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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:06 pm 
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Here's my source to back that media day claim up to!

https://twitter.com/jensonbutton/status ... 6424599553

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:25 pm 
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Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo have you never heard of "toeing the company line" Every driver does it. Thats why you should never take anything any one in F1 says at face value.

Does it only count for Button?
You can very well toe the company line and say nothing
but with his former statement about Lowe it's a bit akward



Bit hard to say nothing when you spend most of the day with the British media. Would make pretty gherkin poor TV just watching Checo and JB sitting there saying nothing.

And no it doesn't only count for Button I thought I made that clear with

Quote:
Thats why you should never take anything any one in F1 says at face value.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Johnston wrote:
Haribo wrote:
Johnston wrote:
Haribo have you never heard of "toeing the company line" Every driver does it. Thats why you should never take anything any one in F1 says at face value.

Does it only count for Button?
You can very well toe the company line and say nothing
but with his former statement about Lowe it's a bit akward



Bit hard to say nothing when you spend most of the day with the British media. Would make pretty gherkin poor TV just watching Checo and JB sitting there saying nothing.

And no it doesn't only count for Button I thought I made that clear with

Quote:
Thats why you should never take anything any one in F1 says at face value.

I will remind you by time :)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:58 pm 
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No need to remind me I don't hang on every word ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:27 pm 
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Here's Jenson' earlier comment I guess both comments are somewhat true in as much as Mclaren will survive but nevertheless it's a big blow to lose two major players at once .

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105709

Contradictions do not exist.
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Check you premises.
You will find that one of them is wrong

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:33 am 
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SILVAF0XX wrote:
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pokerman wrote:
Thats big news, is that a case of following the money or following Hamilton?


The money was where Hamilton was, Hamilton is where the money is...

They couldn't buy the entire McLaren team, they buy it piece by piece.


Interesting thought as some key personnel at Mercedes would know who was worth poaching!

I have supported McLaren for a number of seasons, primarily becuase I follow Hamilton and was surprised with myself how quickly this year I have started rooting for Mercedes.

McLaren seem to be losing their way a little... maybe that's a bit extreme, but it feels that way to me - Whitmarsh increasingly annoys me too!


agreed I am now rooting for merc because thats where lewis is. Glad they got lowe now.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:14 am 
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question...can Lowe be in the Mercedes garages during the race without actually doing any work like Sam Micheal was doing last year before he officially joined Mclaren or so they need to get permission from Mclaren?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:56 am 
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they will need permission.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:42 am 
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well it would seem this is a done deal as OP says regardless of what Lauda says about "maybe this isnt a done deal", i dunno how i feel about this move as personally i think that Brawn as a TP is better than Lowe can do for Merc, i think its obvious that Brawn will leave in 2014 and i think that Brawn is the best TP there is in existance right now, i mean what has Lowe achieved seriously? i am genuinely asking as i dont follow the achievements of TPs and TDs very much, Merc have several TDs so what can Lowe add beyond what he knows of McLaren


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:41 am 
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Merc's plan is clear. Buy all the knowledge and leave the other teams with none. Even if we are not doing a good job thereafter, our opposition would be even worse as they do not have the staff to cope.

Their budget must be massive!

I get the feeling that Lauda is on a mission here and that it may be awefull to work for Merc as Lauda would take no prisoners. So if the results are not there the noose will be around your neck all the time.

I cannot see good teamwork with so many egos around


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:11 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
well it would seem this is a done deal as OP says regardless of what Lauda says about "maybe this isnt a done deal", i dunno how i feel about this move as personally i think that Brawn as a TP is better than Lowe can do for Merc, i think its obvious that Brawn will leave in 2014 and i think that Brawn is the best TP there is in existance right now, i mean what has Lowe achieved seriously? i am genuinely asking as i dont follow the achievements of TPs and TDs very much, Merc have several TDs so what can Lowe add beyond what he knows of McLaren



Until Merc actually release a statement I wouldn't take it as granted. Lowe has been caught with his pants down. It's come to light he was talking to Williams and then being lined up as a successor to Brawn. That puts Lowe in a very bad place.

No team is going to want someone that's sniffing around other people around especially when it's not one team but two. So until the move is official it could simply be a case of Ron doesn't want him around the F1 team anymore especially when he's a free agent at the end of the year.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:36 am 
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I think it is a safe bet to say that Lauda had tried to get Newey, so what made Newey stay? did he offer him less than what he gets at RBR? Did Newey want to stay at the place he created? or did Newey just think Merc management is crap?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:41 am 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
I think it is a safe bet to say that Lauda had tried to get Newey, so what made Newey stay? did he offer him less than what he gets at RBR? Did Newey want to stay at the place he created? or did Newey just think Merc management is crap?


