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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:48 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


I second that. Of course the car isn't everything, but it is probably more important than the driver.

30 years ago John Watson said that a slow driver in a fast car would be 2 seconds per lap faster than a fast driver in a slow car. Maybe the difference isn't that big anymore, but with todays handful of extremely competent drivers the car definitely makes the difference. And the car is Newey.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:27 pm 
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When Red Bull bought out Jaguar and started racing in 2005, the man in charge, Dietrich Mateschitz, had a good idea of what he wanted to happen. The transformation was initially slow, but he brought in key people that transformed what was once Jaguar into it's own identity with it's own culture. Lots of money was spent on hiring key people, and building facilities required for a world-class racing effort. He basically designed the team from scratch.

Red Bull already had a few key ingredients in place, such as the Red Bull driver's program. In 2006 Stoddard sold his team to Red Bull in 2006 and it obviously became it's sister racing outfit STR. Over the years key personnell have been recruited, the obvious name Newey. But Red Bull know what it takes for these people to flourish and work to their maximum, and have created a coccoon around Newey, allowing him to work in the manner he chooses, supported by a team of very smart people.

The end result is a driver program streamed to find the next Vettel and put him in the right car at the right time. They have created their own unique culture focused on one thing, success, and a team environment that delivers just that.

Dietrich Mateschitz wanted a winning Formula One team. He didn't just throw money at it, he designed a built a winning team.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:56 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
When Red Bull bought out Jaguar and started racing in 2005, the man in charge, Dietrich Mateschitz, had a good idea of what he wanted to happen. The transformation was initially slow, but he brought in key people that transformed what was once Jaguar into it's own identity with it's own culture. Lots of money was spent on hiring key people, and building facilities required for a world-class racing effort. He basically designed the team from scratch.

Red Bull already had a few key ingredients in place, such as the Red Bull driver's program. In 2006 Stoddard sold his team to Red Bull in 2006 and it obviously became it's sister racing outfit STR. Over the years key personnell have been recruited, the obvious name Newey. But Red Bull know what it takes for these people to flourish and work to their maximum, and have created a coccoon around Newey, allowing him to work in the manner he chooses, supported by a team of very smart people.

The end result is a driver program streamed to find the next Vettel and put him in the right car at the right time. They have created their own unique culture focused on one thing, success, and a team environment that delivers just that.

Dietrich Mateschitz wanted a winning Formula One team. He didn't just throw money at it, he designed a built a winning team.

As ever, a very good post from you. I saw Horner something similar on TV, last year I think, that their success was effectively to let each person do what he does best, to focus only on that and not worry about anything else, so Horner worries about the money etc, and Newey has only the car design to concern himself with.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:17 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Redbull had Newey in 2007 & 08 - What happened? Sister team TR won a race in 2008 while RBR never stood on podium that year!


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:20 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Redbull had Newey in 2007 & 08 - What happened? Sister team TR won a race in 2008 while RBR never stood on podium that year!

The question was What does Redbull have that others dont?

I answered Adrian Newey.

Now unless there is more than one of him my answer stands. I have not mentioned success or failure just the fact Red Bull have him and no-one else does.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:28 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Redbull had Newey in 2007 & 08 - What happened? Sister team TR won a race in 2008 while RBR never stood on podium that year!

The question was What does Redbull have that others dont?

I answered Adrian Newey.

Now unless there is more than one of him my answer stands. I have not mentioned success or failure just the fact Red Bull have him and no-one else does.


Clever.

Redbull also have Marko whose esteemed services other teams lack


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:44 pm 
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SteveC84 wrote:
The question was What does Redbull have that others dont?
I answered Adrian Newey.
Now unless there is more than one of him my answer stands. I have not mentioned success or failure just the fact Red Bull have him and no-one else does.

You should read the original post more closely. The question is not just what RBR has and others dont. It talks of success as a team not who has got whom.

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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:27 pm 
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1. Money
2. Adrian Newey
3. Vettel
4. Ownership

Newey and Vettel may not be the best, but together with ample resources they are ahead of the rest.

Other teams are good but have flaws:

1. Ferrari team has too much pressure from above and the press.

2. McLaren- Hamilton lost his good feeling for the team and they for him (deserved or undeserved)

3. Mercedes- wasted time with Schumacher for 3 years

4. Lotus (Renault)- lost Flavio and Alonso and had to rebuild. But look to have turned the corner

5. Williams- lost BMW engines and then kept old guys on too long

6. Rest are backmarkers with achilles heals in one or more areas - money being foremost


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Well, the above post says nearly all. The only thing they still have to prove is having the will to bounce back after a slow year and, to my opinion, it is then they'll be probably earn the last of the glory they're still missing to make their success an 100% credible one.

