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Which driver won each intra-team battle in France?
Poll ended at Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:07 pm
Hamilton 11%  11%  [ 39 ]
Bottas 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Vettel 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Leclerc 11%  11%  [ 38 ]
Verstappen 11%  11%  [ 40 ]
Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Ricciardo 6%  6%  [ 22 ]
Hulkenberg 3%  3%  [ 12 ]
Magnussen 6%  6%  [ 22 ]
Grosjean 3%  3%  [ 10 ]
Sainz 6%  6%  [ 22 ]
Norris 3%  3%  [ 12 ]
Perez 8%  8%  [ 30 ]
Stroll 1%  1%  [ 4 ]
Raikkonen 11%  11%  [ 38 ]
Giovinazzi 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Albon 3%  3%  [ 9 ]
Kvyat 8%  8%  [ 27 ]
Russell 7%  7%  [ 24 ]
Kubica 3%  3%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 360
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Once everyone has woken up from today's race, here are the results from the Canada TMW vote:

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Mercedes
TMW race winner: Hamilton (98%)
Hamilton 5 - 2 Bottas
Hamilton 65% - 35% Bottas

Not much doubt about this result: Lewis Hamilton wins the race while Valtteri Bottas reverts back to Bottas 1.0. Not sure if the 1.0 refers to which version of Valtteri was in Canada or the gap per lap in pace between the two Mercedes drivers, or simply to the laughable 1 vote he received. Either way there can be no question about which driver deserved the TMW vote. It's now three in a row for Lewis, as well as five of the last six races. What had been a strong start to the year - in which Bottas was effectively making Mercedes' decision about his future for them - is just slowly beginning to look a little less definite.

Ferrari
TMW race winner: Vettel (77%)
Vettel 6 - 1 Leclerc
Vettel 61% - 39% Leclerc

A nice, clear victory for Sebastian Vettel ensures there will be no metaphorical moving of signage in the PF1 TMW results thread! A great lap on Saturday followed up by a strong - with the exception of one moment - drive on Sunday was enough to get Seb over 3/4 of the vote. Votes against him will no doubt have come as a result of that one moment, another in a catalogue of mistakes that he just can't seem to get away from. The net result? Seb now has a commanding 6-1 TMW lead, as well as a healthy 61% of the vote. What was expected to be the closest of the individual TMW votes has, so far at least, been one of the competitive.

Red Bull
TMW race winner: Verstappen (95%)
Verstappen 7 - 0 Gasly
Verstappen 95% - 5% Gasly

In what is going to come as a huge shock to literally nobody, Max Verstappen has made it 7-0 with another dominant TMW victory. Even with Kevin Magnussen doing his best to help Pierre Gasly by well and truly ruining Max's qualifying session, and Red Bull giving Pierre three bites of the cherry in Q3, it still didn't prevent Max from being well ahead of Pierre when the chequered flag fell on Sunday afternoon.

Renault
TMW race winner: Ricciardo (79%)
Ricciardo 5 - 2 Hulkenberg
Ricciardo 51% - 49% Hulkenberg

Undoubtedly Renault's best weekend of the season so far, and undoubtedly Daniel Ricciardo's best moments since his move to Enstone. Putting the yellow car on the second row was a timely reminder to those who might be going cold on his ability that, with the right package beneath him, he can still turn heads. It was inevitable he would go a little backwards in the race. As I myself mused when discussing my own votes, Nico Hulkenberg was a little unlucky in that he was asked to do a longer stint on the softer tyre, made it work, but was then prevented from taking advantage of the extra tyre life at the end of the race because Renault wanted to bring the cars home. It's a decision many of us should understand given their struggles so far in 2019 - imagine how ridiculous they would've looked if Nico had tried to overtake Daniel and both cars had ended up retiring - but one that the German was on the wrong side of.

Haas
TMW race winner: Grosjean (84%)
Magnussen 5 - 2 Grosjean
Magnussen 67% - 33% Grosjean

Not a huge surprise with this result. Kevin Magnussen's shunt at the end of Q2 may or may not have prevented Romain Grosjean from reaching Q3, but such an obvious mistake meant only a remarkable drive on Sunday was going to win back the hearts of the TMW voters. You could argue that Magnussen's drive on Sunday was remarkable, but only for the wrong reasons. Coming on the radio and complaining about how bad the car is after you've put it in the wall and forced the team to work overnight to get you a car ready to start the race? Yeah, probably not the wisest thing to do. Short-term, it hands RoGro his second TMW win of the season, despite a rather forgettable race for the Frenchman. The question is whether it does any long-term damage to Magnussen's standing at the team, if not with the team bosses then at least with those who worked on his car.