I think with Newey he doesn't want to go to a team that means answering to a board. and why would you where he is he's one of the two top men. They only really answer to DM himself, not justify their worth to a load of suits in another country.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:13 am 
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Johnston wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
well it would seem this is a done deal as OP says regardless of what Lauda says about "maybe this isnt a done deal", i dunno how i feel about this move as personally i think that Brawn as a TP is better than Lowe can do for Merc, i think its obvious that Brawn will leave in 2014 and i think that Brawn is the best TP there is in existance right now, i mean what has Lowe achieved seriously? i am genuinely asking as i dont follow the achievements of TPs and TDs very much, Merc have several TDs so what can Lowe add beyond what he knows of McLaren



Until Merc actually release a statement I wouldn't take it as granted. Lowe has been caught with his pants down. It's come to light he was talking to Williams and then being lined up as a successor to Brawn. That puts Lowe in a very bad place.

No team is going to want someone that's sniffing around other people around especially when it's not one team but two. So until the move is official it could simply be a case of Ron doesn't want him around the F1 team anymore especially when he's a free agent at the end of the year.

McLaren got caught with their pants down too. They've lose two big names in less than 6 months because they were stalling around them. They may very well have good reasons for doing so but in both cases the other team has simply offered more cash and got the result they want.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:14 am 
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M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:
I think it is a safe bet to say that Lauda had tried to get Newey, so what made Newey stay? did he offer him less than what he gets at RBR? Did Newey want to stay at the place he created? or did Newey just think Merc management is crap?

Lauda went after Newey for Jaguar in 2001 but it didn't happen. One wonders if Newey isn't keen on Lauda's approach to management.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:19 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
McLaren got caught with their pants down too. They've lose two big names in less than 6 months because they were stalling around them. They may very well have good reasons for doing so but in both cases the other team has simply offered more cash and got the result they want.



As yet Paddy is not confirmed by Merc so as yet you cannot say Merc has offered more cash. His going to Merc ATM is all rumour and speculation NOT fact.

As for pants down and losing two big names because the other offered more money.


Say the rumours are true and Paddy is away to Merc. Out of the two teams Merc and McLaren if you were asked to put money on which one will still be in F1 in 5 years time, which would it be?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:23 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
McLaren got caught with their pants down too. They've lose two big names in less than 6 months because they were stalling around them. They may very well have good reasons for doing so but in both cases the other team has simply offered more cash and got the result they want.



As yet Paddy is not confirmed by Merc so as yet you cannot say Merc has offered more cash. His going to Merc ATM is all rumour and speculation NOT fact.

It is the worst kept secret in F1. He's going to Merc, for a lot of money.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/moto ... 12596.html

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/188415/1/t ... neale.html

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:26 am 
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From your own links

Quote:
It's not yet been confirmed that Lowe will in fact join Mercedes at the end of the current season, but McLaren's announcement that he was being replaced as technical director all-but did the job and strongly suggested that Lowe will be on 'gardening leave' for the rest of 2013 in order to minimise the technical knowledge he's able to take with him to the rival Brackley squad.


Quote:
If someone rolls up and says 'I don't like being here' or 'you're not paying me enough money', even if you've a water-tight contract to tie them in - and in this case we did have a very good contract - you don't want them in the team anyway

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:30 am 
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Lowe is going to Merc Johnston. Just about everyone in the business knows it. Just like Alonso and Ferrari back in 09, Kimi and Ferrari in 06. Everyone knows it's happening regardless of official word. The fact he left McLaren in the first place proves that and the fact Brawn admitted they were looking at Lowe for the future mere weeks ago.

Lowe will be a Mercedes employee by Jan 2014 at the latest. But if you want to continue living in denial so you can wind up the Lewis fans you keep going buddy.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:50 am 
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I'm not in denial but as it's not confirmed it's still speculation I'd rather talk known facts . Other comments have had "Deal done in principle" As we all know in principle can change to no deal. As a schui fan you should know that in Principle doesn't mean much ;)

As for leaving read Neales comments that I quoted above.

Lowe has now been caught talking to Williams and Merc. Now if you were a team boss would you want someone who has been in talks with two teams around your F1 car in the year before his contract naturally ends?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:55 am 
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Schumacher never had a deal done for 2013. He stalled on signing.

The likelihood is Lowe has already signed for Mercedes for next year. The fact McLaren have stuck him in gardening leave kinda confirms that. Williams can't compete with the money Merc would have offered him anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:00 am 
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I never mentioned 2013. think about it when did Schui have a deal done in principle and not follow through.

The gardening leave doesn't confirm it. His contract is up at the end of the year and he's been very publicly caught talking to two teams.

In that situation would you let someone work out their contract as a central figure of the 2014 car?

