just testing', so there's no need for it to keep being repeated.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:19 pm 
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Outright pace over a lap isn't indicative of how well a car will do. How a team works the tyres will be far more crucial in terms of performance across a race.

IMO this is particularly something to watch with Mercedes. For the last three years they've shown one lap pace only to be dreadful on the tyres throughout a race. Maybe they will have resolved that problem this year or perhaps the new Pirelli tyres won't be such a problem for them. However so far during testing my impression is that they might still have the same problem. Too early to tell for sure of course.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Pirelli are saying mostly all races are gonna be 3-4 stoppers. Almost All drivers say the degradation is very high. In some cases after just a lap or 2 its so bad that they cant get good data. No matter whoever set whatever fast times we dont know how many times they stopped to change tyre. From the tire eater that Merc was last year and given that the cars are just "Evolution" of last year, things done even begin to look promising for Mercs Goodluck predicting now.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:55 pm 
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Rosberg's lap times over 10-17 lap runs today looked good. I'm not gonna draw out conclusions, but they look competitive with what the other top teams were posting. I can't wait for the first race to come and finally settle some of this. I'm hoping for the best from the Merc. PEACE.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:00 pm 
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coulthards chin wrote:
froze wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me...

The fact that it starts to annoy you doesn't make it any less true. It's just testing.


I wasn't contending that. Part of the fun of pre-season is trying to look at the tests and work out who's doing well and who is struggling.

I think most of us are aware that 'It's just testing', so there's no need for it to keep being repeated.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
Pirelli are saying mostly all races are gonna be 3-4 stoppers. Almost All drivers say the degradation is very high. In some cases after just a lap or 2 its so bad that they cant get good data. No matter whoever set whatever fast times we dont know how many times they stopped to change tyre. From the tire eater that Merc was last year and given that the cars are just "Evolution" of last year, things done even begin to look promising for Mercs Goodluck predicting now.


I dunno if this will be good for Merc or not - it will certainly test the strategy calculators of all the teams! Moving from 2-3 to 3-4 stops may not seem much, but adding a 20-25sec pitstop to each race is quite significant - I can imagine it might help the slower teams a little (because the slower teams may be able to eek out their tyres longer?) whereas for the top teams calculating race pace to the nearest 1/10th they will be anxious to see who blinks first, and of course the risk of pit stop errors/blunders increases?

Slightly OT - does anyone know when Pirelli make the tyres?. Meaning that if they have made a massive batch of tyres for the first half dozen races already - any whinging about the tyres now, is too late?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:29 pm 
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We have no idea on fuel load, engine, brake settings etc etc. Impossible to tell yet perfectly.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:37 pm 
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Gary Andersons comments about the jerez testing - his feuls calculations - were very interesting. I advise anyone who is skeptical about taking anything from testing to read that...bbc website...

Merc look like they are doing ok. they could be up there...ferrari also, lotus also...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:07 pm 
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SWAN wrote:
Gary Andersons comments about the jerez testing - his feuls calculations - were very interesting. I advise anyone who is skeptical about taking anything from testing to read that...bbc website...

Merc look like they are doing ok. they could be up there...ferrari also, lotus also...



Yes but as Gary Anderson says

Quote:
I think I have a way of producing a list that reflects pretty well the true competitive order of the new cars.


He's not 100% sure himself.

There are a number of things that can skew results. For example times work as long as everyone is running a Barca or Jerez set up. How ever this is testing and they are trying to learn about the tyres and the cars under as many conditions as possible. So like McLaren in Brazil who ran something like 32 different downforce levels on the new tyres the teams will be trying various DF levels on the various compounds. Then you have the likes of Merc who are trying out various exhaust layouts inc a Periscope style . So if a team tries something that slows them/causes excess tyre wear that will make them look slow but come race day they will have the proper stuff on so those slow times mean nothing to anyone bar those deciphering the telem.



Also look at the thread that was bumped and then locked. It had on it Merc were quicker than Red bull from this time last year because of the times.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
SWAN wrote:
Gary Andersons comments about the jerez testing - his feuls calculations - were very interesting. I advise anyone who is skeptical about taking anything from testing to read that...bbc website...