McLaren
TMW race winner: Sainz (55%)
Sainz 5 - 2 Norris
Sainz 46% - 54% Norris

The closest TMW battle in Canada? That would be the McLaren pair, who were within 5% of giving us our first tie of 2019. Carlos Sainz just edges it to take his fifth successive TMW win of 2019, keeping pace with Daniel Ricciardio as a driver who left the Red Bull family, lost the first two TMW votes of 2019, and then responded with five of his own. It was an unfortunate afternoon for Lando Norris who was looking particularly punchy in the opening stages of the race, right up until his McLaren decided fire was a good choice. And while he may be 5-2 down, he still holds an advantage in terms of the percentage of votes received. More importantly for the Brit, there have yet to been any murmurings about his performances not being good enough, or suggestions that his seat is at risk, suggesting McLaren are happy enough with his performances to this point.

Racing Point
TMW race winner: Stroll (98%)
Perez 5 - 2 Stroll
Perez 57% - 43% Stroll

For all the criticism Lance Stroll receives, no one could suggest that he hasn't shown glimpses that he can hang in F1. That has been the case in 2019 where he once again executed the strategy given to him by Racing Point in exemplary fashion, recovering from another Q1 exit to finish in the points. Sergio Perez had a nothing weekend, barely outqualifying Lance despite Stroll having to revert back to the older spec Mercedes engine, then doing little to change his fortunes in the race.

Alfa-Romeo
TMW race winner: Giovinazzi (59%)
Raikkonen 6 - 1 Giovinazzi
Raikkonen 87% - 13% Giovinazzi

Do not adjust your screens - Antonio Giovinazzi has a TMW win! In truth, it was as much down to Kimi having a weekend where any sort of pace seemed to elude him (his car "seems to be lacking in lap times", to use the technical description) as it was Giovinazzi having a little more pace of his own. However, considering the results the pair have had up to this point, finishing ahead of his experienced teammate in both qualifying and the race is a huge step for Antonio. Now it's just up to him to demonstrate he can do it on weekends where Kimi isn't noticeably off the pace.

Toro Rosso
TMW race winner: Kvyat (83%)
Albon 3 - 4 Kvyat
Albon 37% - 63% Kvyat

The Torpedo continues to enjoy his return to F1, scoring his third successive TMW victory courtesy of a third successive points finish, taking back the overall lead for the first time since Australia in the process. It's actually the first time he's achieved that in his various stints with Toro Rosso, while for Alex Albon Canada represented his first DNF in his short F1 career. And despite the percentages not split as evenly as a couple of the other teams, the Red Bull Red Bull Honda TMW is the only one where one driver hasn't already had five TMW wins suggesting it may be the most competitive on the grid in 2019.

Williams
TMW race winner: Russell (95%)
Russell 7 - 0 Kubica
Russell 95% - 5% Kubica

After a more even (relatively speaking, anyway) split for the Monaco TMW vote, we're back to our regularly scheduled programming in Canada as George Russell puts a stomping on Robert Kubica. 36 votes to two (shout out to our Polish friends, I guess) allows the reigning Formula 2 Champion to join Max Verstappen in claiming a seventh straight TMW win. At the current rate, both George and Max will have sewn up the TMW battles by the time the Hungarian TMW vote opens.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:11 pm 
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For whatever it's worth - perhaps not a lot given most teams changed at least one driver - here's how each team's scores after seven races compare with this point in 2018:

Mercedes
2018: Hamilton 4-3 Bottas (52% - 48%)
2019: Hamilton 5-2 Bottas (65% - 35%)
So according to the TMW vote, Lewis is actually further ahead of Bottas than he was after seven races in 2018, despite the general belief(?) being that Bottas has been better in 2019.

Ferrari
2018: Vettel 6-1 Raikkonen (71% - 29%)
2019: Vettel 6-1 Leclerc (61% - 39%)
The only difference here is that Charles has pulled in slightly more of the vote than Kimi had. Seb still has a 6-1 lead.

