planetf1.com
It is currently Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:31 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » F1 & Motorsport Forum

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
matt8
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:38 am
Posts: 23
Hey all. Can't wait for the new season to get underway.

I'm wondering if anyone knows how the teams go about testing the aero benefits of a coanda exhaust? As far as I know all the teams use scaled down wind tunnels to test the aero on new components, but obviously no team is building scaled down engine and exhaust systems to run in the wind tunnel. How are they testing this?
Top
 Profile  
 
Johnston
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 6587
CFD.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above post maybe tongue in cheek.

"I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual."
Top
 Profile  
 
funkymonkey
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1757
CFD and in testing they are using sensors. Those frame like things with array of straw like sensors attached to them gives them idea where exhaust gases are going.
Most teams will carry multiple versions of exhaust configs based on CFD. And then test it in testing using combination of those sensors and flow vis.
Top
 Profile  
 
Fiki
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 6660
Location: Belgium
funkymonkey wrote:
CFD and in testing they are using sensors. Those frame like things with array of straw like sensors attached to them gives them idea where exhaust gases are going.
Most teams will carry multiple versions of exhaust configs based on CFD. And then test it in testing using combination of those sensors and flow vis.
Did I just miss it, or has flow vis not yet been used in Jerez or Barcelona this year?

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi
Top
 Profile  
 
funkymonkey
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1757
Fiki wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
CFD and in testing they are using sensors. Those frame like things with array of straw like sensors attached to them gives them idea where exhaust gases are going.
Most teams will carry multiple versions of exhaust configs based on CFD. And then test it in testing using combination of those sensors and flow vis.
Did I just miss it, or has flow vis not yet been used in Jerez or Barcelona this year?

Has been used extensively actually. There are few shots of them. There were few from FI yesterday as well. Seen couple of shots of Ferrari with flow vis in Jerez. And I am sure every team has used it.
I guess, teams when running flow vis, directly pull car in the pit and pull curtains so other teams cant see it in testing. And it means we get fewer pics as well.
Top
 Profile  
 
Fiki
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 6660
Location: Belgium
I'll run over the pictures again. Thanks FM.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi
Top
 Profile  
 
funkymonkey
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1757
Here is one image I had saved from yesterday.There are more on that German website link posted in pictures thread. Check Sutil article from that website.

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
-ZeroGravityToilet-
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:37 pm
Posts: 595
matt8 wrote:
Hey all. Can't wait for the new season to get underway.

I'm wondering if anyone knows how the teams go about testing the aero benefits of a coanda exhaust? As far as I know all the teams use scaled down wind tunnels to test the aero on new components, but obviously no team is building scaled down engine and exhaust systems to run in the wind tunnel. How are they testing this?


I don't know, but if I were in charge of a wind tunnel for a F1 team I'd arrange for a hot air blowing machine to 'exactly' replicate the engine exhaust fumes. I'd expect my boss to fire me on the spot if I didn't.
Top
 Profile  
 
pyratheon141
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:24 pm
Posts: 52
matt8 wrote:
Hey all. Can't wait for the new season to get underway.

I'm wondering if anyone knows how the teams go about testing the aero benefits of a coanda exhaust? As far as I know all the teams use scaled down wind tunnels to test the aero on new components, but obviously no team is building scaled down engine and exhaust systems to run in the wind tunnel. How are they testing this?


Aren't they?

You don't need a scaled down engine to produce 'exhaust gas'; you can just pipe a blower into the model. Also, a lot of wind tunnel models (not necessarily F1 though) use scaled engines with moving belts and that.
Top
 Profile  
 
TheThirdTenor
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:33 pm
Posts: 922
taken from grandprix.com:

Quote:
Wind tunnel models incorporate small, ejector-type, air driven pumps that simulate the air flow into the ram intake and augment it as the exhaust flow. The effect of throttle-open and -closed can be tested and the changes in downforce and, more importantly the centre of pressure, can be measured. In recent years, the effect of the exhaust on the centre of pressure, and its variation with throttle opening have led to the true, blown diffuser being abandoned, and exhausts exits moved to blowing over the top of the lower body rear edge. In this position, they probably did more to increase the radiator air exit flow than influence the underbody flow.


http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00360.html

Article is from 2000 though. I'm sure things have developed significantly since then.

It does seem it is difficult to simulate exhaust given how Red Bull and Ferrari struggled to get it right in the early part of last season. Mclaren did get it right whilst Mercedes and Lotus went with solutions that were already tried and tested pre-2010.
Top
 Profile  
 
JohnnyGuitar
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 1622
You can be sure that if we've thought about replicating exhaust flows on wind tunnel models, the teams will have too...
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 

Board index » F1 & Motorsport Forum

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: owenmahamilton and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group