Merc look like they are doing ok. they could be up there...ferrari also, lotus also...



Yes but as Gary Anderson says

Quote:
I think I have a way of producing a list that reflects pretty well the true competitive order of the new cars.


He's not 100% sure himself.

There are a number of things that can skew results. For example times work as long as everyone is running a Barca or Jerez set up. How ever this is testing and they are trying to learn about the tyres and the cars under as many conditions as possible. So like McLaren in Brazil who ran something like 32 different downforce levels on the new tyres the teams will be trying various DF levels on the various compounds. Then you have the likes of Merc who are trying out various exhaust layouts inc a Periscope style . So if a team tries something that slows them/causes excess tyre wear that will make them look slow but come race day they will have the proper stuff on so those slow times mean nothing to anyone bar those deciphering the telem.



Also look at the thread that was bumped and then locked. It had on it Merc were quicker than Red bull from this time last year because of the times.


And in Oz 2012 they were!

Johnston even thru my ban I enjoyed living my forum experience thru your posts (that's not meant as homoerotic as it sounds lol)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:20 pm 
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SilverstoneRegular wrote:

And in Oz 2012 they were!

Johnston even thru my ban I enjoyed living my forum experience thru your posts (that's not meant as homoerotic as it sounds lol)



In quali maybe but I seem to remember Vettel doing a much Lauded over take on Rosberg ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
SilverstoneRegular wrote:

And in Oz 2012 they were!

Johnston even thru my ban I enjoyed living my forum experience thru your posts (that's not meant as homoerotic as it sounds lol)



In quali maybe but I seem to remember Vettel doing a much Lauded over take on Rosberg ;)


In the race Red Bull were much faster.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:33 am 
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SWAN wrote:
Gary Andersons comments about the jerez testing - his feuls calculations - were very interesting. I advise anyone who is skeptical about taking anything from testing to read that...bbc website...

Merc look like they are doing ok. they could be up there...ferrari also, lotus also...

Can you post a link? Some of us stateside have no idea where to look on that cluttered BBC site. PEACE.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:52 am 
Here's the testing times for each day. If you want to check out a certain day, just use the "Archive" function.

http://f1tests.info/2013.php

My impressions are that tire degradation is really a major issue, and that anyone can go quick, but the tires burn out within two, three laps. What the teams appear to be doing is trying to find a pace that allows a set of tires to survive 20 laps. You can get sub 1:22's at Barcelona, but just for two laps, or run 1:30's to make it 20 laps.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:43 am 
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coulthards chin wrote:
froze wrote:
coulthards chin wrote:
The 'its only testing' comments are beginning to annoy me...

The fact that it starts to annoy you doesn't make it any less true. It's just testing.


I wasn't contending that. Part of the fun of pre-season is trying to look at the tests and work out who's doing well and who is struggling.

I think most of us are aware that 'It's just testing', so there's no need for it to keep being repeated.


It bears repeating when it becomes obvious that someone is taking it too seriously. There is nothing wrong with having a bit of fun, but working out "who is doing well and who is struggling" isn't about "fun" - because inevitably someone's team is going to be "worked out to be doing poorly" and they are not going to be happy about it. Until they remember that it is just testing.

The problem is, you can't work anything out - you can't even make an educated guess because during a test, they are trying out parts or systems that may require driving a tad off the pace or may force driving off the pace. Furthermore, you never know what the fuel loads are and if they are pushing the car to the maxium or the effect of the specific tyre, drivers, etc, etc. There are so many unknown variables, you literally have to keep in mind that you cannot reach any conclusions - you can't even seriously propose a conclusion. So if someone starts in with "I know it is testing, but Merc looks really good in comparison to the other top teams" - you have to remind that it is only testing and their point is wishful at best.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:41 pm 
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^^
@ Bourbon19 - you're absolutely right - but for many (me included) it is something to while away the idle brain power, wondering who is gonna be where! But it is nearly always more 'wishful thinking' than sensibly derived 'fact'! As I have said elsewhere, I just want to see some proper close paced racing - so it is MY wishful thinking that the teams are closer together....


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