EDIT: Remember Brawn was put on a years gardening leave when he left Ferrari before he had another Job lined up.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:05 am 
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Lowe is going to Mercedes. That much is obvious to everyone except you Johnston. I suspect you just like winding people up on here these days.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:07 am 
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It may be obvious but it's not fact. It doesn't become fact until it's official.

Unless you can provide me Lowe or Merc saying it is true it is still speculation and assumption. Is that not obvious?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:17 am 
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So he is on gardening leave, not holding a position, and the team are talking about members leaving for telephone number salaries and Jenson has just said having Tim Goss is awesome (as he designed the 2012 car) and good luck to Paddy in his new pursuit.
The team even said they are not responsible for the move!

Yes you are right, he may not be leaving after all.

I am sorry it is a FACT, confirmed by Mclaren.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105726


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:20 am 
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I never said he wasn't leaving. I said the going to merc ATM is speculation.

And as yet NO ONE has offically said he's going to MERC.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:24 am 
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I think it is a little more than speculation. Hardly anyone is speculation, most have accepted it is a done deal already. No one is saying he might go, he is going.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:27 am 
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Okay then bring me a source that 100% confirms it and is official not based on "My Sources say" "Deal done in Principal" or "Insiders say" or similar.

something that bona fide says from Merc or Paddy that he is on his way to Merc.

BTW it's 11:25 GMT 27th Feb 2013.

Just one.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am 
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I understand what Johnston is saying in as much as it hasn't been officially confirmed by Mercedes yet, but surely we can agree that it is happening?

There is too much evidence in recent weeks and months to suggest that this is happening.... no point debating it endlessly.... it is only a matter of time.

I am excited for what this could mean of the Mercedes team, but it does make me feel a little more aprehensive as to what the 2013 season is going to provide!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:36 am 
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SILVAF0XX wrote:
I understand what Johnston is saying in as much as it hasn't been officially confirmed by Mercedes yet, but surely we can agree that it is happening?

There is too much evidence in recent weeks and months to suggest that this is happening.... no point debating it endlessly.... it is only a matter of time.

I am excited for what this could mean of the Mercedes team, but it does make me feel a little more aprehensive as to what the 2013 season is going to provide!

Johnston just likes winding people up about trivial things. We all knows where Lowe is heading, all the journo's know, McLaren know, only Johnston doesn't appear to know.

He probably didn't believe Alonso and Kimi were going to Ferrari until they won their first races in the red cars.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:39 am 
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Johnston wrote:
It may be obvious but it's not fact. It doesn't become fact until it's official.
Unless you can provide me Lowe or Merc saying it is true it is still speculation and assumption. Is that not obvious?

When all the papers have announced that he is moving, Mclaren themselves have said yes he is going and therefore put him on gardenig leave, how can it still be speculation. Yes Merc has not officially announced it, but it was a well know fact they were courting him. He is obviously quiet because he is going. If your working and your company asked you to leave thinking your going to a rival, when your not, would you still keep quiet and accept your termination? Or would you make a noise about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:41 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
I understand what Johnston is saying in as much as it hasn't been officially confirmed by Mercedes yet, but surely we can agree that it is happening?

There is too much evidence in recent weeks and months to suggest that this is happening.... no point debating it endlessly.... it is only a matter of time.

I am excited for what this could mean of the Mercedes team, but it does make me feel a little more aprehensive as to what the 2013 season is going to provide!

Johnston just likes winding people up about trivial things. We all knows where Lowe is heading, all the journo's know, McLaren know, only Johnston doesn't appear to know.

He probably didn't believe Alonso and Kimi were going to Ferrari until they won their first races in the red cars.



Only a few weeks ago Senna to FI was a done deal, Glock was racing for Marussia . Last year Webber had signed for Ferrari Lewis signed for Merc about 6 weeks before he decided to go. Macca had no plan B.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:43 am 
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Race2win wrote:
Johnston wrote:
It may be obvious but it's not fact. It doesn't become fact until it's official.
Unless you can provide me Lowe or Merc saying it is true it is still speculation and assumption. Is that not obvious?

When all the papers have announced that he is moving, Mclaren themselves have said yes he is going and therefore put him on gardenig leave, how can it still be speculation. Yes Merc has not officially announced it, but it was a well know fact they were courting him. He is obviously quiet because he is going. If your working and your company asked you to leave thinking your going to a rival, when your not, would you still keep quiet and accept your termination? Or would you make a noise about it.

Mercedes probably haven't announced anything because they still have to sort out what they are doing with Ross Brawn. He said himself if he leaves Lowe will arrive so I'm imagining his deal is being bargained now and as soon as that is done Lowe will be publicly announced.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:45 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Okay then bring me a source that 100% confirms it and is official not based on "My Sources say" "Deal done in Principal" or "Insiders say" or similar.
something that bona fide says from Merc or Paddy that he is on his way to Merc.
BTW it's 11:25 GMT 27th Feb 2013.
Just one.

