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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:40 pm 
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I thought I would post something positive in the underused Official Vettel thread, as everything seems to be negative or at least focusing on the negative reactions to him in the other threads.
Bollard wrote:
I imagine Vettel fans being somewhat like Manchester united fans or any top leading team fans.

(They've never been to Manchester, nor know anything about it apart from old Trafford)

Basically a glory supporter. Anyone who is English and supports this guy needs to be deported, I just don't see the logical sense. Let me explain why.

1) The company, it's an energy drinks company, not a car manufacturer.
2) It's natural you want to see your own countrymen win.

I can't even be bothered to finish my post off
And unfortunately it's the same in here.
Both of your 'explanations' are logical fallacies.

Vettel is well on the way to becoming remembered as one of the sport's all time greats, a Fangio, Senna, Schumacher... Ownership and nationality plays no part in recognising and appreciating great talent when one sees it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:42 am 
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Bollard wrote:
I imagine Vettel fans being somewhat like Manchester united fans or any top leading team fans.

(They've never been to Manchester, nor know anything about it apart from old Trafford)

Basically a glory supporter. Anyone who is English and supports this guy needs to be deported, I just don't see the logical sense. Let me explain why.

1) The company, it's an energy drinks company, not a car manufacturer.
2) It's natural you want to see your own countrymen win.

I can't even be bothered to finish my post off

You know not how far is that from the truth. Sadly, the old forum is lost to prove you wrong, but I was his fan since his early days. I even think that most of his fans are those that started cheering for him at the beggining of his carrier (2007-2010), even before he won his first title.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:47 am 
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As there are much better teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich why would you support MUnited if you are only looking for "glory" :)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:25 am 
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Brilliant drive by Sebastian! A really special drive. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:14 am 
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Bollard wrote:
I imagine


You have a wild imagination. Can't speak for other Vettel fans but I've been following him before he even got into F1.

But really, did you have to do this? You had to come barge in a topic for his fans only to mock and ridicule them, calling them "glory supporters"? There weren't enough threads already that you could abuse, it had to be this one?

Quote:
I can't even be bothered to finish my post off


Good. Now back under your rock and stay there. Thank you.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:25 am 
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Bollard wrote:
I imagine Vettel fans being somewhat like Manchester united fans or any top leading team fans.

(They've never been to Manchester, nor know anything about it apart from old Trafford)

Basically a glory supporter. Anyone who is English and supports this guy needs to be deported, I just don't see the logical sense. Let me explain why.

1) The company, it's an energy drinks company, not a car manufacturer.
2) It's natural you want to see your own countrymen win.

I can't even be bothered to finish my post off

I disagree, I think people should support drivers based on whether they like the driver or they think hes the best, not if they are from the same country as them.

That logic to me is backwards & outdated.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:12 am 
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I will never support drivers from my own country just because they are from my country.
Not that there have been many anyway and supporting Cucumber / Chandhok can only go so far as hoping they make Q2 or beat their highly rated teammates in Qualy.

I support Vettel simply because - In my eyes he is the best driver out there. And more importantly, he seems to not take his immense gift very seriously and is always trying hard to put his best as if he was a rookie.

Also , his awkward demeanor & broken germanic english helped me like him initially.

Am I a glory hunter? I would say no because I used to dislike Schumacher like crazy when he was sweeping all the glory. In fact if I have to say something negative abt Vettel , its his fascination with Schumi. Now I actually can appreciate Schumi's acheivements when I think abt it coolly And I can now understand Shumi supporters of yesteryears much better now and hope that Vettel detractors will grow up like I did.


Last edited by F1yer on Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:47 am 
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Amazing win by Vettel yesterday, didn't put a foot/wheel wrong all weekend (although he cut it close in Q3). I didn't really rate him initially - I thought the car was beating the other cars and he was just beating Webber. Sure that may be part of it but his consistency and domination is hugely impressive.

The podium 'booing' is saddening and quite frankly embarrassing. I'm not sure if it's a reflection of the 'modern' F1 audience, or that all the other top drivers' fans are bad losers (or something else). But the way he handles it is winning me over.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:11 pm 
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When I went from being a casual watcher to being someone who actuall follows the sport there were no drivers from my home country. After watching a bit I became a Kimi because he was good and his different personality made him stand out to me.

So according to you I should have become a Scott Speed fan when he entered the sport?

I will admit to wanting to see him do well at first, but once he showed what an donkey he was I couldn't wait to see him go.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:08 pm 
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" Alonso, who did a great job again in Singapore in a car that is obviously not as good as the Red Bull, is clearly not enjoying seeing Vettel win more championships than he has so far.

