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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:08 pm 
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Vettel's relationships with the two men who have probably been his biggest rivals over the seasons, Alonso and Hamilton are very contrasting (You could make a case for Webber but that was magnified by being teammates).

I watched a snippet of an interview with Alonso just after Seb wrapped up title number 4.While he said that Seb would go down as one of the legends, he subsequently warned that those 4 titles would be a burden when Vettel found himself in a car like everybody elses. I just don't get the imoression that Alonso has ever had a great deal of respect for his abilities. It seemed the animosity was a bit one sided, although Horner was the one who'd poke back at Alonso.

Vettel and Hamilton have had ups and downs and Hamilton clearly believes he is better than Seb. But outside of the heat of battle they have tended to say some very warm things about each other. In 2013 Hamilton called him humble and deserving of success as I recall. The respect still being there despite being head to head in two championship fights in a role is refreshing.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:19 am 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Vettel's relationships with the two men who have probably been his biggest rivals over the seasons, Alonso and Hamilton are very contrasting (You could make a case for Webber but that was magnified by being teammates).

I watched a snippet of an interview with Alonso just after Seb wrapped up title number 4.While he said that Seb would go down as one of the legends, he subsequently warned that those 4 titles would be a burden when Vettel found himself in a car like everybody elses. I just don't get the imoression that Alonso has ever had a great deal of respect for his abilities. It seemed the animosity was a bit one sided, although Horner was the one who'd poke back at Alonso.

Vettel and Hamilton have had ups and downs and Hamilton clearly believes he is better than Seb. But outside of the heat of battle they have tended to say some very warm things about each other. In 2013 Hamilton called him humble and deserving of success as I recall. The respect still being there despite being head to head in two championship fights in a role is refreshing.

Yeah Vettel is a 4 time WDC and one of the best drivers on the grid and should be respected as such.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:10 am 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Vettel's relationships with the two men who have probably been his biggest rivals over the seasons, Alonso and Hamilton are very contrasting (You could make a case for Webber but that was magnified by being teammates).

I watched a snippet of an interview with Alonso just after Seb wrapped up title number 4.While he said that Seb would go down as one of the legends, he subsequently warned that those 4 titles would be a burden when Vettel found himself in a car like everybody elses. I just don't get the imoression that Alonso has ever had a great deal of respect for his abilities. It seemed the animosity was a bit one sided, although Horner was the one who'd poke back at Alonso.

Vettel and Hamilton have had ups and downs and Hamilton clearly believes he is better than Seb. But outside of the heat of battle they have tended to say some very warm things about each other. In 2013 Hamilton called him humble and deserving of success as I recall. The respect still being there despite being head to head in two championship fights in a role is refreshing.

To be fair Alonso has said some nice things in the past, around the halfway point in 2013 I seem to remember him saying something like "last year he won because he had the best car, this year he's winning because he's been the best driver".

I don't think it helped matters that Vettel moved to Ferrari just as they were on the up and started lapping Alonso, that understandably cant have felt good. I do think the occasional digs at Vettel are a shame though because as you say it all seems a bit one sided and I don't think Alonso does himself justice when he says them.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Vettel's relationships with the two men who have probably been his biggest rivals over the seasons, Alonso and Hamilton are very contrasting (You could make a case for Webber but that was magnified by being teammates).

I watched a snippet of an interview with Alonso just after Seb wrapped up title number 4.While he said that Seb would go down as one of the legends, he subsequently warned that those 4 titles would be a burden when Vettel found himself in a car like everybody elses. I just don't get the imoression that Alonso has ever had a great deal of respect for his abilities. It seemed the animosity was a bit one sided, although Horner was the one who'd poke back at Alonso.

Vettel and Hamilton have had ups and downs and Hamilton clearly believes he is better than Seb. But outside of the heat of battle they have tended to say some very warm things about each other. In 2013 Hamilton called him humble and deserving of success as I recall. The respect still being there despite being head to head in two championship fights in a role is refreshing.

