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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Super Aguri Fun Time wrote:
I'm not sure how anyone can determine who was better with McLaren in 2015. Whoever got the car that worked that week probably performed better...

Hughes comparisons are for when the cars worked for both drivers.

Yes, but did they work equally well? How often were both Maccas the same specification anyway? Even if both cars ran, we still don't know that they were equal.


The Honda ers system didn't harvest,store or deploy properly so there was questions whether both cars had the same electrical deployment available to them but that should be less of an issue in Q as they'd both be fully charged you would hope before they ran their lap.

And any deployment issue would be felt and reported on that run and Hughes would discount I reasoned. I discounted Jpn for Alonso because I assumed Hughes did so for Button's first run where he had such an issue with being in the right mode.(Even though it could be argued that was JB's own fault)

Trying to guess what 7 Hughes counted is a bit of a nightmare tbh. There was only 6 I'm 100% sure of but Spain for Alonso I counted as I don't know if JB's pulling to the left was an actual issue or a JB-esque feel issue which would discount most of 2012 if we were being fair so I kept it.

Thinking about it now I've written that, maybe it was Japan he kept and did blame JB for being in the wrong mode and Spain was a car issue. I just don't know but I can't make 7 any other way.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:46 pm 
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What 5 did you give Button, poker? Just out of interest as if there's reason to discount 1 or 2 it will show what Hughe's score could be. I mentioned I scored it 7-5 to Alonso so it's maybe not a coincidence we both have 5 there for JB.

I initially gave him..

Mal
Chn
Bel
Ita
Rus

But there was grid drops in Belgium,Italy and Russia so I assumed Hughes dropped them because if he counted them then you can't make only 7 results as Alonso has at least 3 cast iron wins in GB,Sing and US. I know US was wet but afaik Hughes only discounts drying tracks and it was full wet conditions for both in all runs. Jpn and Spn were only two sessions I could see any argument as the 7th result and both went to Alonso anyway so didn't affect the score so I guessed at Spn as the fairest as it was feel vs an actual wrong mode if you see what I mean.

So I then gave JB back Monaco because he mentions using earlier clear runs so that's the 3 I gave JB in my 4-3 guess of Hughes results...

Mal
Chn
Mon


Just showing where I got the numbers from in the interest of full disclosure.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Spoke to a pal about this and he thinks 5-2 to Button is plausible. He thinks Hughes might not have dropped the grid drop one's listed above and added them to the other two already listed to give JB the full 5 I listed above and keep Monaco dropped because of Alonso's issue (This is the bit I struggle with).

Then from Alonso, drop USA because it's wet,Spain because JB said it was pulling to the left in the braking zone and Japan because JB was in the wrong mode. That gives Alonso Singapore and GB only.

I think it's possible actually but Monaco troubles me as Hughes specifically mentions using earlier rounds but I haven't done the numbers.

Whatever one (The 4-3 to Alonso I listed on the previous page or this 5-2 to Button one) comes out at 0.00% then that's the 7 he went with so anyone bored can figure it out if they want as I really can't be bothered working it out as a % at each track like he does but if anyone fancies a pet project, knock yourself out but I thought I'd better mention it as I'd only seen one way to make 7 but he's pointed out this one so there must be more plausible. :thumbup:

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Super Aguri Fun Time wrote:
I'm not sure how anyone can determine who was better with McLaren in 2015. Whoever got the car that worked that week probably performed better...

Hughes comparisons are for when the cars worked for both drivers.

Yes, but did they work equally well? How often were both Maccas the same specification anyway? Even if both cars ran, we still don't know that they were equal.

This surely is were Hughes inside track to the teams comes into play?

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Last edited by pokerman on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alonso wasn't usually ahead in 2015 qualifying.

In 2007 I was querying his methodology, Hughes has come forward and said that he asked the teams themselves about the qualifying fuel loads, so he's on the front line whilst I'm sat in my armchair, he obviously has more credibility, so with that in mind I moved forward to discuss other years, strange you view that as a validation of my own work?