But Fernando Alonso and Sebastian Vettel are two of the all-time greats of F1. It doesn't matter how many championships each of them wins; they are equal.

The numbers are irrelevant. As complete packages, Vettel and Alonso are in a league of their own in F1 in the modern age."
David Coulthard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24199407


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:18 am 
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Is he wearing lipstick?

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:36 am 
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One more flawless performance from Seb, one more victory, a huge step closer to that fourth WDC as this time it was Ferrari and Mercedes dropping the ball with lotus at the front.

Fun trivia bit: if he wins next race he will surpass Schumachers win ratio. He'll end the season up in that stat if he wins two more races. It's starting to look unlikely he won't be able to manage that

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:49 am 
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Great immaculate race. Another victory for soon to be 4 times champion!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:00 pm 
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After having many frightening, shocking, depressing moments that Newey cars caused for Hakkinen, Coulthard, Montoya and Raikkonen, i was on the edge of my seat after the second SC deployment. I am sure, i used many calories during the closing stages of the race while wishing reliability for Seb's car and position holding for Hulkenberg.

I was very tired in the end, but it was worth it. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:17 am 
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Finally some appreciation.

Kimi: "Vettel is among greats... he's a very good guy and a good driver as well."

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Last edited by Lt. Drebin on Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:35 am 
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Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:03 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


If Vettel scores another Grand Chelem in Japan, that will be his 5th Grand Chelem and his 3rd Consecutive Grand Chelem. He will hold this record by himself in the history books. With that, he will join Schumacher and Fangio for winning 5 races consecutively as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:05 pm 
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iAltair wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


If Vettel scores another Grand Chelem in Japan, that will be his 5th Grand Chelem and his 3rd Consecutive Grand Chelem. He will hold this record by himself in the history books. With that, he will join Schumacher and Fangio for winning 5 races consecutively as well.


No doubt, the kid flies in some rarefied air.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


Korea wasnt a GC. Narrowly missed because Webber lead a few laps - shame!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:41 pm 
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F1yer wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


Korea wasnt a GC. Narrowly missed because Webber lead a few laps - shame!


No offence, but it was. Reportedly Webber pitted just as he was reaching the end of his first leading lap, Vettel took him on the straight while webber was in the pits. TEssentially Vettel was able to lead when crossing the line, meaning he led every lap.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Bollard wrote:
I imagine Vettel fans being somewhat like Manchester united fans or any top leading team fans.

(They've never been to Manchester, nor know anything about it apart from old Trafford)

Basically a glory supporter. Anyone who is English and supports this guy needs to be deported, I just don't see the logical sense. Let me explain why.

1) The company, it's an energy drinks company, not a car manufacturer.
2) It's natural you want to see your own countrymen win.

I can't even be bothered to finish my post off


If you analyse much of F1's fans, the equivalent of Manchester United fans are really the fans of Ferrari. Manchester United and Ferrari are the most recognisable brands in their respective sports (also associated with the colour Red), and sell more merchandise than any other team. They have some history of success, but they've been surpassed by rivals in recent years, but continue to remain the most popular. Vettel is thus more like Barcelona and Bayern Munich (a German wearing a blue kit too!).

Glory supporters don't just support the most successful team - they are more concerned with being seen as fans of the sport, so they tend to associate themselves with the most recognisable brand. Often, this is the most successful team at the moment, but there is a reason why a lot of relatively new fans (in Asia, Africa) support Liverpool, Real Madrid or Juventus rather than say, Bayern Munich - the former 3 teams are more easily identified as football teams than Bayern.

For glory hunters "being seen" to be fans of the sport is more important than supporting the winning team. That is why you have far more Alonso and Hamilton fans than Vettel fans even though the German will soon have more championships than the other two put together.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:20 pm 
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ColdWinter wrote:
iAltair wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Posted this in another thread but its something fans may want to know.

Quote:
Only 3 drivers in history have have had 2 consecutive Grand Chelem's (Pole, Win, Fastest lap & lead every lap of the race, only 53 have ever been achieved)

Alberto Ascari (1952 German Grand Prix and 1952 Dutch Grand Prix)

Jim Clark (1963 Dutch Grand Prix and 1963 French Grand Prix)

Sebastian Vettel (2013 Singapore Grand Prix and 2013 Korean Grand Prix).

If Vettel can do the same at Japan he will hold the record by himself, still pretty cool that he is sharing it with two drivers of that stature.


It would be truly impressive if he could do the same this weekend.


