planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:44 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:42 pm
Posts: 144
Just an update, Honda confirms that Nando will test with a Honda powered car soon, it appears that it will be an Andretti-McLaren collaboration. Not that any of this is a surprise, but there was some speculation that he offended Honda so bad that he wasn't going to be in a Honda powered car and Andretti was going be be involved with him through his other partnership Harding Racing in a Chevy

https://autoweek.com/article/formula-on ... ourse-test

Andretti will have a hell of a lineup with fernando, but it makes since they already partnered with them for the indy500.

I think Fernando will probably be the best driver in Indycar, but do you guys that follow both Indycar and F1 think he will dominate the series? I think the cars are so close and that there is some serious talent now in Indycar that I doubt he will dominate in a way that say, Zanardi did back in his day. What do you guys think?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
rodH wrote:
Just an update, Honda confirms that Nando will test with a Honda powered car soon, it appears that it will be an Andretti-McLaren collaboration. Not that any of this is a surprise, but there was some speculation that he offended Honda so bad that he wasn't going to be in a Honda powered car and Andretti was going be be involved with him through his other partnership Harding Racing in a Chevy

https://autoweek.com/article/formula-on ... ourse-test

Andretti will have a hell of a lineup with fernando, but it makes since they already partnered with them for the indy500.

I think Fernando will probably be the best driver in Indycar, but do you guys that follow both Indycar and F1 think he will dominate the series? I think the cars are so close and that there is some serious talent now in Indycar that I doubt he will dominate in a way that say, Zanardi did back in his day. What do you guys think?

I think it's naive to think he'll walk in the door and dominate it. I do think he is a better driver than probably all of the Indy guys but there's a lot more to it, particularly the different ovals. IndyCar does often reward drivers with a "never say die" attitude, which should suit someone like Alonso

But he'll have some job on his hands trying to beat the Penske guys and Scott Dixon

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
mcdo wrote:
rodH wrote:
Just an update, Honda confirms that Nando will test with a Honda powered car soon, it appears that it will be an Andretti-McLaren collaboration. Not that any of this is a surprise, but there was some speculation that he offended Honda so bad that he wasn't going to be in a Honda powered car and Andretti was going be be involved with him through his other partnership Harding Racing in a Chevy

https://autoweek.com/article/formula-on ... ourse-test

Andretti will have a hell of a lineup with fernando, but it makes since they already partnered with them for the indy500.

I think Fernando will probably be the best driver in Indycar, but do you guys that follow both Indycar and F1 think he will dominate the series? I think the cars are so close and that there is some serious talent now in Indycar that I doubt he will dominate in a way that say, Zanardi did back in his day. What do you guys think?

I think it's naive to think he'll walk in the door and dominate it. I do think he is a better driver than probably all of the Indy guys but there's a lot more to it, particularly the different ovals. IndyCar does often reward drivers with a "never say die" attitude, which should suit someone like Alonso

But he'll have some job on his hands trying to beat the Penske guys and Scott Dixon

I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5929
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

And I'm ok with that. I don't see a problem with the motorsport world having a series that rewards consistency over outright wins. I'm definitely no fan of double points season finales though. Oh Montoya :-((

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5929
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?

The points system is certainly one part. Applying the current IndyCar points to the 2017 Formula One season (and bearing in mind that there are more races in an F1 season than an IndyCar season), Hamilton would have been on 787 points heading into the final race and Vettel would have been on 712. That would have made the championship technically still undecided at the final race, despite Vettel taking two DNFs to Hamilton's none. It would have been highly unlikely to go any way other than how it did, but that's just an example of the fragility of the championship 'going to the last round'.

Additionally, as Blake says, there are usually 4-5 drivers in a season who split the wins rather than the 1-3 more common in F1 (and only two in a season with a really dominant car). Over the last five years, the multiple race winners are:

(*) Power: 13
(*) Dixon: 11
(*) Newgarden: 10
(*) Pagenaud: 9
(*) Hunter-Reay: 6
(*) Bourdais: 6
Rahal: 5
Rossi: 4
Montoya: 4
Hinchcliffe: 3
Castroneves: 2
Conway: 2

With the drivers marked with a star being series champions. The wins definitely do tend to accumulate with the faster drivers, it's just that since everyone has a much more equal shot at winning there aren't any top level drivers who don't challenge for wins. If the F1 field were driving IndyCars, I'm fairly certain we'd have had some more winners over the past years as well (Alonso certainly would have won since 2013, for example).