Red Bull:
2018: Ricciardo 5-2 Verstappen (74% - 26%)
2019: Verstappen 7-0 Gasly (95% - 5%)
A reminder that it is so easy to forget just how wretched Max's start to the season was last year. Daniel would earn just two further TMW wins in 2018. Meanwhile Gasly himself was 5-2 up on Brendon Hartley at this stage in 2018.

Renault:
2018: Hulkenberg 5-2 Sainz (61% - 39%)
2019: Ricciardo 5-2 Hulkenberg (51% - 49%)
Daniel Ricciardo has the same lead over Nico Hulkenberg that Nico Hulkenberg had over Carlos Sainz, albeit with 10% less of the vote. I'd be curious to see if people felt this was representative, that Ricciardo was about as far ahead of Hulkenberg as Hulk is ahead of Sainz. I'd imagine the feeling would be that while it might be true of Ricciardo and Hulkenberg, it wouldn't be true of Hulk and Sainz.

Racing Point:
2018: Ocon 4-3 Perez (44% - 56%)
2019: Perez 5-2 Stroll (57% - 43%)
Perez's percentages are almost identical, the difference this year is he's ahead in terms of TMW wins. Lance Stroll was 5-2 up on Sirotkin after seven races in 2018.

Haas:
2018: Magnussen 6-1 Grosjean (82% - 18%)
2019: Magnussen 5-2 Grosjean (67% - 33%)
The takeaway from this appears to be that 2019 isn't as bad as 2018 for Romain, which seems like a fair assessment.

And onto the teams where both drivers changed...

Alfa:
2018: Leclerc 4-3 Ericsson (64% - 36%)
2019: Raikkonen 6-1 Giovinazzi (87% - 13%)
As highly rated as Leclerc is, and as much as he came into F1 on a wave of hype, it wasn't too shocking to see him needing a couple of races to get up-to-speed. It meant his lead after seven races was only minimal. Reversing that, it isn't surprising to see that another rookie, who isn't as highly touted, is having a much harder time against a much more talented teammate.

McLaren:
2018: Alonso 7-0 Vandoorne (97% - 3%)
2019: Sainz 5-2 Norris (46% - 54%)
Somewhat irrelevant with it being an all-new line up. It was always going to be closer than Alonso/Vandoorne, so that's no surprise, and Sainz having a better head-to-head with a rookie than he did Nico Hulkenberg is also no huge shock.

Toro Rosso:
2018: Gasly 5-2 Hartley (69% - 31%)
2019: Kvyat 4-3 Albon (63% - 37%)
Not much to look at here given it's two different drivers. It suggests this year's Toro Rosso pairing is at least a little more competitive, though. Ironically, could that be something that hurts both if Red Bull were to start thinking about replacing Gasly mid-season, that neither Toro Rosso driver appears to be head and shoulders above the other?

Williams:
2018: Stroll 5-2 Sirotkin (72% - 28%)
2019: Russell 7-0 Kubica (95% - 5%)
A nothing comparison considering Williams switched both drivers and Russell is destroying Kubica.

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Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:07 pm 
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Hulkenberg and Kubica seem to be unpopular votes for some reason when both finished ahead of their team mates. In my mind if you screw up your own race by your own mistake then you don't deserve the teammate wars vote.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:50 pm 
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j man wrote:
Hulkenberg and Kubica seem to be unpopular votes for some reason when both finished ahead of their team mates. In my mind if you screw up your own race by your own mistake then you don't deserve the teammate wars vote.


I don't disagree. Although Kuboca should have been a fair bit further ahead.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:40 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Hulkenberg and Kubica seem to be unpopular votes for some reason when both finished ahead of their team mates. In my mind if you screw up your own race by your own mistake then you don't deserve the teammate wars vote.


I don't disagree. Although Kuboca should have been a fair bit further ahead.


Hard to vote for Kubica though!

IIRC this is the first qualifying or race session this year where George Russell has not beat Kubica.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:40 pm 
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Not sure which thread to post this in but I'm choosing this one.


At this point, I believe that even if Bottas outqualified Hamilton for the rest of the season, Hamilton would still finish ahead at least 50% of the time. I think for the most part Hamilton will simply crush Bottas in pace and craft in races.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:25 am 
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Invade wrote:
Not sure which thread to post this in but I'm choosing this one.