He was, he won 4-3 by my reckoning of Hughes stated 7 comparable results although he doesn't specify which ones they were. It's the time difference between them in percentage form where Hughes can't split them. The only 7 comparable results I can get using Hughes's stated methodology is Alonso 4 (Spn,GB,Sing and US) and Button 3 (Mal,Chn and Monaco). Maybe I've messed up but all the rest seem to contain things he'd rule out while those 7 contain runs that can be classed as "clean". Without knowing his specifics it's hard to say for sure though of course. I actually had 12 clean results iirc (Alonso 7-5 Button) so it highlights what some find fair runs in quali, others don't.

It just seems strange to disagree with some numbers from the article but get the hump with me for not giving enough praise in a comparison based on other numbers from the same article. Not sure what you mean with the validation bit though?

I had it 5-4 Button, you're guessing Hughes had it 4-3 to Alonso and even given that it doesn't make Alonso the default quicker driver for any missing sessions.

I've gone past discussing the 2007 season and gone onto other seasons, you mentioned me thinking that Hughes was validating my work.


So you don't even agree with his numbers with the Button example either? WTF?. So what are we even discussing then? That numbers you don't even agree with make Lewis look better against JB than Alonso? What a fascinating insight that is and well worth everyone's time. :uhoh:


Well isn't that what this sentence from you was implying...

"You know such systems as mine I have seen ridiculed but it's interesting that such a respected journalist as Hughes sees such merit in such systems when evaluating drivers"

You asked what I had and I told you, I go back to what I said before in that I'm doing this from my armchair whilst Hughes is on the front line, going from Hughes making it 4-3 to Alonso in 2015 then like I said that doesn't make Alonso default quicker in any missing sessions.

I clearly say merit in such systems as a means to evaluating drivers, Hughes figures don't exactly tally with mine so that questions a lack of accuracy in the data that I used so that's not exactly validating me, but the point being that some people don't like these kind of comparisons as a way of seeing any kind of pecking order.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Spoke to a pal about this and he thinks 5-2 to Button is plausible. He thinks Hughes might not have dropped the grid drop one's listed above and added them to the other two already listed to give JB the full 5 I listed above and keep Monaco dropped because of Alonso's issue (This is the bit I struggle with).

Then from Alonso, drop USA because it's wet,Spain because JB said it was pulling to the left in the braking zone and Japan because JB was in the wrong mode. That gives Alonso Singapore and GB only.

I think it's possible actually but Monaco troubles me as Hughes specifically mentions using earlier rounds but I haven't done the numbers.

Whatever one (The 4-3 to Alonso I listed on the previous page or this 5-2 to Button one) comes out at 0.00% then that's the 7 he went with so anyone bored can figure it out if they want as I really can't be bothered working it out as a % at each track like he does but if anyone fancies a pet project, knock yourself out but I thought I'd better mention it as I'd only seen one way to make 7 but he's pointed out this one so there must be more plausible. :thumbup:

I appreciate the effort you've put into this, I originally had Button on 6 but then after discussion with you I could see it as being 5 and to that point I was going to change that on my data but then when checking I still have it as 6 and can't remember the one I should have dropped.

Mine is just data with the tracks not listed so I have to back track to see what numbers correspond to what track, if Hughes has it as 5-2 to Button then I have to admit I don't understand how his average figure is 0s and not shown as an advantage to Button, so without him explaining himself it's quite confusing.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alonso wasn't usually ahead in 2015 qualifying.

In 2007 I was querying his methodology, Hughes has come forward and said that he asked the teams themselves about the qualifying fuel loads, so he's on the front line whilst I'm sat in my armchair, he obviously has more credibility, so with that in mind I moved forward to discuss other years, strange you view that as a validation of my own work?