So far, their trend has only been up-up-up. Sooner or later, a downfall will come, it's inevitable. When it will happen, we'll just have to see if the gears will work as smooth as in their glory years - and then we'll probably see better which one was goldbricking and which one was not. Newey has somewhat proven himself in that direction in other teams, but a lot of other people from their staff - including Vettel and Horner- have not yet had this chance. Which is probably part of the reason they get a lot of slating, on this forum and in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:33 am 
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They got six cars on track.

Four under the same name and two more engines that hit the opposition.

Without that they would not have the same number of WCs.


If I had to respond in the manner intended by the OP, I'd say they have a great designer that was given enough support and authorship.

I remember a time not long ago when F1 pundits claimed, on the face of McLaren letting Newey go, that the era of the star designer was over, that team work, team structures and computers were the only capable of coping with the complexities of modern aerodynamics.
Now go figure...

More millions and stability also help, but that goes with the aforementioned support, really.

Other than that it's marginal.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Teamwork, focus and innovation combined with a highly professional and competent workforce/driver set-up.

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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:43 am 
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MikeV1987 wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Real answer: Team harmony


:thumbup: Some people prefer to forget Newey's first full effort, the 2008 Red Bull because it was mediocre, teetering between 7th and 8th positions in the constructors championship through the season. It doesn't fit into their narrative of him as the man can make the whole grid tremble with a mere flick of the pencil in his hand.

Once Newey had a team with greater strength in depth around him, the potential was unlocked. Not just down to one man, not at all. All credit to Horner in managing the team and keeping it running as well it does too. I think he doesn't get enough credit for what Red Bull has achieved, when one looks at the struggles of McLaren and Ferrari who though not having Newey, are hardly operating out of garden sheds themselves.

Red Bull have a good amount of money yes, but Toyota and Honda had even more and look where they ended up. The management of the team has been key.

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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:01 am 
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hittheapex wrote:
MikeV1987 wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Real answer: Team harmony


:thumbup: Some people prefer to forget Newey's first full effort, the 2008 Red Bull because it was mediocre, teetering between 7th and 8th positions in the constructors championship through the season. It doesn't fit into their narrative of him as the man can make the whole grid tremble with a mere flick of the pencil in his hand.

Once Newey had a team with greater strength in depth around him, the potential was unlocked. Not just down to one man, not at all. All credit to Horner in managing the team and keeping it running as well it does too. I think he doesn't get enough credit for what Red Bull has achieved, when one looks at the struggles of McLaren and Ferrari who though not having Newey, are hardly operating out of garden sheds themselves.

Red Bull have a good amount of money yes, but Toyota and Honda had even more and look where they ended up. The management of the team has been key.


Where do you think the team would have been if you kept all those elements you listed, and removed Newey? Answer is nowhere. of course he relies on certain things, but at the end of the day he is the golden key to their success just as he was to Williams and Mclaren. He is godly.


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 Post subject: Re: Redbull Vs The Rest
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am 
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hittheapex wrote:
MikeV1987 wrote:
SteveC84 wrote:
What does Redbull have that others dont?

Answer: Adrian Newey


Real answer: Team harmony


:thumbup: Some people prefer to forget Newey's first full effort, the 2008 Red Bull because it was mediocre, teetering between 7th and 8th positions in the constructors championship through the season. It doesn't fit into their narrative of him as the man can make the whole grid tremble with a mere flick of the pencil in his hand.

Once Newey had a team with greater strength in depth around him, the potential was unlocked. Not just down to one man, not at all. All credit to Horner in managing the team and keeping it running as well it does too. I think he doesn't get enough credit for what Red Bull has achieved, when one looks at the struggles of McLaren and Ferrari who though not having Newey, are hardly operating out of garden sheds themselves.

Red Bull have a good amount of money yes, but Toyota and Honda had even more and look where they ended up.
The management of the team has been key.

McLaren and Ferrari have budget which is at least 20% (over $60 million) less than Red Bull.

Toyota were based in Germany, a location which lacks the skill needed. Only one team not based in England have ever won the WCC. Ferrari.
(Though the 1969 Tyrell Matra is listed as the third nationality to win the WCC, it was as far as I can tell based in England.)

Honda did make a car which won the WCC, they quit before it ran its first race. If they hadn't quit, we might be looking at a 4 time WCC.


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