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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:53 pm 
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A team like RBR could have a small test team running different tires at non FIA tracks to collect tire-independent aero data, or test reliability of components. RB could fund it instead of the team, and the employee contracts have confidentiality clauses. No branding on anything (or even retro branding to throw people off), based far away from the team. The driver needn't even know the specifics. Go run around any circuit that doesn't need to worry about preserving a relationship with the FIA. They already have a boat load of extra engines for their show cars, so wouldn't look weird to Renault either. If you then only hand the data over to one or two higher-ups within the team, there is no one to ask "where is this data coming from?" either, protecting the rest of the team from a whistle blower situation.

I'm not saying RBR does this, or that I think they *should*, but it *could* be done and it *would* produce fruitful data.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:00 pm 
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toilet wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
What we see at testing is literally the tip of the iceberg.
I literally hate it when people have literally no idea what "literally" literally means. :uhoh:

But still, thanks for the insightful post. :-P


I believe my wording was accurate and in the choice of words. At the track there may be 30 to 50 people, but back at the home factory there would be easily ten times as many employees industriously hard at work, all contributing to what is going on at the test venue. ;)


Testing is still not "literally the tip of the iceberg", quite simple because F1 testing is F1 testing, there is, in fact, no iceberg at all, hence it cannot literally be anything other than a small part of the enormous amount of work that goes into developing an F1 car.

"Literally" means "taking words in their usual or primary sense without metaphor or allegory"[OED]. It is, colloquially, used to indicate that something is like something else, this usage has become common parlance, but, being pedantic about things, it is an erroneous usage of the term as far as the formal English language is concerned.

However, what we see at testing is most certainly figuratively the tip of the iceberg.

Anyway, back to my self imposed vow of silence.


Disagree...

The metaphor "tip of the iceberg" relates to the fact that the tip that you can see is only a tiny part of a much bigger organism of which the vast majority is hidden out of sight beneath the sea.

This relates to F1 testing "literally being the tip of the iceberg" as it is only a tiny part of what we as F1 fans can see as the vast majority of work that goes into an F1 car is hidden from our view behind the closed doors of constructors bases, in their factories etc...


And that's before you get to the fact that the definition of the word literally has been updated to include the use of the word as an "intensifier" - IE "my eyes were literally glued to the TV during the start of the 2012 Brazilian GP"

:D :D :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:30 pm 
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From the urban dictionary:


1. literally
a much misused adverb, often for emphasis
"I literally died of embarrassment."

"Really? How was reincarnation, you all hail the mods illiterate dipshit?"


This was good too:

5. literally
used to describe something that actually happens or exists. One of the most overused words in modern society. Not to be confused with figuratively, as this is the complete opposite.
Incorrect usage:

A: It was literally raining cats and dogs.

B: Really dipshit? How many scratches do you have?

Correct usage:
A: Dude, Justin Bieber literally has half a billion views on YouTube.
B: fairy cakes, really? Now I know the world is coming to an end

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:37 pm 
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Like literally what the hell happened here?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Why dont teams just place the complete body work on a completely different car and the remaining innards under another body. Then they could test all they want and put 2 + 2 together.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:53 pm 
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From Testing to the English Dictionary. Brilliant. Hope we have some good data.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:57 pm 
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Race2win wrote:
From Testing to the English Dictionary. Brilliant. Hope we have some good data.


Make the most of it as after next week there will only be the Young Readers test to gather more data.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:35 am 
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ashley313 wrote:
A team like RBR could have a small test team running different tires at non FIA tracks to collect tire-independent aero data, or test reliability of components. RB could fund it instead of the team, and the employee contracts have confidentiality clauses. No branding on anything (or even retro branding to throw people off), based far away from the team. The driver needn't even know the specifics. Go run around any circuit that doesn't need to worry about preserving a relationship with the FIA. They already have a boat load of extra engines for their show cars, so wouldn't look weird to Renault either. If you then only hand the data over to one or two higher-ups within the team, there is no one to ask "where is this data coming from?" either, protecting the rest of the team from a whistle blower situation.

I'm not saying RBR does this, or that I think they *should*, but it *could* be done and it *would* produce fruitful data.