He was, he won 4-3 by my reckoning of Hughes stated 7 comparable results although he doesn't specify which ones they were. It's the time difference between them in percentage form where Hughes can't split them. The only 7 comparable results I can get using Hughes's stated methodology is Alonso 4 (Spn,GB,Sing and US) and Button 3 (Mal,Chn and Monaco). Maybe I've messed up but all the rest seem to contain things he'd rule out while those 7 contain runs that can be classed as "clean". Without knowing his specifics it's hard to say for sure though of course. I actually had 12 clean results iirc (Alonso 7-5 Button) so it highlights what some find fair runs in quali, others don't.

It just seems strange to disagree with some numbers from the article but get the hump with me for not giving enough praise in a comparison based on other numbers from the same article. Not sure what you mean with the validation bit though?

I had it 5-4 Button, you're guessing Hughes had it 4-3 to Alonso and even given that it doesn't make Alonso the default quicker driver for any missing sessions.

I've gone past discussing the 2007 season and gone onto other seasons, you mentioned me thinking that Hughes was validating my work.


So you don't even agree with his numbers with the Button example either? WTF?. So what are we even discussing then? That numbers you don't even agree with make Lewis look better against JB than Alonso? What a fascinating insight that is and well worth everyone's time. :uhoh:


Well isn't that what this sentence from you was implying...

"You know such systems as mine I have seen ridiculed but it's interesting that such a respected journalist as Hughes sees such merit in such systems when evaluating drivers"

You asked what I had and I told you, I go back to what I said before in that I'm doing this from my armchair whilst Hughes is on the front line, going from Hughes making it 4-3 to Alonso in 2015 then like I said that doesn't make Alonso default quicker in any missing sessions.

I clearly say merit in such systems as a means to evaluating drivers, Hughes figures don't exactly tally with mine so that questions a lack of accuracy in the data that I used so that's not exactly validating me, but the point being that some people don't like these kind of comparisons as a way of seeing any kind of pecking order.


What did I ask? I didn't ask about a Lewis comparison using JB did I? And I even agreed with what your conclusion was but you didn't like me using the word slightly. 2 days later we find out you don't even agree with the numbers the comparison is based on in the first place so what was the point?

I think people value team mate comparisons and appreciate the work that goes in to it but cross comparisons are less well received and obviously numbers lack context so there's always a healthy dose of scepticism to any conclusion drawn from just numbers.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Spoke to a pal about this and he thinks 5-2 to Button is plausible. He thinks Hughes might not have dropped the grid drop one's listed above and added them to the other two already listed to give JB the full 5 I listed above and keep Monaco dropped because of Alonso's issue (This is the bit I struggle with).

Then from Alonso, drop USA because it's wet,Spain because JB said it was pulling to the left in the braking zone and Japan because JB was in the wrong mode. That gives Alonso Singapore and GB only.

I think it's possible actually but Monaco troubles me as Hughes specifically mentions using earlier rounds but I haven't done the numbers.

Whatever one (The 4-3 to Alonso I listed on the previous page or this 5-2 to Button one) comes out at 0.00% then that's the 7 he went with so anyone bored can figure it out if they want as I really can't be bothered working it out as a % at each track like he does but if anyone fancies a pet project, knock yourself out but I thought I'd better mention it as I'd only seen one way to make 7 but he's pointed out this one so there must be more plausible. :thumbup:

I appreciate the effort you've put into this, I originally had Button on 6 but then after discussion with you I could see it as being 5 and to that point I was going to change that on my data but then when checking I still have it as 6 and can't remember the one I should have dropped.

Mine is just data with the tracks not listed so I have to back track to see what numbers correspond to what track, if Hughes has it as 5-2 to Button then I have to admit I don't understand how his average figure is 0s and not shown as an advantage to Button, so without him explaining himself it's quite confusing.


Yeah I'm a bit stuck myself. I think there's more possible combinations if he's including one or two of the gird drop sessions but dropping the wet US one for Alonso as well so it gets more confusing.

