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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:45 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton AndErson's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

I agree, I don't see Schumi's reputation slipping at all. From the start there have been people who - for one reason or another - haven't considered him the greatest, and I don't see any more of them now than I ever have.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:13 am 
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Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton And Vettel's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

He certainly had 3 years of having the fastest car in his title years.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:07 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:

:thumbup: :nod:

Seb is probably going to have enough challenges to deal with from young Charles.

I think Leclerc is still unproven and many of his mistakes kind of fly under the radar.


Will have to wait till next season. Charles will certainly be in the hot seat and will have to prove what he can do. He might start making mistakes left and right, but might also start giving Seb fits like Lewis once did to the reigning champion Fernando. Hotshot Formula 1 youngsters have upset the applecart before and will probably do it again. Will young Charles sizzle or fizzle???

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:53 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton And Vettel's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

He certainly had 3 years of having the fastest car in his title years.


Did he? I am not sure of that. I won't argue 2 years, but three? Overwhelmingly good car comes across as "dominate" as I read it...not sure that applies to three of Vettel's WDCs.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:25 am 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton And Vettel's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

He certainly had 3 years of having the fastest car in his title years.


Did he? I am not sure of that. I won't argue 2 years, but three? Overwhelmingly good car comes across as "dominate" as I read it...not sure that applies to three of Vettel's WDCs.


2010,11 and 13 he enjoyed a sizeable pace advantage. 2010 only differs from the other two in types of season we saw because he couldn't put Mark away as comfortably and shared more wins with his team mate and he also had more errors and reliability issues than '11 and '13 which opened the door for Alonso but he had a similar pace advantage over the next best car as he had in those years so I think 3 is about right.

I think Newey called it his best car or the car with the most d/f he'd designed (2010), it was something like that anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton And Vettel's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

He certainly had 3 years of having the fastest car in his title years.


Did he? I am not sure of that. I won't argue 2 years, but three? Overwhelmingly good car comes across as "dominate" as I read it...not sure that applies to three of Vettel's WDCs.


2010,11 and 13 he enjoyed a sizeable pace advantage. 2010 only differs from the other two in types of season we saw because he couldn't put Mark away as comfortably and shared more wins with his team mate and he also had more errors and reliability issues than '11 and '13 which opened the door for Alonso but he had a similar pace advantage over the next best car as he had in those years so I think 3 is about right.

I think Newey called it his best car or the car with the most d/f he'd designed (2010), it was something like that anyway.

Yes indeed, I guess what we are looking at here is a measure of what kind of car advantage is acceptable?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:43 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Yes indeed, I guess what we are looking at here is a measure of what kind of car advantage is acceptable?

About 90% of the WDCs won with a car advantage of some sort, so I'd hope that just a slight advantage is acceptable. If you're going to devalue the WDC of any driver who won with the best car, you might as well just say the WDC is worthless and focus only on the teams.

Which there's a good argument for, but I don't think I'll be seeing most people accepting that anytime soon. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:14 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:

:thumbup: :nod:

Seb is probably going to have enough challenges to deal with from young Charles.

I think Leclerc is still unproven and many of his mistakes kind of fly under the radar.


Will have to wait till next season. Charles will certainly be in the hot seat and will have to prove what he can do. He might start making mistakes left and right, but might also start giving Seb fits like Lewis once did to the reigning champion Fernando. Hotshot Formula 1 youngsters have upset the applecart before and will probably do it again. Will young Charles sizzle or fizzle???


There is no pressure on Leclerc. He is already talking about how he wants to learn from Seb, being a great champion etc... If he has a bad year, that will be attributed to the fact he is a second year driver and in his first year in a top car. He has nothing to lose. And I do expect him to be behind Seb the first year.
It's amazing how people seem to think Seb is useless now. He has had a poor year, entirely because of mistakes, not speed. He still has plenty of that. He is also well nestled at Ferrari, has shown multiple times how fast he can be this year alone. His main rival has once used the term "rapid" to describe him. Forgive me if I just don't see Leclerc coming in and knocking him off his perch straight away. And I know Leclerc is fast, but so is Seb. I'm not even a Vettel fan but it is getting a little upsetting how some people seem to forget so quickly.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:05 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:

:thumbup: :nod:

Seb is probably going to have enough challenges to deal with from young Charles.