I was thinking almost same as you friend
One more thing this post is not about "literally"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:14 am 
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Vyse wrote:
Why dont teams just place the complete body work on a completely different car and the remaining innards under another body. Then they could test all they want and put 2 + 2 together.


It's not simple mathematics. You simply cannot add up like that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:36 am 
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after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:38 am 
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Vyse wrote:
Why dont teams just place the complete body work on a completely different car and the remaining innards under another body. Then they could test all they want and put 2 + 2 together.

You want them to do WHAT AGAIN???!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:43 am 
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Race2win wrote:
Vyse wrote:
Why dont teams just place the complete body work on a completely different car and the remaining innards under another body. Then they could test all they want and put 2 + 2 together.


I thinks something similar, there can be many ways for testing may be some which we can't imagine at the time :idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:02 am 
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Laster wrote:
Race2win wrote:
Vyse wrote:
Why dont teams just place the complete body work on a completely different car and the remaining innards under another body. Then they could test all they want and put 2 + 2 together.

I thinks something similar, there can be many ways for testing may be some which we can't imagine at the time :idea:

Every part of a F1 car is made with precision so it would be impractical to do a patch up job to get the correct data. Also as mentioned earlier the tyres. How can you calculate the exact data for optimum downforce with minimum degradation and optimum fuel efficiency without the actual tyres with whatever compounds. Its impossible. Period.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:50 am 
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Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:



Well we never know unless we work in F1 do we? Anyone here work in F1? :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Ev0lutionz wrote:
Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:



Well we never know unless we work in F1 do we? Anyone here work in F1? :lol:


Yes you are right, we need someone who works in F1 to figure out this matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Ev0lutionz wrote:
Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:



Well we never know unless we work in F1 do we? Anyone here work in F1? :lol:


If I'm not mistaken, one forum member works at RBR.
Don't remember his nickname though.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:


There's little point unless it's exactly matching. They have lots of data already about all the other cars they've produced, many of which will have lots of similar concepts going on. This data is probably useful to get a general idea of things, but with tunnels, CFD, simulation, engineering tolerances and driving standards all so good these days the only real need for track time is to prove the correlation between the theoretical and the physical...and you can't do that with "good enough".

Of course you have set up work and driver understanding to cover too - but again these are pointless with a different machine.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Laster wrote:
Ev0lutionz wrote:
Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:



Well we never know unless we work in F1 do we? Anyone here work in F1? :lol:


Yes you are right, we need someone who works in F1 to figure out this matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


The rules of the racing industry apply to all classes and levels, although in Formula One they have the most money, smartest people, and the highest pressure. I've been involved in Formula One only at a peripheral task, been involved in F5000, FF, and quite a few years as a wrench as a pro level motocrosser. The general principles apply to all.

A Formula One car is an extrmeely complicated animal, and all of it's parts have to work together in a synergestic manner. Everything affects everything else. Parts can be tested in isolation and on test mules, but you cannot be sure it will work as advertised and in the manner desired until it's in the car and on track. You can design an alternator, test it on a bench, in mules, but it could fail in the actual race car.

And in a race car, everything revolves around only one component, the tires. If you are not using the proper tires, all that testing is a waste of time and money. The tires could stress suspension components in a way other tires cannot, set up vibrations, airflow patterns, and not work the brakes as they were designed.

And how on earth can you make a secret test happen? People sympathetic to Mclaren and others sit outside the Ferrari test grounds, and listen for the sound of a Formula One engine. People sympathetic to Ferrari keep an eye on McLaren, Williams, and others. If a convey of trucks head out, cell phones galvanise others. Even if a team rented a secret test track out in the middle of nowhere, someone will see the trucks leaving the factory, someone will figure that something is happening.

How do you think "Spygate" broke? Because Ferrari received a tip from an employee in a photocopying shop near Woking.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Laster wrote:
Ev0lutionz wrote:
Laster wrote:
after reading all this, sometimes its looks secret testing is impossible but on the other hand it seems its possible, not for all teams but some of them can arrange it.the only thing which consider is fear of being caught, all other matters (tires, parts etc) are secondary which can be arrange. may be not exactly matched 2013 specifications but still can provide them enough data :uhoh:



Well we never know unless we work in F1 do we? Anyone here work in F1? :lol:


Yes you are right, we need someone who works in F1 to figure out this matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


The rules of the racing industry apply to all classes and levels, although in Formula One they have the most money, smartest people, and the highest pressure. I've been involved in Formula One only at a peripheral task, been involved in F5000, FF, and quite a few years as a wrench as a pro level motocrosser. The general principles apply to all.