Like you say without more from Hughes it's tough to know.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:46 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He was, he won 4-3 by my reckoning of Hughes stated 7 comparable results although he doesn't specify which ones they were. It's the time difference between them in percentage form where Hughes can't split them. The only 7 comparable results I can get using Hughes's stated methodology is Alonso 4 (Spn,GB,Sing and US) and Button 3 (Mal,Chn and Monaco). Maybe I've messed up but all the rest seem to contain things he'd rule out while those 7 contain runs that can be classed as "clean". Without knowing his specifics it's hard to say for sure though of course. I actually had 12 clean results iirc (Alonso 7-5 Button) so it highlights what some find fair runs in quali, others don't.

It just seems strange to disagree with some numbers from the article but get the hump with me for not giving enough praise in a comparison based on other numbers from the same article. Not sure what you mean with the validation bit though?

I had it 5-4 Button, you're guessing Hughes had it 4-3 to Alonso and even given that it doesn't make Alonso the default quicker driver for any missing sessions.

I've gone past discussing the 2007 season and gone onto other seasons, you mentioned me thinking that Hughes was validating my work.


So you don't even agree with his numbers with the Button example either? WTF?. So what are we even discussing then? That numbers you don't even agree with make Lewis look better against JB than Alonso? What a fascinating insight that is and well worth everyone's time. :uhoh:


Well isn't that what this sentence from you was implying...

"You know such systems as mine I have seen ridiculed but it's interesting that such a respected journalist as Hughes sees such merit in such systems when evaluating drivers"

You asked what I had and I told you, I go back to what I said before in that I'm doing this from my armchair whilst Hughes is on the front line, going from Hughes making it 4-3 to Alonso in 2015 then like I said that doesn't make Alonso default quicker in any missing sessions.

I clearly say merit in such systems as a means to evaluating drivers, Hughes figures don't exactly tally with mine so that questions a lack of accuracy in the data that I used so that's not exactly validating me, but the point being that some people don't like these kind of comparisons as a way of seeing any kind of pecking order.


What did I ask? I didn't ask about a Lewis comparison using JB did I? And I even agreed with what your conclusion was but you didn't like me using the word slightly. 2 days later we find out you don't even agree with the numbers the comparison is based on in the first place so what was the point?

I think people value team mate comparisons and appreciate the work that goes in to it but cross comparisons are less well received and obviously numbers lack context so there's always a healthy dose of scepticism to any conclusion drawn from just numbers.

The cross reference with Button was something I brought forward myself when looking at Hughes' data, once posted then surely it's there to be commented on?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:49 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Spoke to a pal about this and he thinks 5-2 to Button is plausible. He thinks Hughes might not have dropped the grid drop one's listed above and added them to the other two already listed to give JB the full 5 I listed above and keep Monaco dropped because of Alonso's issue (This is the bit I struggle with).

Then from Alonso, drop USA because it's wet,Spain because JB said it was pulling to the left in the braking zone and Japan because JB was in the wrong mode. That gives Alonso Singapore and GB only.

I think it's possible actually but Monaco troubles me as Hughes specifically mentions using earlier rounds but I haven't done the numbers.

Whatever one (The 4-3 to Alonso I listed on the previous page or this 5-2 to Button one) comes out at 0.00% then that's the 7 he went with so anyone bored can figure it out if they want as I really can't be bothered working it out as a % at each track like he does but if anyone fancies a pet project, knock yourself out but I thought I'd better mention it as I'd only seen one way to make 7 but he's pointed out this one so there must be more plausible. :thumbup:

I appreciate the effort you've put into this, I originally had Button on 6 but then after discussion with you I could see it as being 5 and to that point I was going to change that on my data but then when checking I still have it as 6 and can't remember the one I should have dropped.

Mine is just data with the tracks not listed so I have to back track to see what numbers correspond to what track, if Hughes has it as 5-2 to Button then I have to admit I don't understand how his average figure is 0s and not shown as an advantage to Button, so without him explaining himself it's quite confusing.


Yeah I'm a bit stuck myself. I think there's more possible combinations if he's including one or two of the gird drop sessions but dropping the wet US one for Alonso as well so it gets more confusing.