If Vettel scores another Grand Chelem in Japan, that will be his 5th Grand Chelem and his 3rd Consecutive Grand Chelem. He will hold this record by himself in the history books. With that, he will join Schumacher and Fangio for winning 5 races consecutively as well.


No doubt, the kid flies in some rarefied air.


Yup. These stats are quite extraordinary. The 4 consecutive championships alone (assuming he gets it) puts him in a "legendary" category. But in F1, we have to take these details with a pinch of salt since it's a combination of {machinery, driver} which matters unlike in most other sports.

One feat which Vettel could achieve this year would also be quite remarkable: He could score more points than the 2nd-placed constructor. This didn't even occur in '11, but Vettel is just 12 points behind Ferrari so far this year. In recent seasons, this feat has occurred in '92, '93, '02, '04. In these years though, the teammate of the champion was also a regular winner and finished second in the WDC, except in '92 when Hill was 4 points behind 2nd-placed Senna.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:48 pm 
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Go Sebastian Go!!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:27 am 
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some of Sebastian's words after qualifying:

"First of all congratulations to Mark he did a very good lap."

"Yeah we had an issue in qualifying but I'm not a big fan of 'without this, with this, if this' as it's always unknown but as a fact we are P2."*

Very important racing perspective from Sebastian Vettel. He knows he can not do miracles, he is also aware of the fact that his calibre is not ahead nor behind him. This is the mentality of soon to be 4 times F1 WDC.

Fate is not a coincidence. :nod:




*source http://www.planetf1.com


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:44 am 
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Would love to see him scoring his 5th in a row race victory.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:10 am 
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He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:17 am 
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purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

:lol: I heard that noise too. It came from Vettel's KERS.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:31 am 
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purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

Soundly? They looked about equal to me.

It seems Webber had a heavier Chassis & Vettel had no KERS, I doubt the difference between them this weekend would be anything more than a tenth.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:34 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

Soundly? They looked about equal to me.

It seems Webber had a heavier Chassis & Vettel had no KERS, I doubt the difference between them this weekend would be anything more than a tenth.


You forgot to add another 3 tenths for Webber's personal weight / ballast, but hey who cares. Seb lost out today. And even he admitted there were no excuses.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:05 pm 
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purchville wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

Soundly? They looked about equal to me.

It seems Webber had a heavier Chassis & Vettel had no KERS, I doubt the difference between them this weekend would be anything more than a tenth.


You forgot to add another 3 tenths for Webber's personal weight / ballast, but hey who cares. Seb lost out today. And even he admitted there were no excuses.

Not quite sure how you work out these figures.

Vettel is about 65 Kilo & Webber about 75 Kilo

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/10/i ... -progress/
Quote:
Every additional 10kg of weight on an F1 car is worth on average 3/10ths of a second per lap over a season.


This does not mean Webber has a 3 tenth slower car however. Both Vettel & Webbers cars will be the same weight, its just that the 10K of weight which Webber is heavier by gets put onto Vettels car as additional Ballast.

This improves Vettel's centre of gravity in his car by lowering it but that doesn't amount to 3/10 & Webber will still have a fair amount of Ballast in his car, especially considering we know how light & Compact Newey likes to make his cars.

(Also from that James Allen piece)
Quote:
Boullier said. “It is true that 10kg on paper is roughly three tenths of a second, but the target is to at least be on the weight limit. And then, you don’t have this issue anymore.”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car
Quote:
The minimum weight permissible is 642 kg (1,415 lb) including the driver but not fuel. Cars are weighed with dry-weather tyres fitted.[2] However, all F1 cars weigh significantly less than this (some as little as 440 kg (970 lb))[citation needed] so teams add ballast to the cars to bring them up to the minimum legal weight


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:25 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
purchville wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

Soundly? They looked about equal to me.

It seems Webber had a heavier Chassis & Vettel had no KERS, I doubt the difference between them this weekend would be anything more than a tenth.


You forgot to add another 3 tenths for Webber's personal weight / ballast, but hey who cares. Seb lost out today. And even he admitted there were no excuses.

Not quite sure how you work out these figures.

Vettel is about 65 Kilo & Webber about 75 Kilo

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/10/i ... -progress/
Quote:
Every additional 10kg of weight on an F1 car is worth on average 3/10ths of a second per lap over a season.


This does not mean Webber has a 3 tenth slower car however. Both Vettel & Webbers cars will be the same weight, its just that the 10K of weight which Webber is heavier by gets put onto Vettels car as additional Ballast.