A Formula One car is an extrmeely complicated animal, and all of it's parts have to work together in a synergestic manner. Everything affects everything else. Parts can be tested in isolation and on test mules, but you cannot be sure it will work as advertised and in the manner desired until it's in the car and on track. You can design an alternator, test it on a bench, in mules, but it could fail in the actual race car.

And in a race car, everything revolves around only one component, the tires. If you are not using the proper tires, all that testing is a waste of time and money. The tires could stress suspension components in a way other tires cannot, set up vibrations, airflow patterns, and not work the brakes as they were designed.

And how on earth can you make a secret test happen? People sympathetic to Mclaren and others sit outside the Ferrari test grounds, and listen for the sound of a Formula One engine. People sympathetic to Ferrari keep an eye on McLaren, Williams, and others. If a convey of trucks head out, cell phones galvanise others. Even if a team rented a secret test track out in the middle of nowhere, someone will see the trucks leaving the factory, someone will figure that something is happening.

How do you think "Spygate" broke? Because Ferrari received a tip from an employee in a photocopying shop near Woking.


U raised very relevent points but I have say it earlier that "the only thing which consider, is fear of being caught" other matters can be figure out in some respect, not perfectly according to need but still can give useful data!!!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Individual components and assemblies are analyzed and tested. For instance, some engine manufacturer has a 2014 spec engine, transmission,and related drivetrain components on a dyno and are replicating racing not just one circuit, but the entire season. 2014 spec suspension components are on a 7 post rig and being subjected to the same testing cycles, to see if they work properly, can survive, and determine the life expectancy of each component. Every bit, every piece is going through this rigorous examination.

Somewhere in McLaren, and all the rest of the teams, a mule car is being pushed back and forward, recreating a pit stop, and people are training for that, as well as testing out air guns, jacks, starters, wheel nuts, all that stuff. Last year Mclaren did over 800 cycles of pit stop tests.

But in the end, only when all the bits are bolted together and the car is on track do you learn if the entire package works, and where the weak points are.

And the teams have only a few days of testing to see if it all works, and what doesn't. Just a few, very frantic days.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Individual components and assemblies are analyzed and tested. For instance, some engine manufacturer has a 2014 spec engine, transmission,and related drivetrain components on a dyno and are replicating racing not just one circuit, but the entire season. 2014 spec suspension components are on a 7 post rig and being subjected to the same testing cycles, to see if they work properly, can survive, and determine the life expectancy of each component. Every bit, every piece is going through this rigorous examination.

Somewhere in McLaren, and all the rest of the teams, a mule car is being pushed back and forward, recreating a pit stop, and people are training for that, as well as testing out air guns, jacks, starters, wheel nuts, all that stuff. Last year Mclaren did over 800 cycles of pit stop tests.

But in the end, only when all the bits are bolted together and the car is on track do you learn if the entire package works, and where the weak points are.

And the teams have only a few days of testing to see if it all works, and what doesn't. Just a few, very frantic days.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:51 pm 
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Laster wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Individual components and assemblies are analyzed and tested. For instance, some engine manufacturer has a 2014 spec engine, transmission,and related drivetrain components on a dyno and are replicating racing not just one circuit, but the entire season. 2014 spec suspension components are on a 7 post rig and being subjected to the same testing cycles, to see if they work properly, can survive, and determine the life expectancy of each component. Every bit, every piece is going through this rigorous examination.

Somewhere in McLaren, and all the rest of the teams, a mule car is being pushed back and forward, recreating a pit stop, and people are training for that, as well as testing out air guns, jacks, starters, wheel nuts, all that stuff. Last year Mclaren did over 800 cycles of pit stop tests.

But in the end, only when all the bits are bolted together and the car is on track do you learn if the entire package works, and where the weak points are.

And the teams have only a few days of testing to see if it all works, and what doesn't. Just a few, very frantic days.




:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:




Yes very true that is why testing on the track is much better for the show than no in season testing. No one cares again how fast someone went in a simulator unless they can prove it on the track it means little. Let them test on the track.

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