Like you say without more from Hughes it's tough to know.

As a general overview however I believe it was very close between the two of them in 2015, close enough to call it equal.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

So you don't even agree with his numbers with the Button example either? WTF?. So what are we even discussing then? That numbers you don't even agree with make Lewis look better against JB than Alonso? What a fascinating insight that is and well worth everyone's time. :uhoh:


Well isn't that what this sentence from you was implying...

"You know such systems as mine I have seen ridiculed but it's interesting that such a respected journalist as Hughes sees such merit in such systems when evaluating drivers"

You asked what I had and I told you, I go back to what I said before in that I'm doing this from my armchair whilst Hughes is on the front line, going from Hughes making it 4-3 to Alonso in 2015 then like I said that doesn't make Alonso default quicker in any missing sessions.

I clearly say merit in such systems as a means to evaluating drivers, Hughes figures don't exactly tally with mine so that questions a lack of accuracy in the data that I used so that's not exactly validating me, but the point being that some people don't like these kind of comparisons as a way of seeing any kind of pecking order.


What did I ask? I didn't ask about a Lewis comparison using JB did I? And I even agreed with what your conclusion was but you didn't like me using the word slightly. 2 days later we find out you don't even agree with the numbers the comparison is based on in the first place so what was the point?

I think people value team mate comparisons and appreciate the work that goes in to it but cross comparisons are less well received and obviously numbers lack context so there's always a healthy dose of scepticism to any conclusion drawn from just numbers.

The cross reference with Button was something I brought forward myself when looking at Hughes' data, once posted then surely it's there to be commented on?


Sure. But why care I said slightly better based on these numbers and argue much better when you don't agree with the numbers yourself is what I'm struggling with.

It just seems a complete waste of time.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Spoke to a pal about this and he thinks 5-2 to Button is plausible. He thinks Hughes might not have dropped the grid drop one's listed above and added them to the other two already listed to give JB the full 5 I listed above and keep Monaco dropped because of Alonso's issue (This is the bit I struggle with).

Then from Alonso, drop USA because it's wet,Spain because JB said it was pulling to the left in the braking zone and Japan because JB was in the wrong mode. That gives Alonso Singapore and GB only.

I think it's possible actually but Monaco troubles me as Hughes specifically mentions using earlier rounds but I haven't done the numbers.

Whatever one (The 4-3 to Alonso I listed on the previous page or this 5-2 to Button one) comes out at 0.00% then that's the 7 he went with so anyone bored can figure it out if they want as I really can't be bothered working it out as a % at each track like he does but if anyone fancies a pet project, knock yourself out but I thought I'd better mention it as I'd only seen one way to make 7 but he's pointed out this one so there must be more plausible. :thumbup:

I appreciate the effort you've put into this, I originally had Button on 6 but then after discussion with you I could see it as being 5 and to that point I was going to change that on my data but then when checking I still have it as 6 and can't remember the one I should have dropped.

Mine is just data with the tracks not listed so I have to back track to see what numbers correspond to what track, if Hughes has it as 5-2 to Button then I have to admit I don't understand how his average figure is 0s and not shown as an advantage to Button, so without him explaining himself it's quite confusing.


Yeah I'm a bit stuck myself. I think there's more possible combinations if he's including one or two of the gird drop sessions but dropping the wet US one for Alonso as well so it gets more confusing.

Like you say without more from Hughes it's tough to know.

As a general overview however I believe it was very close between the two of them in 2015, close enough to call it equal.


I agree it was close anyway yeah. Not enough clean sessions to get a better read on it.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:59 pm 
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We're STILL taking about Hamilton? Oh Lord. Anyway. What are the odds Alonso walks away from formula one after this season? It's looking more and more likely to be another doozie.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:05 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?


They said multi-year but I think it's a 1+1 with options on both sides as otherwise you'd just describe it as a two year or three year deal like his last one.