This improves Vettel's centre of gravity in his car by lowering it but that doesn't amount to 3/10 & Webber will still have a fair amount of Ballast in his car, especially considering we know how light & Compact Newey likes to make his cars.

(Also from that James Allen piece)
Quote:
Boullier said. “It is true that 10kg on paper is roughly three tenths of a second, but the target is to at least be on the weight limit. And then, you don’t have this issue anymore.”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_car
Quote:
The minimum weight permissible is 642 kg (1,415 lb) including the driver but not fuel. Cars are weighed with dry-weather tyres fitted.[2] However, all F1 cars weigh significantly less than this (some as little as 440 kg (970 lb))[citation needed] so teams add ballast to the cars to bring them up to the minimum legal weight


Interesting figures.

If a F1 car becomes 0.3 seconds slower by adding 10kg on top of the 642kg(minimum), where 10kg are just 1.56% of the total weight, the penalty of 10kg of less flexible(ballast) weight in Webber`s case, might just be the 1.56% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.00468 of a second.

Or maybe: Lets suppose that all the cars use in average 100kg of ballast (where 10kg equals to 10% of less flexible, distributable(ballast) weight), Webber's body-weight penalty might just be the 10% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.030 of a second.

Probably, neither of the above methods are correct, but as long as the total weight of the car it's still the same, Webber`s body-weight penalty seems quite irrelevant.
I always thought that Vettel had a Tenth of the second advantage over Webber, but more like half-a-tenth or less after today.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:31 pm 
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purchville wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
purchville wrote:
He got soundly beaten by his team-mate today. But it will probably be a different story tomorrow after turn 1.

Soundly? They looked about equal to me.

It seems Webber had a heavier Chassis & Vettel had no KERS, I doubt the difference between them this weekend would be anything more than a tenth.


You forgot to add another 3 tenths for Webber's personal weight / ballast, but hey who cares. Seb lost out today. And even he admitted there were no excuses.


Jeez, now playing the weight of the drivers. For goodness sake.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:43 pm 
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Migen wrote:
Interesting figures.

If a F1 car becomes 0.3 seconds slower by adding 10kg on top of the 642kg(minimum), where 10kg are just 1.56% of the total weight, the penalty of 10kg of less flexible(ballast) weight in Webber`s case, might just be the 1.56% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.00468 of a second.

Or maybe: Lets suppose that all the cars use in average 100kg of ballast (where 10kg equals to 10% of less flexible, distributable(ballast) weight), Webber's body-weight penalty might just be the 10% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.030 of a second.

Probably, neither of the above methods are correct, but as long as the total weight of the car it's still the same, Webber`s body-weight penalty seems quite irrelevant.
I always thought that Vettel had a Tenth of the second advantage over Webber, but more like half-a-tenth or less after today.

We also have to account for the fact Vettel has an extra 10K to play around with in any way he likes. This will be a bigger advantage on some circuits than others, when Vettel is setting up his car in practice his engineers can use that 10K to improve the balance of his car more so than Mark's engineers.

However I think on qualifying fuel which is essentially fumes it has very little impact, on race performance when the car is full of fuel Vettel gets the advantage of the extra ballast as he can improve the balance of the car on high fuel during Friday/Saturday practice. Giving him much more confidence in the car in the early stages of the race.

Id say in total it probably amounts to a tenth, maybe even two on some circuits in the early stages of the race, but in qualifying & latter stages of the race the ballast advantage is probably very small.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Migen wrote:
Interesting figures.

If a F1 car becomes 0.3 seconds slower by adding 10kg on top of the 642kg(minimum), where 10kg are just 1.56% of the total weight, the penalty of 10kg of less flexible(ballast) weight in Webber`s case, might just be the 1.56% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.00468 of a second.

Or maybe: Lets suppose that all the cars use in average 100kg of ballast (where 10kg equals to 10% of less flexible, distributable(ballast) weight), Webber's body-weight penalty might just be the 10% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.030 of a second.

Probably, neither of the above methods are correct, but as long as the total weight of the car it's still the same, Webber`s body-weight penalty seems quite irrelevant.
I always thought that Vettel had a Tenth of the second advantage over Webber, but more like half-a-tenth or less after today.

We also have to account for the fact Vettel has an extra 10K to play around with in any way he likes. This will be a bigger advantage on some circuits than others, when Vettel is setting up his car in practice his engineers can use that 10K to improve the balance of his car more so than Mark's engineers.