I think Leclerc is still unproven and many of his mistakes kind of fly under the radar.


Will have to wait till next season. Charles will certainly be in the hot seat and will have to prove what he can do. He might start making mistakes left and right, but might also start giving Seb fits like Lewis once did to the reigning champion Fernando. Hotshot Formula 1 youngsters have upset the applecart before and will probably do it again. Will young Charles sizzle or fizzle???


There is no pressure on Leclerc. He is already talking about how he wants to learn from Seb, being a great champion etc... If he has a bad year, that will be attributed to the fact he is a second year driver and in his first year in a top car. He has nothing to lose. And I do expect him to be behind Seb the first year.
It's amazing how people seem to think Seb is useless now. He has had a poor year, entirely because of mistakes, not speed. He still has plenty of that. He is also well nestled at Ferrari, has shown multiple times how fast he can be this year alone. His main rival has once used the term "rapid" to describe him. Forgive me if I just don't see Leclerc coming in and knocking him off his perch straight away. And I know Leclerc is fast, but so is Seb. I'm not even a Vettel fan but it is getting a little upsetting how some people seem to forget so quickly.

No pressure on Leclerc I'm not so sure?

He's only on a 1 year contract and he himself has said he could be dropped if he doesn't perform.

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:47 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
No pressure on Leclerc I'm not so sure?

He's only on a 1 year contract and he himself has said he could be dropped if he doesn't perform.


No pressure? Rubbish. If a rookie/young driver doesn't perform? there are one of two things that happen.. 1) they lose their seat and leave F1 due to no other interest. 2) they lose their seat but another lower team picks them up.

Shall we talk about current/previous team mates to Fernando and Lewis? Where are they? They didn't get snapped up by the big boys and some lost not only their seat but their spot on F1.

If Leclerc doesn't perform, he will lose his seat in the Ferrari and instantly is given 50/50 chance of keeping his spot in F1.

Fernando has a team mate that has lost his seat (VAN). Lewis had a team mate that is no longer in F1 (KOV). Button had a team mate that was demoted to the lower teams and will be lucky for a top seat again (PER) - even with his solid performances.

If you don't perform in these top teams you lose your seat and will be very lucky to get another race winning car again. If Leclarc doesn't perform well enough against Vettel.. his race winning F1 career is gone. Still it will be interesting to see who performs out of them two!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No pressure on Leclerc I'm not so sure?

He's only on a 1 year contract and he himself has said he could be dropped if he doesn't perform.


No pressure? Rubbish. If a rookie/young driver doesn't perform? there are one of two things that happen.. 1) they lose their seat and leave F1 due to no other interest. 2) they lose their seat but another lower team picks them up.

Shall we talk about current/previous team mates to Fernando and Lewis? Where are they? They didn't get snapped up by the big boys and some lost not only their seat but their spot on F1.

If Leclerc doesn't perform, he will lose his seat in the Ferrari and instantly is given 50/50 chance of keeping his spot in F1.

Fernando has a team mate that has lost his seat (VAN). Lewis had a team mate that is no longer in F1 (KOV). Button had a team mate that was demoted to the lower teams and will be lucky for a top seat again (PER) - even with his solid performances.

If you don't perform in these top teams you lose your seat and will be very lucky to get another race winning car again. If Leclarc doesn't perform well enough against Vettel.. his race winning F1 career is gone. Still it will be interesting to see who performs out of them two!

I think you misunderstood Poker's message. Look for the one he was replying to


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:08 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No pressure on Leclerc I'm not so sure?

He's only on a 1 year contract and he himself has said he could be dropped if he doesn't perform.


No pressure? Rubbish. If a rookie/young driver doesn't perform? there are one of two things that happen.. 1) they lose their seat and leave F1 due to no other interest. 2) they lose their seat but another lower team picks them up.