Eyeing up that Renault seat already? :twisted:

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?


They said multi-year but I think it's a 1+1 with options on both sides as otherwise you'd just describe it as a two year or three year deal like his last one.

Eyeing up that Renault seat already? :twisted:

He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:42 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?


They said multi-year but I think it's a 1+1 with options on both sides as otherwise you'd just describe it as a two year or three year deal like his last one.

Eyeing up that Renault seat already? :twisted:

He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:06 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?


They said multi-year but I think it's a 1+1 with options on both sides as otherwise you'd just describe it as a two year or three year deal like his last one.

Eyeing up that Renault seat already? :twisted:

He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

In all honesty, I have to question the management of the organization at McLaren. Not having this rig and yet shelling out $40-50 million a year on Alonso shows a shocking lack of perspective. What good is an Alonso when the car isn't competitive? Alonso and Mclaren no longer make sense for each other. Mclaren would be far better off investing that $40-50 million into infrastructure and personnel to make their car more competitive.

Alonso has been spinning his wheels since leaving Ferrari without even a sniff at the podium these last 3 years. I'd like to see him have one last hurrah in a car that can actually win something but at this stage he's going to have to be willing to swallow his pride and make himself available for perhaps a bit less than he's worth in order to entice the top teams into signing him up. Oddly enough I can't help but think that an opportunity at Ferrari or Mercedes might still be an outside possibility but it would require a falling-out between the teams and either Vettel or Hamilton. They won't sign him to replace either Bottas or Raikkonen IMO.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Did he sign a multi-year contract or is he now on a year-to-year basis with the team?


They said multi-year but I think it's a 1+1 with options on both sides as otherwise you'd just describe it as a two year or three year deal like his last one.

Eyeing up that Renault seat already? :twisted:

He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

In all honesty, I have to question the management of the organization at McLaren. Not having this rig and yet shelling out $40-50 million a year on Alonso shows a shocking lack of perspective. What good is an Alonso when the car isn't competitive? Alonso and Mclaren no longer make sense for each other. Mclaren would be far better off investing that $40-50 million into infrastructure and personnel to make their car more competitive.

Alonso has been spinning his wheels since leaving Ferrari without even a sniff at the podium these last 3 years. I'd like to see him have one last hurrah in a car that can actually win something but at this stage he's going to have to be willing to swallow his pride and make himself available for perhaps a bit less than he's worth in order to entice the top teams into signing him up. Oddly enough I can't help but think that an opportunity at Ferrari or Mercedes might still be an outside possibility but it would require a falling-out between the teams and either Vettel or Hamilton. They won't sign him to replace either Bottas or Raikkonen IMO.


It's tough because it makes sense to save that cash and buy the rig but they've got so much sponsorship and prize money to recoup that he is viewed as integral for. Plus if he left, the talent in the technical department can get itchy feet as it sends a sign they're no longer a top team if they don't have top drivers so it's always a compromise and they had access to a rig until this year so it wasn't an either/or scenario back then. (Honda have one)

But as I understand it he did take a significant pay cut for this new deal, with the rest being made up with Kimoa placement on the car,lids and overalls.

I think all doors are closed now barring fallouts, outside of Enstone and McLaren, yeah.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

In all honesty, I have to question the management of the organization at McLaren. Not having this rig and yet shelling out $40-50 million a year on Alonso shows a shocking lack of perspective. What good is an Alonso when the car isn't competitive? Alonso and Mclaren no longer make sense for each other. Mclaren would be far better off investing that $40-50 million into infrastructure and personnel to make their car more competitive.

Alonso has been spinning his wheels since leaving Ferrari without even a sniff at the podium these last 3 years. I'd like to see him have one last hurrah in a car that can actually win something but at this stage he's going to have to be willing to swallow his pride and make himself available for perhaps a bit less than he's worth in order to entice the top teams into signing him up. Oddly enough I can't help but think that an opportunity at Ferrari or Mercedes might still be an outside possibility but it would require a falling-out between the teams and either Vettel or Hamilton. They won't sign him to replace either Bottas or Raikkonen IMO.