At this point, I believe that even if Bottas outqualified Hamilton for the rest of the season, Hamilton would still finish ahead at least 50% of the time. I think for the most part Hamilton will simply crush Bottas in pace and craft in races.

It depends on how easy it is to pass though, that's why we hear first into turn 1 wins the race, if passing was a lot easier then I would agree with you.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Hulkenberg and Kubica seem to be unpopular votes for some reason when both finished ahead of their team mates. In my mind if you screw up your own race by your own mistake then you don't deserve the teammate wars vote.


I don't disagree. Although Kuboca should have been a fair bit further ahead.


Hard to vote for Kubica though!

IIRC this is the first qualifying or race session this year where George Russell has not beat Kubica.

Wasn't Russel's race compromised when he tried to pass Kubica, was forced wide and damaged his wing on a (polystyrene???) marker? I was under the impression that, otherwise, he had better race pace than his team-mate.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:09 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
For whatever it's worth - perhaps not a lot given most teams changed at least one driver - here's how each team's scores after seven races compare with this point in 2018:

Mercedes
2018: Hamilton 4-3 Bottas (52% - 48%)
2019: Hamilton 5-2 Bottas (65% - 35%)
So according to the TMW vote, Lewis is actually further ahead of Bottas than he was after seven races in 2018, despite the general belief(?) being that Bottas has been better in 2019.

I don't think we should base team mate wars to give an idea on which season has been better for the driver. This is only looking at what this season is like against their team mate. I personally think they both have had a better start than last year. If you think about it, last year, Hamilton was quite some way off Bottas in China and Canada. Hamilton also had a penalty in Bahrain which could well be what has made the team mate wars look better last year at this stage to now. Also, Bottas was worse last year. His first race was easily a lot worse than any so far this year. 8th in the quickest car and a crash in qualifying was not good at all. At least in Canada this year, the end result position wise despite him struggling to get there was pretty realistic for the car given Ferrari looked to be as good or slightly better. Hamilton's only race where I think his pace wasn't better than Bottas was australia. I don't think this is Bottas not being as strong, I think it is Hamilton having a better start than last year. Although it is interesting that they both have the same number of poles. I still think Hamilton hasn't sorted his issue out totally of being a bit inconsistent to start with, but he looks to be on it now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:16 am 
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Grosjean has to be the most unfairly voted driver this year. Why does he have far less than Magnussen here? Magnussen was awful this race..... He soon got passed by Grosjean and when he pitted, he was behind the 2 williams and took ages to get past. Really poor. The car is not at the level it should struggle to get past the williams, yet Magnussen hardly could despite being on new tyres. Grosjean was set to finish ahead of Magnussen despite being outqualified until bad luck struck him and he had to retire yet again. I just don't know what the reason is for Magnussen having any votes really. Grosjean's weekend wasn't good, but Magnussen was really poor. He only beat the Williams. You can say the car is heavily to blame, but Grosjean got more out of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:25 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Grosjean has to be the most unfairly voted driver this year. Why does he have far less than Magnussen here? Magnussen was awful this race..... He soon got passed by Grosjean and when he pitted, he was behind the 2 williams and took ages to get past. Really poor. The car is not at the level it should struggle to get past the williams, yet Magnussen hardly could despite being on new tyres. Grosjean was set to finish ahead of Magnussen despite being outqualified until bad luck struck him and he had to retire yet again. I just don't know what the reason is for Magnussen having any votes really. Grosjean's weekend wasn't good, but Magnussen was really poor. He only beat the Williams. You can say the car is heavily to blame, but Grosjean got more out of it.


Well, Magnussen did outqualify Grosjean. In the race, Grosjean was ahead because of the better strategy - and he made at least one big mistake ( resulting in an off -track excursion).
However, the Haas was so bad in the races recently, that it is difficult to judge the drivers besides their qualifying efforts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:29 am 
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Invade wrote:
Not sure which thread to post this in but I'm choosing this one.