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23910
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.

You would expect that in a spec series though, to be fair. The better funded teams will dominate, but circumstance will give every other driver a chance for victories, too. F1 used to give the minnows a chance, albeit small, but the current rigidity of the regulations makes that all highly unlikely now


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.

Well that's what you can basically expect in a spec series, let's stick all the F1 drivers into F2 cars then?

I don't understand what I said to get such a reply?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?

The points system is certainly one part. Applying the current IndyCar points to the 2017 Formula One season (and bearing in mind that there are more races in an F1 season than an IndyCar season), Hamilton would have been on 787 points heading into the final race and Vettel would have been on 712. That would have made the championship technically still undecided at the final race, despite Vettel taking two DNFs to Hamilton's none. It would have been highly unlikely to go any way other than how it did, but that's just an example of the fragility of the championship 'going to the last round'.

Additionally, as Blake says, there are usually 4-5 drivers in a season who split the wins rather than the 1-3 more common in F1 (and only two in a season with a really dominant car). Over the last five years, the multiple race winners are:

(*) Power: 13
(*) Dixon: 11
(*) Newgarden: 10
(*) Pagenaud: 9
(*) Hunter-Reay: 6
(*) Bourdais: 6
Rahal: 5
Rossi: 4
Montoya: 4
Hinchcliffe: 3
Castroneves: 2
Conway: 2

With the drivers marked with a star being series champions. The wins definitely do tend to accumulate with the faster drivers, it's just that since everyone has a much more equal shot at winning there aren't any top level drivers who don't challenge for wins. If the F1 field were driving IndyCars, I'm fairly certain we'd have had some more winners over the past years as well (Alonso certainly would have won since 2013, for example).

Yes as what you would kind of expect in what are basically spec cars and as you pointed out the points system is specifically designed to take the series down to the wire as it's done these past 12 years.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I read somewhere that the title has gone down to the wire for the last 12 years so no driver tends to actually dominate, my impression is that for any given race you need to have luck on your side to win and then I believe in recent times they've had double points finales?

Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.

Well that's what you can basically expect in a spec series, let's stick all the F1 drivers into F2 cars then?

I don't understand what I said to get such a reply?
?
What the hell did I say for you to be upset about??????

You appear to have a monster chip on your shoulder if you find offense at that post. This is getting old.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yes, they have unfortunately awarded double points for the season finale since 2015. The Indy 500 is also worth double points.

Additionally to that, the current Indy points system heavily rewards consistency over occasional wins. In F1, a win is worth more than double the points for the first place off the podium (4th). In Indy, a win is worth double the points for 8th place, and you get points for every position. The result is that simply running near the front is almost guaranteed to keep you within 100 points of the leader, which is the amount on offer for the final race.

However, I also don't think it's quite accurate to say that nobody dominates in IndyCar. No single driver has done so recently, but a small collection of drivers (mostly from only two or at most three teams) have taken the vast majority of the wins over the past seasons. There's currently a small crop at the top who are quite closely matched, and nobody else really has a look at the championship. It will be interesting to see what effect Alonso has on that dynamic.

Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.

Well that's what you can basically expect in a spec series, let's stick all the F1 drivers into F2 cars then?

I don't understand what I said to get such a reply?
?
What the hell did I say for you to be upset about??????

You appear to have a monster chip on your shoulder if you find offense at that post. This is getting old.

You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

Well compared to F1 it's a bit like a look into the past, this level of risk of course is no longer acceptable in F1.

I guess it's just unfortunate the last time I ventured into Indycars was last year in the Indy500, there had to witness Bourdais smashing his legs up in qualifying and in the race Dixon was launched in the air almost landed upside down onto the top of a wall, it's crazy stuff.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
pokerman wrote:
You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning.


NO, poker... You made the comment
Quote:
Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


To which I responded:
Quote:
The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.


You then responded:
Quote:
I don't understand what I said to get such a reply?


I then responded:
Quote:
What the hell did I say for you to be upset about??????