Shall we talk about current/previous team mates to Fernando and Lewis? Where are they? They didn't get snapped up by the big boys and some lost not only their seat but their spot on F1.

If Leclerc doesn't perform, he will lose his seat in the Ferrari and instantly is given 50/50 chance of keeping his spot in F1.

Fernando has a team mate that has lost his seat (VAN). Lewis had a team mate that is no longer in F1 (KOV). Button had a team mate that was demoted to the lower teams and will be lucky for a top seat again (PER) - even with his solid performances.

If you don't perform in these top teams you lose your seat and will be very lucky to get another race winning car again. If Leclarc doesn't perform well enough against Vettel.. his race winning F1 career is gone. Still it will be interesting to see who performs out of them two!


This is Ferrari who let Raikonnen stay after 5 mediocre seasons while he was no match for Seb or Alonso.
To use another team example, Vandoorne has been getting beaten to a pulp by Alonso and it took them two years to sack him.
Leclerc is after all, Ferrari's project. They are not going to fire him after one poor year against Vettel. It is rubbish to believe that they will actually. That is why I don't believe there is much pressure on him to perform next year, no matter what he says. He will put the pressure on himself of course, but next year as far as Ferrari is concerned it is a learning year for him. It would be unreasonable for them to expect otherwise. Now if it carries on in 2020, then yeah I can see them dropping him, but not before that. No way.

And not many expect Leclerc to be way off the pace of Seb, but I just don't think he is going to beat Seb either next year. We shall see I guess.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:27 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No pressure on Leclerc I'm not so sure?

He's only on a 1 year contract and he himself has said he could be dropped if he doesn't perform.


No pressure? Rubbish. If a rookie/young driver doesn't perform? there are one of two things that happen.. 1) they lose their seat and leave F1 due to no other interest. 2) they lose their seat but another lower team picks them up.

Shall we talk about current/previous team mates to Fernando and Lewis? Where are they? They didn't get snapped up by the big boys and some lost not only their seat but their spot on F1.

If Leclerc doesn't perform, he will lose his seat in the Ferrari and instantly is given 50/50 chance of keeping his spot in F1.

Fernando has a team mate that has lost his seat (VAN). Lewis had a team mate that is no longer in F1 (KOV). Button had a team mate that was demoted to the lower teams and will be lucky for a top seat again (PER) - even with his solid performances.

If you don't perform in these top teams you lose your seat and will be very lucky to get another race winning car again. If Leclarc doesn't perform well enough against Vettel.. his race winning F1 career is gone. Still it will be interesting to see who performs out of them two!


This is Ferrari who let Raikonnen stay after 5 mediocre seasons while he was no match for Seb or Alonso.
To use another team example, Vandoorne has been getting beaten to a pulp by Alonso and it took them two years to sack him.
Leclerc is after all, Ferrari's project. They are not going to fire him after one poor year against Vettel. It is rubbish to believe that they will actually. That is why I don't believe there is much pressure on him to perform next year, no matter what he says. He will put the pressure on himself of course, but next year as far as Ferrari is concerned it is a learning year for him. It would be unreasonable for them to expect otherwise. Now if it carries on in 2020, then yeah I can see them dropping him, but not before that. No way.

And not many expect Leclerc to be way off the pace of Seb, but I just don't think he is going to beat Seb either next year. We shall see I guess.


So after two years of a mediocre performance? they'd still keep him? Little pressure at all? Again - rubbish.

He is joining Ferrari that expect results. Only way Ferrari keep their driver lineup is if a number 1 wins and the number 2 does what is necessary. Alonso/Van are a perform example - 2 years and gone for the rookie. Career in F1 in tatters.

We could list a lot of driver rookies/first chancers that joined top teams and magically vanished. How many on that current grid have previously raced for top teams and .. well lets face it won't be given another chance.. because their performances were not good enough (1-2 seasons). Perez? Magnussen? Fisichella? Anyone remember Luca? his F1 career started and ended in five minutes.