It's tough because it makes sense to save that cash and buy the rig but they've got so much sponsorship and prize money to recoup that he is viewed as integral for. Plus if he left, the talent in the technical department can get itchy feet as it sends a sign they're no longer a top team if they don't have top drivers so it's always a compromise and they had access to a rig until this year so it wasn't an either/or scenario back then. (Honda have one)

But as I understand it he did take a significant pay cut for this new deal, with the rest being made up with Kimoa placement on the car,lids and overalls.

I think all doors are closed now barring fallouts, outside of Enstone and McLaren, yeah.

McLaren are the only ones who are still under the illusion that they are a top team. My father used to always say that in order to get to where you want to be, you must first fully understand where you ARE. I think the whole "top-team" act is wearing thin at this point. It's been almost 6 years since the last win...

By the way, a big part of the reason they have a deficit with regards to sponsorship is that they were too proud to sell the sponsorship for an appropriate market value; insisting instead that they be able to charge like it's 2008 and they are still one of the top 2 teams in F1. They left a lot of money on the table these last few years due to nothing but pride. I think they need to fully embrace their current situation and that means getting a title sponsor, moving on from Alonso and starting to re-build this broken organization.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:08 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

In all honesty, I have to question the management of the organization at McLaren. Not having this rig and yet shelling out $40-50 million a year on Alonso shows a shocking lack of perspective. What good is an Alonso when the car isn't competitive? Alonso and Mclaren no longer make sense for each other. Mclaren would be far better off investing that $40-50 million into infrastructure and personnel to make their car more competitive.

Alonso has been spinning his wheels since leaving Ferrari without even a sniff at the podium these last 3 years. I'd like to see him have one last hurrah in a car that can actually win something but at this stage he's going to have to be willing to swallow his pride and make himself available for perhaps a bit less than he's worth in order to entice the top teams into signing him up. Oddly enough I can't help but think that an opportunity at Ferrari or Mercedes might still be an outside possibility but it would require a falling-out between the teams and either Vettel or Hamilton. They won't sign him to replace either Bottas or Raikkonen IMO.


It's tough because it makes sense to save that cash and buy the rig but they've got so much sponsorship and prize money to recoup that he is viewed as integral for. Plus if he left, the talent in the technical department can get itchy feet as it sends a sign they're no longer a top team if they don't have top drivers so it's always a compromise and they had access to a rig until this year so it wasn't an either/or scenario back then. (Honda have one)

But as I understand it he did take a significant pay cut for this new deal, with the rest being made up with Kimoa placement on the car,lids and overalls.

I think all doors are closed now barring fallouts, outside of Enstone and McLaren, yeah.

McLaren are the only ones who are still under the illusion that they are a top team. My father used to always say that in order to get to where you want to be, you must first fully understand where you ARE. I think the whole "top-team" act is wearing thin at this point. It's been almost 6 years since the last win...

By the way, a big part of the reason they have a deficit with regards to sponsorship is that they were too proud to sell the sponsorship for an appropriate market value; insisting instead that they be able to charge like it's 2008 and they are still one of the top 2 teams in F1. They left a lot of money on the table these last few years due to nothing but pride. I think they need to fully embrace their current situation and that means getting a title sponsor, moving on from Alonso and starting to re-build this broken organization.

This guy gets it.

They need a big helping of humble pie and admit that this isn't the NFL where worst to first doesn't happen all that often and usually requires a major rules change to achieve.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:24 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
He and his manager have to do whatever they can to get the hell out of there. McLaren are not looking like they'll be a contender any time soon. Obviously Alonso will be desperate to either join Mercedes or re-join Ferrari. It might be tough to make that happen though. Ricciardo will be the more likely signing for either of those teams and it's entirely possible that Mercedes will remain with Bottas if he has a solid season. Red Bull is not an option based on their track record of only working with their own youngsters.