To be fair Alonso has said some nice things in the past, around the halfway point in 2013 I seem to remember him saying something like "last year he won because he had the best car, this year he's winning because he's been the best driver".

I don't think it helped matters that Vettel moved to Ferrari just as they were on the up and started lapping Alonso, that understandably cant have felt good. I do think the occasional digs at Vettel are a shame though because as you say it all seems a bit one sided and I don't think Alonso does himself justice when he says them.

I think it can be seen as jealousy from Alonso, some of things he says fast propels him to being a Stewart/JV kind of figure.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:01 am 
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pokerman wrote:
I think it can be seen as jealousy from Alonso, some of things he says fast propels him to being a Stewart/JV kind of figure.

There's no similiarity between being a Jackie Stewart and being a Jacques Villeneuve.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it can be seen as jealousy from Alonso, some of things he says fast propels him to being a Stewart/JV kind of figure.

There's no similiarity between being a Jackie Stewart and being a Jacques Villeneuve.

...as in giving opinions that nobody really wants to listen to?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it can be seen as jealousy from Alonso, some of things he says fast propels him to being a Stewart/JV kind of figure.

There's no similiarity between being a Jackie Stewart and being a Jacques Villeneuve.

...as in giving opinions that nobody really wants to listen to?

This makes more sense, I was confused as well as to what you meant!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it can be seen as jealousy from Alonso, some of things he says fast propels him to being a Stewart/JV kind of figure.

There's no similiarity between being a Jackie Stewart and being a Jacques Villeneuve.

...as in giving opinions that nobody really wants to listen to?

This makes more sense, I was confused as well as to what you meant!

Fair enough :)

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2013: 5th Place
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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:14 am 
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Someone want to explain to me what happened to Sebastian's driving talent this afternoon??? :?

That was abysmal!! :uhoh:

Max's stupidity sucked all the oxygen out of the room after the race. Didn't hear why Vettel couldn't get out of his own way.

Looked to me like he had trouble selecting a gear at the start of the pace lap.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:26 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Someone want to explain to me what happened to Sebastian's driving talent this afternoon??? :?

That was abysmal!! :uhoh:

Max's stupidity sucked all the oxygen out of the room after the race. Didn't hear why Vettel couldn't get out of his own way.

Looked to me like he had trouble selecting a gear at the start of the pace lap.


Malfunctioning sensor on the formation lap which apparently affected his race pace.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:26 am 
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Soft tyres weren’t an advantage after all. Valtteri getting past at turn 1 threw the strategy out the window.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:43 am 
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shay550 wrote:
Soft tyres weren’t an advantage after all. Valtteri getting past at turn 1 threw the strategy out the window.

Yeah, Kimi had those problems too. Not often you see Arrivabene instruct Kimi to go ahead of Seb tho.

Wonder what kind of sensor was out of whack???

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:48 am 
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... l/3212426/

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:57 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-sensor-problem-hurt-vettel/3212426/

Thanks! Not a lot of information but probably as much explanation as we are going to get from Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:05 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-sensor-problem-hurt-vettel/3212426/

Thanks! Not a lot of information but probably as much explanation as we are going to get from Ferrari.


Because he does not cry to the press about every little problem that affects his race.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:32 pm 
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What is the general feeling here on Vettel's level of performance this season? For all the mistakes made, I still only think it was a bad season by his standards, and that compared to the vast majority of the grid he still performed better, and still has generally metronomic and strong pace. The spotlight is on him because of the battle at the front of the grid, but a bad season for Vettel is a good one for most other drivers on the grid.


Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Invade wrote:
What is the general feeling here on Vettel's level of performance this season? For all the mistakes made, I still only think it was a bad season by his standards, and that compared to the vast majority of the grid he still performed better, and still has generally metronomic and strong pace. The spotlight is on him because of the battle at the front of the grid, but a bad season for Vettel is a good one for most other drivers on the grid.