You appear to have a monster chip on your shoulder if you find offense at that post. This is getting old.

You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning[/quote]
.

And now you say:
Quote:
You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning.


I fail to see where I, in anyway, posted an out-of-line post, as your initial response tends to suggest. I simply pointed out that it is not ONLY the points system that keeps INDYcar scoring close, it is several competitive drivers in competitive cars. If you find that inappropriate, please explain, as I don't get it.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6382
Location: Nebraska, USA
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

Well compared to F1 it's a bit like a look into the past, this level of risk of course is no longer acceptable in F1.

I guess it's just unfortunate the last time I ventured into Indycars was last year in the Indy500, there had to witness Bourdais smashing his legs up in qualifying and in the race Dixon was launched in the air almost landed upside down onto the top of a wall, it's crazy stuff.


Poker, there is no doubt that there are dangers in racing.. all forms of racing. Is Indy car racing more dangerous than F1, perhaps, but it is a different racing discipline. The drivers know that there is a risk in any kind of racing In fact, as Mario Andretti was saying during the red flag period for repairs, the danger is part of the reason that drivers race. If that were not a part of the appeal, they might well seek employment sitting behind a monitor at a desk. Isn't it up to the individual drivers to determine if the specific racing series is too dangerous, and if so, then they don't enter it. Schumi was reportedly uncomfortable with racing with cement walls so close at such great speed, so he chose not to do it. That is fine, it is his choice and I certainly respected it. Perhaps there are others who feel that way too, again, fine, it is their choice. The flip side of that is that I tend to have even greater respect for drivers who like to challenge themselves in multiple racing series... again, that is my personal criteria, not everybody feels the same.

That does not mean that the series should not be continuously working to improve the safety or all involved. Mario also addressed that question as well, pointing out that safety is a constant work-in-progress. The Safer Barriers, Driver tubs, Hans devices, etc are all examples of that. All racing series work to do that, and are obligated to do so. You find Indy car racing to be more dangerous than F1, and perhaps you are right, then again, it is a different racing discipline with different risks. I watch WRC and think, WOW, that is dangerous, and of course it is. Off-shore boat racing can be incredibly dangerous, yet people still do it. Is F1 inherently safer than other types of racing, or has it just been luckier in recent years?

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14191
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

Well compared to F1 it's a bit like a look into the past, this level of risk of course is no longer acceptable in F1.

I guess it's just unfortunate the last time I ventured into Indycars was last year in the Indy500, there had to witness Bourdais smashing his legs up in qualifying and in the race Dixon was launched in the air almost landed upside down onto the top of a wall, it's crazy stuff.


Indycar is definitely more dangerous than F1 but you can't go through life living on your knees. People have fun doing a lot riskier things than racing Indycars.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning.


NO, poker... You made the comment
Quote:
Fair enough so the fastest drivers do win the races it's just the points system that tends to keep things close?


To which I responded:
Quote:
The point is, there are several drivers who can and have won races... that ALSO helps keep things close. F1 cannot say the same. Like F1, there are some dominate teams.. ie Penske, Ganassi and Andretti, but even other teams have won races.


You then responded:
Quote:
I don't understand what I said to get such a reply?


I then responded:
Quote:
What the hell did I say for you to be upset about??????

You appear to have a monster chip on your shoulder if you find offense at that post. This is getting old.

You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning
.

And now you say:
Quote:
You was making a point about something I wasn't even questioning.


I fail to see where I, in anyway, posted an out-of-line post, as your initial response tends to suggest. I simply pointed out that it is not ONLY the points system that keeps INDYcar scoring close, it is several competitive drivers in competitive cars. If you find that inappropriate, please explain, as I don't get it.[/quote]


Lost in interpretation, I said fastest drivers win as opposed to fastest cars so I didn't need the F1 comparison like I was missing the point.

The reference to the points system was from my post were I questioned whether winning races was down to luck were the lottery nature of the races dictated the winners to which I was told that the fastest drivers do tend to win, so then I said it was the points system that tended to keep things close then bearing in mind that the last 12 titles went down to the wire and the points system has such things as a double points finale, you know even with multiple winners it's unusual for titles to go down to the wire year after year if I just say use any other spec series as an example.