The only way they survive in a top team is when the likes of Ferrari are happy for mediocre performances. Once they have lost their seat.. it is extremely rare and lucky for them to be given another chance or even keep their F1 race seat.

Sorry but the pressure in F1 alone is real. The pressure of joining a top team is even bigger. The pressure for a rookie to perform in that first season exists and after a possible mediocre performance.. the pressure still grows in the 2nd season. If Leclarc doesn't perform at Ferrari - his title hopes will most likely be gone forever.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:32 am 
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I don't think Vettel's performances have been mediocre - just eratic - he's had some great drives and at the same time silly errors - sometimes followed by great recoveries

But I do think that another equal driver would have won in this year's (and possibly last year's) Ferrari - Dan for one - Hamilton and Alonso probably as well

it's about good driving with consistency and good judgement - all drivers at the limit will make mistakes from time to time - that's normal and acceptable - it's about how many mistakes and when are they made - and that's where Vettel is falling down IMO - Ferrari could do better

Alonso would have loved to have had the 2017-18 cars


Last edited by F1Oz on Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:34 am 
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I go so far as to say that unless Ferrari get a substantially superior car - they will NEVER win with Vettel the number 1 driver


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:34 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Another year like this one will cement peoples' opinion that he is/was not a "great" - it will confirm that his successes were "only down to having an overwhelmingly good car". Think of Button and his one world championship in a great car, and how Schumaker's reputation is slipping nowadays (both to the cars' greatness and his tactics).

IF he wants to keep a lasting reputation he needs a good season next year, cut out the mistakes and childish behaviour.

.

Seriously???

Where is Schumi's reputation slipping due to "cars greatness". If that is the case Hamilton And Vettel's reputations are in trouble too! And Schumi's reputation is slipping nowadays dije to "his tactics"? Has something new been learned about Schumi's "tactics" in the last several years to cause this nowadays slip in reputation?

BTW, Vettel didn't have four years of having "an overwhelmingly good car".

He certainly had 3 years of having the fastest car in his title years.


Did he? I am not sure of that. I won't argue 2 years, but three? Overwhelmingly good car comes across as "dominate" as I read it...not sure that applies to three of Vettel's WDCs.


2010,11 and 13 he enjoyed a sizeable pace advantage. 2010 only differs from the other two in types of season we saw because he couldn't put Mark away as comfortably and shared more wins with his team mate and he also had more errors and reliability issues than '11 and '13 which opened the door for Alonso but he had a similar pace advantage over the next best car as he had in those years so I think 3 is about right.

I think Newey called it his best car or the car with the most d/f he'd designed (2010), it was something like that anyway.


Yes, speaking after the 2012 season. Newey rated the 2010 Red Bull as the best of the bunch. I am not sure if he changed his mind after 2013.

It won 9/19 races.
15/19 poles.

It lost 3 wins due to mechanical issue and a further 2-3 wins from errors/collisions. You could argue it wasn't great because of mechanical issues but Webber actually went the entire season bullet proof (the reason he challanged for the title in the first place). Vettel had 2 mechanical DNFs, Alonso 1, Hamilton 2 and Button 1 so it was pretty even all in all.

It also put in some ridiculous qualifying performances. Such as being 1.3 seconds quicker than anything else in Spain. 1.1 seconds quicker in Hungary. 0.8 in Silverstone etc etc


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:47 pm 
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F1Oz wrote:
I don't think Vettel's performances have been mediocre - just eratic - he's had some great drives and at the same time silly errors - sometimes followed by great recoveries

But I do think that another equal driver would have won in this year's (and possibly last year's) Ferrari - Dan for one - Hamilton and Alonso probably as well

it's about good driving with consistency and good judgement - all drivers at the limit will make mistakes from time to time - that's normal and acceptable - it's about how many mistakes and when are they made - and that's where Vettel is falling down IMO - Ferrari could do better

Alonso would have loved to have had the 2017-18 cars

Exactly Vettel is fast but he's just shown poor judgement too many times.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:33 am 
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I will say this in favour of Sebastian. The way he congratulated Lewis and Merc is brilliant. He deserves applause for this.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
I will say this in favour of Sebastian. The way he congratulated Lewis and Merc is brilliant. He deserves applause for this.