Thoughts?

Well, he is the guy in the fastest car (or joint fastest, let's not get down to that now), it is probably "easy" to say that he has metronomic and strong pace. But he has managed only 5 wins so far, hasn't he? In the end of the day, that's what matters. Vettel just didn't seem to be 100% on, he had some mistakes and combined with the Ferrari blunders (and their development issue), he lost the WDC. It is not that he drove badly per ce, but he did drop the ball in the races he should have cleaned up.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Didn't make the most of the car he had underneath him when it was on top, and that came back to really bite him when Ferrari went off the boil. Germany was the standout error, though even with that it's not been an absolutely terrible year. 6/10 for me, probably on reflection will end up being one of the worst years of his career purely based on what could have been.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Invade wrote:
What is the general feeling here on Vettel's level of performance this season? For all the mistakes made, I still only think it was a bad season by his standards, and that compared to the vast majority of the grid he still performed better, and still has generally metronomic and strong pace. The spotlight is on him because of the battle at the front of the grid, but a bad season for Vettel is a good one for most other drivers on the grid.


Thoughts?

In the first half of the year I felt he was driving quickly but erratically, but lately I have the feeling he's not even driving quickly. Kimi has been beating him with far more frequency than I would expect considering the usual gap between the two.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:20 pm 
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I would probably concur that this has been Vettel's worst year. 2014 was a year where he probably subconsciously backed off a bit, although I still think he was trying his best on a conscious level. 2018 has been the year that has done the most damage to his standing amongst the greats sinply because the title was such a huge possibility and he let it slip.

It would be extremely premature to write him off though. There's a lot of talk about whether Hamilton can exceed Schumacher's 7 world titles. But Vettel could well beat it himself if Ferrari continue on their upwards trajectory.

Vettel will forever be remembered as one of the most successful drivers in history. The next couple of seasons though will determine whether he gets remembered as an all time great which sounds mad for a man who is four times a world champion.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Invade wrote:
What is the general feeling here on Vettel's level of performance this season? For all the mistakes made, I still only think it was a bad season by his standards, and that compared to the vast majority of the grid he still performed better, and still has generally metronomic and strong pace. The spotlight is on him because of the battle at the front of the grid, but a bad season for Vettel is a good one for most other drivers on the grid.


Thoughts?

I wouldn't disagree most drivers wouldn't be able to match his general speed.

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2013: 5th Place
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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Invade wrote:
What is the general feeling here on Vettel's level of performance this season? For all the mistakes made, I still only think it was a bad season by his standards, and that compared to the vast majority of the grid he still performed better, and still has generally metronomic and strong pace. The spotlight is on him because of the battle at the front of the grid, but a bad season for Vettel is a good one for most other drivers on the grid.


Thoughts?

Well, he is the guy in the fastest car (or joint fastest, let's not get down to that now), it is probably "easy" to say that he has metronomic and strong pace. But he has managed only 5 wins so far, hasn't he? In the end of the day, that's what matters. Vettel just didn't seem to be 100% on, he had some mistakes and combined with the Ferrari blunders (and their development issue), he lost the WDC. It is not that he drove badly per ce, but he did drop the ball in the races he should have cleaned up.

Yes as a general overview only 5 wins in a car as good as what the Ferrari is a poor return for a driver of Vettel's quality.

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2013: 5th Place
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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Last edited by pokerman on Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Didn't make the most of the car he had underneath him when it was on top, and that came back to really bite him when Ferrari went off the boil. Germany was the standout error, though even with that it's not been an absolutely terrible year. 6/10 for me, probably on reflection will end up being one of the worst years of his career purely based on what could have been.

Yeah I see Germany much the same as Singapore 2017, races were Vettel should have taken a strong lead in the WDC but the opposite happened, instead of applying pressure he brought pressure both on to himself and his team.

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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Vettel and Hamilton exchange helmets...


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