Your reply was like you read one short post and didn't read what I said previously.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Last edited by pokerman on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

Well compared to F1 it's a bit like a look into the past, this level of risk of course is no longer acceptable in F1.

I guess it's just unfortunate the last time I ventured into Indycars was last year in the Indy500, there had to witness Bourdais smashing his legs up in qualifying and in the race Dixon was launched in the air almost landed upside down onto the top of a wall, it's crazy stuff.


Poker, there is no doubt that there are dangers in racing.. all forms of racing. Is Indy car racing more dangerous than F1, perhaps, but it is a different racing discipline. The drivers know that there is a risk in any kind of racing In fact, as Mario Andretti was saying during the red flag period for repairs, the danger is part of the reason that drivers race. If that were not a part of the appeal, they might well seek employment sitting behind a monitor at a desk. Isn't it up to the individual drivers to determine if the specific racing series is too dangerous, and if so, then they don't enter it. Schumi was reportedly uncomfortable with racing with cement walls so close at such great speed, so he chose not to do it. That is fine, it is his choice and I certainly respected it. Perhaps there are others who feel that way too, again, fine, it is their choice. The flip side of that is that I tend to have even greater respect for drivers who like to challenge themselves in multiple racing series... again, that is my personal criteria, not everybody feels the same.

That does not mean that the series should not be continuously working to improve the safety or all involved. Mario also addressed that question as well, pointing out that safety is a constant work-in-progress. The Safer Barriers, Driver tubs, Hans devices, etc are all examples of that. All racing series work to do that, and are obligated to do so. You find Indy car racing to be more dangerous than F1, and perhaps you are right, then again, it is a different racing discipline with different risks. I watch WRC and think, WOW, that is dangerous, and of course it is. Off-shore boat racing can be incredibly dangerous, yet people still do it. Is F1 inherently safer than other types of racing, or has it just been luckier in recent years?

A very reasoned post, me personally I feel uncomfortable seeing people badly injured, of course such things can happen in motorsport in general, oval racing or to be more precise with Ponoco, super speedways seem to have much higher odds on drivers getting injured or even killed, with Wickens it seemed more a case I hope he's still alive rather than I hope he's not injured, the injured part seemed to be an almost inevitability.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27954
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
That's true, Zoue. The point is that it is unlikely for one particular driver to totally dominate the series, even one as talented as Alonso. While Alonso maybe the best talent in Indy cars if he goes that way, I suspect he will find the competition every bit as tough as what he sees in F1... If not tougher. However, for a change he should have a competitive car. I would be surprised if Nando I did not find the Top step of the podium sometime during even in his first year. The best thing is that he should have more fun and less frustration.
:)

More fun?

I'm watching the red flagged Ponoco race, Wickens and Hinchcliffe aren't having much fun at the moment, is oval racing really safe?

Hoping Wickens is not too badly hurt.

How scary is this?

https://twitter.com/ryanpistana/status/ ... 0676545536



Yes, fun. These drivers... All race drivers...are well aware of the risks, yet they still do it. Why?

That was a horrendous accident and hopefully he is going to be OK. BTW, Pocono is not an oval, not that it matters in this case.

Well compared to F1 it's a bit like a look into the past, this level of risk of course is no longer acceptable in F1.

I guess it's just unfortunate the last time I ventured into Indycars was last year in the Indy500, there had to witness Bourdais smashing his legs up in qualifying and in the race Dixon was launched in the air almost landed upside down onto the top of a wall, it's crazy stuff.


Indycar is definitely more dangerous than F1 but you can't go through life living on your knees. People have fun doing a lot riskier things than racing Indycars.

As a spectator sport though do people want to watch anybody get seriously hurt, of course such things can happen but oval racing in particular seems to be a discipline were you don't really want to be having a crash.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:37 pm
Posts: 558
Fans are petitioning for an Alonso return to Ferrari....
https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/2960 ... t-ferrari/

_________________
You just need to be accepted for who you are and be proud of who you are and that is what I'm trying to do.
Lewis Hamilton


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 5480
Alonso won a race recently!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCSOVsiVaok


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Clarky, Laz_T800, Lojik, owenmahamilton, TheGiantHogweed and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group