At this point, I believe that even if Bottas outqualified Hamilton for the rest of the season, Hamilton would still finish ahead at least 50% of the time. I think for the most part Hamilton will simply crush Bottas in pace and craft in races.

not sure about that. Hamilton has hardly ever passed Bottas without team orders. So i very much doubt that if Bottas outqualified him, that it would be as much as half of those races that Hamilton beats him. Bottas is pretty good at defending if he doesn't make a mistake and it is really hard to pass with the same car.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:22 am 
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FYI, when I set the length of the poll I forgot Austria was this coming weekend. I don't like the TMW polls running into the next race weekend so I will take the totals as final at the start of FP1 this Friday.

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2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:50 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
FYI, when I set the length of the poll I forgot Austria was this coming weekend. I don't like the TMW polls running into the next race weekend so I will take the totals as final at the start of FP1 this Friday.


I've altered the length to 5 days. That'll still be Friday at 9pm, but the alternative was Thursday at 9pm!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:28 am 
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Mod Blue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
FYI, when I set the length of the poll I forgot Austria was this coming weekend. I don't like the TMW polls running into the next race weekend so I will take the totals as final at the start of FP1 this Friday.


I've altered the length to 5 days. That'll still be Friday at 9pm, but the alternative was Thursday at 9pm!


Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if I could change the end date without it resetting the entire poll so I thought it best to leave it.

To be honest Thursday at 9pm would be fine if you don't mind altering it again?

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2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:59 am 
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The only one I had to think about was Renault. Dan had the updated engine, qualified and raced ahead, then threw it away. So my vote goes to Hulk - he didn't have the latest and greatest equipment and finished ahead as the team's only points scorer when all was said and done

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:16 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
The only one I had to think about was Renault. Dan had the updated engine, qualified and raced ahead, then threw it away. So my vote goes to Hulk - he didn't have the latest and greatest equipment and finished ahead as the team's only points scorer when all was said and done

Indeed and let's not forget the Hulk was right behind Ricciardo on the track when he went from hero to zero, Ricciardo threw his race away and the Hulk scored the WDC points.

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2015: 3rd Place
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2017: 9th Place
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2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Mod Blue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
FYI, when I set the length of the poll I forgot Austria was this coming weekend. I don't like the TMW polls running into the next race weekend so I will take the totals as final at the start of FP1 this Friday.


I've altered the length to 5 days. That'll still be Friday at 9pm, but the alternative was Thursday at 9pm!


Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if I could change the end date without it resetting the entire poll so I thought it best to leave it.

To be honest Thursday at 9pm would be fine if you don't mind altering it again?




I went and tested it out on a test poll first to make sure I wouldn't mess up your votes!

Now set to Thursday at 9pm!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Mod Blue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Mod Blue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
FYI, when I set the length of the poll I forgot Austria was this coming weekend. I don't like the TMW polls running into the next race weekend so I will take the totals as final at the start of FP1 this Friday.


I've altered the length to 5 days. That'll still be Friday at 9pm, but the alternative was Thursday at 9pm!


Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if I could change the end date without it resetting the entire poll so I thought it best to leave it.

To be honest Thursday at 9pm would be fine if you don't mind altering it again?




I went and tested it out on a test poll first to make sure I wouldn't mess up your votes!

Now set to Thursday at 9pm!


Gracias, blue!

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2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:23 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Grosjean has to be the most unfairly voted driver this year. Why does he have far less than Magnussen here? Magnussen was awful this race..... He soon got passed by Grosjean and when he pitted, he was behind the 2 williams and took ages to get past. Really poor. The car is not at the level it should struggle to get past the williams, yet Magnussen hardly could despite being on new tyres. Grosjean was set to finish ahead of Magnussen despite being outqualified until bad luck struck him and he had to retire yet again. I just don't know what the reason is for Magnussen having any votes really. Grosjean's weekend wasn't good, but Magnussen was really poor. He only beat the Williams. You can say the car is heavily to blame, but Grosjean got more out of it.


Well, Magnussen did outqualify Grosjean. In the race, Grosjean was ahead because of the better strategy - and he made at least one big mistake ( resulting in an off -track excursion).
However, the Haas was so bad in the races recently, that it is difficult to judge the drivers besides their qualifying efforts.

But in qualifying, even Grosjean was over a full second ahead of the Williams. I don't think there is much of an excuse for Magnussen taking so many laps to get by them. It was him struggling that got Grosjean ahead. He pitted for new tyres early on and should have been able to use the gap ahead of the 2 williams to gain more on Grosjean. I thought that in the race, it was pretty clear Grosjean did the better job.


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