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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:28 am 
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so this one has been bothering me a while and albeit looking scarbs blog up and down i couldn't find a definitve answer... will there be restrictions on further developing the V6 turbos after they have been introduced or are we going back to good old times before the engine freeze?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:57 am 
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I've been wondering the same thing and not found an answer. Surely there has to be a period of development at least, they are supposed to be designed for efficiency and without constant development they aren't going to get the most efficient solution. What if a manufacturer has made a slight miscalculation and efficiency drops below the expected once fitted to the cars and will never finish a race on the 100 kg of fuel permitted? If they cannot develop a solution a third of the field will be out of the race before the start!

There are too many "what ifs" to consider, surely they will be given at least a year or two to iron out any issues!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:33 am 
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Im not an engineer but from what I understand is, most of the engine is managed by the ECU. So they may allow for changes in the ECU. The maufacturers R&D departments spend millions of Euros on engine development so Im sure the engine may have no faults per say, and its more cost effective to rather change the engine mapping than the whole engine. But perhaps a proper engineer could answer it better.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Just give them an engine displacement and so much fuel per kilometer. Let them figure out the rest on their own. I would rather like to see different engine layouts from different manufactures. I never figured out why the FIA said everyone had to run v-10's. They didn't make that rule until after the last mfg., Ferrari, finally made the switch anyway. If VW wants a Renault want a 4 cyl & VW want a W-12, let them.

Even Indycar lets you change the mapping during the race. If you are running out of gas, you have to back it down, or gamble with not finishing.

I always found it exciting when someone ran out of fuel with just laps to go. You no longer have cars breaking down with regularity to keep even that last bit of anticipation.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:10 pm 
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donr wrote:
I always found it exciting when someone ran out of fuel with just laps to go.

i remember a quote from gerhard berger, who once said that during his ferrari days they sometimes new they were going to run out of fuel anyway so just opted to go full-speed and provide a nice show to the fans, later claiming a technical failure...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:42 pm 
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http://blog.renault.com/en/2013/02/28/r ... ner-teams/

Quote:
What will change in 2014

F1 is about to undergo one of the most important transformations in its history. After a 7-year period during which engine specifications were frozen, the new regulations due to come into effect in 2014 will see engine makers play a central role in the cars’ overall performance. By placing engines at the very heart of the sport once again, motor racing’s blue riband competition will stand out more than ever as a showcase for cutting edge technology.





The new restrictions specified by the 2014 FIA regulations are threefold:

A double-restriction concerning fuel: the amount of fuel that can be used during races has been reduced to a maximum of 140 litres; and a fuel flow reduction, with maximum fuel flow rate reduced to 140 litres/hour.

A double restriction concerning the flow of electrical energy: the amount of energy that can be recovered during each lap has been reduced and teh amaoudn of energy that can be restored has also been reduced.

Development costs have been limited and the number of engines each driver can use in the course of the season has been further capped: five per driver in 2014, then four per driver from 2015 (compared to eight per driver at the moment).

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:18 pm 
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But that rule doesn't say that all 5 (4) engines must be 100% alike. A driver can start the championship with one engine, in the meantime the R&D cranks up another one, still V6 turbo but more developed, which takes its place as engine no. 2.used by the driver and so on and so forth.

Honestly, since 2014 is a transition year, I would allow ...let's say...2 major upgrades (physical internal modifications) for the engine during one season.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:04 pm 
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donr wrote:

Even Indycar lets you change the mapping during the race. If you are running out of gas, you have to back it down, or gamble with not finishing.



you can do this in f1

you can make the car run rich or lean depending on the fuel you have

the restrictions on mapping are to stop the off throttle engine blowing but there are no restrictions on how much or less fuel goes through the engine


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:47 am 
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donr wrote:
Just give them an engine displacement and so much fuel per kilometer. Let them figure out the rest on their own. I would rather like to see different engine layouts from different manufactures. I never figured out why the FIA said everyone had to run v-10's. They didn't make that rule until after the last mfg., Ferrari, finally made the switch anyway. If VW wants a Renault want a 4 cyl & VW want a W-12, let them.

Even Indycar lets you change the mapping during the race. If you are running out of gas, you have to back it down, or gamble with not finishing.

I always found it exciting when someone ran out of fuel with just laps to go. You no longer have cars breaking down with regularity to keep even that last bit of anticipation.


The FIA locked down to V10s when Toyota came into F1 and said they were building a V12 instead. This caused havoc in the background since Toyota showed up with a blank check. Toyota was about to buy a championship, or at least try. The FIA locked down to V10's so no other manufacturer already in F1 with a V10 would spend even more R&D simply to test a V12 engine.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:28 am 
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Now, that was a motivated and correct move. But from locking down to V10, to clamping down any V10 internal modification for 4 years in a row (is it 4 or 5?)...that's a little bit too much for the show.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:25 pm 
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ATM2 wrote:
But that rule doesn't say that all 5 (4) engines must be 100% alike. A driver can start the championship with one engine, in the meantime the R&D cranks up another one, still V6 turbo but more developed, which takes its place as engine no. 2.used by the driver and so on and so forth.

Honestly, since 2014 is a transition year, I would allow ...let's say...2 major upgrades (physical internal modifications) for the engine during one season.

I don't think they are official rules. There is probably everything in official rule book for 2014 F1 season. That article is just blog post by Renault. I just quoted some relevant parts from the blog.

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