Yeah Vettel is a good guy. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

Aren´t you doing the same?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

Aren´t you doing the same?

Saying that Ferrari were sandbagging and could have gone quicker if they had wanted to?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
I will say this in favour of Sebastian. The way he congratulated Lewis and Merc is brilliant. He deserves applause for this.

Yeah Vettel is a good guy. :thumbup:


And it never hurts to maintain a plan B.
;)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

Aren´t you doing the same?

Saying that Ferrari were sandbagging and could have gone quicker if they had wanted to?

Spreading the Mercedes inferior car opinion.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Posts: 319
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:11 pm 
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Posts: 28426
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

Aren´t you doing the same?

Saying that Ferrari were sandbagging and could have gone quicker if they had wanted to?

Spreading the Mercedes inferior car opinion.

Whilst saying that Mercedes were quicker but chose to sandbag for the good of the sport is given a total pass by you?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Posts: 28426
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?

There is a thread that discusses all of that and when did fastest laps start to have any meaning in the past few years?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:31 pm
Posts: 350
Location: Chicago
pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?

There is a thread that discusses all of that and when did fastest laps start to have any meaning in the past few years?


Well it wasn’t me who brought up the car comparison in this thread was it?
We can take the conversation to the other thread.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Posts: 1648
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


So one car can take pole both in the dry and wet and the other can only in the dry but the latter is the faster car got it.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Posts: 319
Rockie wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


So one car can take pole both in the dry and wet and the other can only in the dry but the latter is the faster car got it.



You talk about dry and wet weather pace like they are each an equal factor over the course of a season. Rain effects a small percentage of F1 races. Ferrari were quicker in Hungary and Belgium, but the rain suited Hamilton and Merc better. It doesn't change the fact that in normal racing conditions, Ferrari were stronger.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Posts: 5556
Rockie wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


So one car can take pole both in the dry and wet and the other can only in the dry but the latter is the faster car got it.

The cars are not the factor that changes in the dry. It's the drivers that make the difference there.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


It's not total nonsense. I don't understand how you can watch F1 this season or for the past 5 years and not see that Mercedes has the superior car! It's crazy talk to suggest otherwise. There was a "point" this season, for a very brief time that it appeared as though Ferrari had caught up. The teams work on the car throughout the year and it didn't take long for Mercedes to re-assert their superiority. I'm not sure what fan you are but just being neutral, Mercedes had the best package for the greater amount of weekends thus far and that's why they've got the WDC and will soon wrap up the WCC. How is that even a discussion? The standings tell the story.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Posts: 28426
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?

There is a thread that discusses all of that and when did fastest laps start to have any meaning in the past few years?


Well it wasn’t me who brought up the car comparison in this thread was it?
We can take the conversation to the other thread.

Me neither, it was just a brief response to what a poster said then others chimed in.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Posts: 28426
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


It's not total nonsense. I don't understand how you can watch F1 this season or for the past 5 years and not see that Mercedes has the superior car! It's crazy talk to suggest otherwise. There was a "point" this season, for a very brief time that it appeared as though Ferrari had caught up. The teams work on the car throughout the year and it didn't take long for Mercedes to re-assert their superiority. I'm not sure what fan you are but just being neutral, Mercedes had the best package for the greater amount of weekends thus far and that's why they've got the WDC and will soon wrap up the WCC. How is that even a discussion? The standings tell the story.

...as opposed to Vettel's numerous mistakes?

There has been a thread for this all season long.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:19 pm
Posts: 319
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


It's not total nonsense. I don't understand how you can watch F1 this season or for the past 5 years and not see that Mercedes has the superior car! It's crazy talk to suggest otherwise. There was a "point" this season, for a very brief time that it appeared as though Ferrari had caught up. The teams work on the car throughout the year and it didn't take long for Mercedes to re-assert their superiority. I'm not sure what fan you are but just being neutral, Mercedes had the best package for the greater amount of weekends thus far and that's why they've got the WDC and will soon wrap up the WCC. How is that even a discussion? The standings tell the story.