Seriously Johnston, reading your comments, im sure most of them here are doing the samething that guy in your profile pic is doing. BTW is that Ron Dennis?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:45 am 
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Johnston wrote:
I never said he wasn't leaving. I said the going to merc ATM is speculation.

And as yet NO ONE has offically said he's going to MERC.

The possibility is quite high it's Mercedes. could have been Williams, but the talk from McLaren about a "exotic" salary seems to hint at a team with more money than Williams or even McLaren themselves.
I doubt it will be RBR,or Ferrari, but who knows, stranger things have happened

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:46 am 
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And Brawn has said he isn't going anywhere. So if the "Deal in principle" relies on Brawn going Paddy might not have a job to go to.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:47 am 
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Johnston wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
I understand what Johnston is saying in as much as it hasn't been officially confirmed by Mercedes yet, but surely we can agree that it is happening?

There is too much evidence in recent weeks and months to suggest that this is happening.... no point debating it endlessly.... it is only a matter of time.

I am excited for what this could mean of the Mercedes team, but it does make me feel a little more aprehensive as to what the 2013 season is going to provide!

Johnston just likes winding people up about trivial things. We all knows where Lowe is heading, all the journo's know, McLaren know, only Johnston doesn't appear to know.

He probably didn't believe Alonso and Kimi were going to Ferrari until they won their first races in the red cars.



Only a few weeks ago Senna to FI was a done deal, Glock was racing for Marussia . Last year Webber had signed for Ferrari Lewis signed for Merc about 6 weeks before he decided to go. Macca had no plan B.

Senna never signed for FI, Webber never signed for Ferrari and prove Lewis signed his deal 6 weeks before he even decided to leave. He decided to leave McLaren and signed for Merc after that! He said as much himself.

In a team like Marussia we all know a deal might not be a deal for long if money gets tight, Glock would have known that as well. It sounds like he had a plan B anyway and was already talking to BMW about the DTM.

But your claims about Senna and Webber are bullshit. They talked to said teams but never signed a deal with either.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:47 am 
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Laura23 wrote:
Race2win wrote:
Johnston wrote:
It may be obvious but it's not fact. It doesn't become fact until it's official.
Unless you can provide me Lowe or Merc saying it is true it is still speculation and assumption. Is that not obvious?

When all the papers have announced that he is moving, Mclaren themselves have said yes he is going and therefore put him on gardenig leave, how can it still be speculation. Yes Merc has not officially announced it, but it was a well know fact they were courting him. He is obviously quiet because he is going. If your working and your company asked you to leave thinking your going to a rival, when your not, would you still keep quiet and accept your termination? Or would you make a noise about it.

Mercedes probably haven't announced anything because they still have to sort out what they are doing with Ross Brawn. He said himself if he leaves Lowe will arrive so I'm imagining his deal is being bargained now and as soon as that is done Lowe will be publicly announced.


I agree with this laura and would imagine there is some serious negotiating going on behind closed doors.

I think they will need to be very careful that they don't de-rail this season by causing friction with Ross Brawn Nick Fry etc...

I personally hope Ross stays as I think he is an asset to any team even if his overall responsibilities are somewhat reduced.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:48 am 
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Johnston wrote:
And Brawn has said he isn't going anywhere. So if the "Deal in principle" relies on Brawn going Paddy might not have a job to go to.

Brawn said he'll leave when Lowe arrives. Lowe won't be arriving until 2014. Brawn will most likely leave at the end of 2013. That is what every credible source related to F1 is saying. It all makes sense with the evidence we know. Only you are trying to deny everything so strongly.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Laura23 wrote:
Senna never signed for FI, Webber never signed for Ferrari and prove Lewis signed his deal 6 weeks before he even decided to leave. He decided to leave McLaren and signed for Merc after that! He said as much himself.

In a team like Marussia we all know a deal might not be a deal for long if money gets tight, Glock would have known that as well. It sounds like he had a plan B anyway and was already talking to BMW about the DTM.

But your claims about Senna and Webber are bullshit. They talked to said teams but never signed a deal with either.



You completely missed the point.

The speculation was Senna had signed for FI, Webber had signed for Ferrari and the Journos were saying in the Summer break that Lewis had signed for Merc when in reality he didn't sign until September having only made the decision after Singapore.

Loads of people were saying they were done deals when in reality they weren't. In each case the SPECULATION was wrong.

Oh BTW I'm still waiting for that one source that confirms it as FACT (That he is indeed joining Merc)

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