However I think on qualifying fuel which is essentially fumes it has very little impact, on race performance when the car is full of fuel Vettel gets the advantage of the extra ballast as he can improve the balance of the car on high fuel during Friday/Saturday practice. Giving him much more confidence in the car in the early stages of the race.

Id say in total it probably amounts to a tenth, maybe even two on some circuits in the early stages of the race, but in qualifying & latter stages of the race the ballast advantage is probably very small.

Unless I'm missing something obvious, any effect would be greater when the car is light in fuel. They use about 150kg of fuel each race, using (for mathematical ease) a 60 lap race, including out lap, warm up and cool down, that's 2.5kg average per lap. So for a three lap quali, and one litre for the scrutineers, that's about 8kg, plus the 642kg car and driver, so 650kg. 10kg from 650 is 1.54%. 642 + 150kg race fuel is 792. 10kg of that is 1.26%. 1.26 is 82% of 1.54, so whatever effect being able to move ballast around has in the race is proportionately 18% less effective.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:43 pm 
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bbobeckyj wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Migen wrote:
Interesting figures.

If a F1 car becomes 0.3 seconds slower by adding 10kg on top of the 642kg(minimum), where 10kg are just 1.56% of the total weight, the penalty of 10kg of less flexible(ballast) weight in Webber`s case, might just be the 1.56% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.00468 of a second.

Or maybe: Lets suppose that all the cars use in average 100kg of ballast (where 10kg equals to 10% of less flexible, distributable(ballast) weight), Webber's body-weight penalty might just be the 10% of the 0.3 seconds = 0.030 of a second.

Probably, neither of the above methods are correct, but as long as the total weight of the car it's still the same, Webber`s body-weight penalty seems quite irrelevant.
I always thought that Vettel had a Tenth of the second advantage over Webber, but more like half-a-tenth or less after today.

We also have to account for the fact Vettel has an extra 10K to play around with in any way he likes. This will be a bigger advantage on some circuits than others, when Vettel is setting up his car in practice his engineers can use that 10K to improve the balance of his car more so than Mark's engineers.

However I think on qualifying fuel which is essentially fumes it has very little impact, on race performance when the car is full of fuel Vettel gets the advantage of the extra ballast as he can improve the balance of the car on high fuel during Friday/Saturday practice. Giving him much more confidence in the car in the early stages of the race.

Id say in total it probably amounts to a tenth, maybe even two on some circuits in the early stages of the race, but in qualifying & latter stages of the race the ballast advantage is probably very small.

Unless I'm missing something obvious, any effect would be greater when the car is light in fuel. They use about 150kg of fuel each race, using (for mathematical ease) a 60 lap race, including out lap, warm up and cool down, that's 2.5kg average per lap. So for a three lap quali, and one litre for the scrutineers, that's about 8kg, plus the 642kg car and driver, so 650kg. 10kg from 650 is 1.54%. 642 + 150kg race fuel is 792. 10kg of that is 1.26%. 1.26 is 82% of 1.54, so whatever effect being able to move ballast around has in the race is proportionately 18% less effective.

Im not an F1 driver (obviously) so I could be wrong, but I imagined having the car well balanced would help when driving 30-40 laps on high fuel, rather than 1-2 lap runs on low fuel, as it would make it much easier for the driver to be consistent & make less errors as the car is balanced more so to his liking.

I think maybe im making the mistake of trying to imagine it from a drivers perspective, rather than looking at it from a mathematical perspective.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:26 pm 
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I understand, the effect may be greater over one quali lap than one early race lap, but because the race is longer the effect lasts longer and adds up to more.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:07 am 
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Another win in the bag. That second stint was mega, in the latter part of it being hardly any slower than Grosjean who was already on much fresher tyres. Very decisive overtake on Grosjean, not wasting time.

First time he gets a 5 win streak. Only Schumacher, Clark and Ascari have done better. Great job.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:17 am 
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Great thread for the great man.
5 win streak in this era is almost impossible to do, yet another milestone by this young genius who will surely go on to be the greatest ever.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:17 am 
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Another great day for Seb. Fourth title closer than ever. Mature drive, biting Grosjean at first opportunity. That's what the champs are made of.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:47 am 
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mds wrote:
First time he gets a 5 win streak. Only Schumacher, Clark and Ascari have done better. Great job.

This record surely shows his driving skill fits many track layouts. If we look at other active GP Winners' winning streaks as of October 2013:

Sebastian Vettel___5x1
Fernando Alonso___4x1
Jenson Button_____4x1
Kimi Raikkonen____2x3
Lewis Hamilton____2x2
Mark Webber______2x2
Felipe Massa______2x2


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