It isn't total nonsense clearly, it is widely accepted as fact amongst many people who get paid to analyse F1 for a living, I've yet to see a serious pundit suggest that the Merc package has been clearly better this season. They surely aren't all totally biased. I suspect you are pushing an agenda though.

In another thread you essentially claimed that Mercedes chose to allow the championship to get this far so you'll forgive me for not taking your opinions too seriously.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28426
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


It's not total nonsense. I don't understand how you can watch F1 this season or for the past 5 years and not see that Mercedes has the superior car! It's crazy talk to suggest otherwise. There was a "point" this season, for a very brief time that it appeared as though Ferrari had caught up. The teams work on the car throughout the year and it didn't take long for Mercedes to re-assert their superiority. I'm not sure what fan you are but just being neutral, Mercedes had the best package for the greater amount of weekends thus far and that's why they've got the WDC and will soon wrap up the WCC. How is that even a discussion? The standings tell the story.


It isn't total nonsense clearly, it is widely accepted as fact amongst many people who get paid to analyse F1 for a living, I've yet to see a serious pundit suggest that the Merc package has been clearly better this season. They surely aren't all totally biased. I suspect you are pushing an agenda though.

In another thread you essentially claimed that Mercedes chose to allow the championship to get this far so you'll forgive me for not taking your opinions too seriously.

The last part which I pointed out and was surprised by my post itself being taken to task.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:00 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.

Aren´t you doing the same?

Saying that Ferrari were sandbagging and could have gone quicker if they had wanted to?

Spreading the Mercedes inferior car opinion.

Whilst saying that Mercedes were quicker but chose to sandbag for the good of the sport is given a total pass by you?

Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

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Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:44 am 
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Bentrovato wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
ohwell wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bentrovato wrote:
Vettel is the prototypical German. Give him pole position and he'll carefully guide these tyre conservation machines (F1 race cars) across the line first more times than not. Vettel's strength isn't challenging a better car in inferior equipment and that's probably why we saw more mistakes from him this year.

Two things I agree with that have already been said:
1. Vettel made far too many poor judgements this season but it didn't matter because ...
2. Ferrari was no match for the Mercedes anyway

You seem to be spreading the Ferrari inferior car opinion among different threads which includes the Mercedes sandbagging opinion.


Depending on how you look at it..one could say Mercedes was faster over the course of the season.
Ferrari only managed 6 pole positions this year while merc won 9.
Fastest laps Ferrari 3 merc 9. What stat do you have other than anecdotal evidence that says Ferrari was “generally faster” than merc this year ?


Fastest laps are almost meaningless in this day and age, Bottas got the most recent one when in a race he was lapped in.

Pole positions are perhaps a better metric, but again that doesn't always tell the entire story either, in Hungary and Belgium Merc got poles in wet qualifying sessions that surely would have been Vettel's in the dry. In that scenario we'd be talking an 8-7 pole lead for Ferrari.

Sometimes a driver can just pull out a stonking lap. Singapore for example, where Vettel himself said that Ferrari should have been on pole.

Obviously we can never know for sure which car was the fastest in all of these race weekends, but I think it is very clear that at worst the Ferrari was quick enough to give them a good opportunity at the title. Talk of either car veing castly superior to the other has to be total nonsense.


It's not total nonsense. I don't understand how you can watch F1 this season or for the past 5 years and not see that Mercedes has the superior car! It's crazy talk to suggest otherwise. There was a "point" this season, for a very brief time that it appeared as though Ferrari had caught up. The teams work on the car throughout the year and it didn't take long for Mercedes to re-assert their superiority. I'm not sure what fan you are but just being neutral, Mercedes had the best package for the greater amount of weekends thus far and that's why they've got the WDC and will soon wrap up the WCC. How is that even a discussion? The standings tell the story.


You must be on a wind up because your post is complete rubbish.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


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