To touch on your suggestion that he might end up with Renault. I think that is his best bet by far and I think he should really push with all of his might to make it happen sooner rather than later. He's into the twilight of his career and even a team like Renault will no longer see him as an ideal choice but he's certainly the best driver who will be on the market for a seat (I'm assuming Hamilton will re-sign with Mercedes and Max and Seb have already re-signed long-term). I believe Daniel will definitely go to either Ferrari or Mercedes so I really think that, with Max locked into a long-term deal, Renault will not have any similar level driver to hire in the near-term future. Alonso must strike now while the opportunity is there or he will find himself as the odd man out. I think it's likely that they will be more interested in Leclerc or even Ocon as they are younger and could be an integral part of the team moving forward.

Ironically, Renault are probably looking more for an Alonso like the one they signed in 2003 than Alonso as he is today. Fred is really getting to the point of having nowhere to turn. McLaren have been a major disappointment these last few years. Perhaps this is all premature and McLaren will pull their season together but it's not looking good.


No, I think all that is more than fair. You've got to worry about McLaren's chances, Eric admitted today they don't have a full chassis dyno test rig the likes of the big 3 have.

No-one's won without one since 2013. Since then it's only the teams with them that have won a race, never mind a title, so it's really tough for him as the only realistic choices, McLaren and Renault, both don't have one and I don't think either have plans of changing that yet as they are so expensive.

The top 3 are effectively testing 24/7 so it's pretty tough to challenge when you can't do that. It's like going up against 3 Ferrari's with Fiorano but a Fiorano that can run 24/7 without a driver.

Gulp.

In all honesty, I have to question the management of the organization at McLaren. Not having this rig and yet shelling out $40-50 million a year on Alonso shows a shocking lack of perspective. What good is an Alonso when the car isn't competitive? Alonso and Mclaren no longer make sense for each other. Mclaren would be far better off investing that $40-50 million into infrastructure and personnel to make their car more competitive.

Alonso has been spinning his wheels since leaving Ferrari without even a sniff at the podium these last 3 years. I'd like to see him have one last hurrah in a car that can actually win something but at this stage he's going to have to be willing to swallow his pride and make himself available for perhaps a bit less than he's worth in order to entice the top teams into signing him up. Oddly enough I can't help but think that an opportunity at Ferrari or Mercedes might still be an outside possibility but it would require a falling-out between the teams and either Vettel or Hamilton. They won't sign him to replace either Bottas or Raikkonen IMO.


It's tough because it makes sense to save that cash and buy the rig but they've got so much sponsorship and prize money to recoup that he is viewed as integral for. Plus if he left, the talent in the technical department can get itchy feet as it sends a sign they're no longer a top team if they don't have top drivers so it's always a compromise and they had access to a rig until this year so it wasn't an either/or scenario back then. (Honda have one)

But as I understand it he did take a significant pay cut for this new deal, with the rest being made up with Kimoa placement on the car,lids and overalls.

I think all doors are closed now barring fallouts, outside of Enstone and McLaren, yeah.

McLaren are the only ones who are still under the illusion that they are a top team. My father used to always say that in order to get to where you want to be, you must first fully understand where you ARE. I think the whole "top-team" act is wearing thin at this point. It's been almost 6 years since the last win...

By the way, a big part of the reason they have a deficit with regards to sponsorship is that they were too proud to sell the sponsorship for an appropriate market value; insisting instead that they be able to charge like it's 2008 and they are still one of the top 2 teams in F1. They left a lot of money on the table these last few years due to nothing but pride. I think they need to fully embrace their current situation and that means getting a title sponsor, moving on from Alonso and starting to re-build this broken organization.


Winning should be the only measure of what makes you a top team I'd agree but it really isn't in the eyes of the sponsors they are chasing. They have one of the best drivers and the exposure that brings, they have one of the best designers, they are the 2nd biggest in fan base and they happen to have 2 of the biggest publications in Autosport and Motorsport in their back pocket which they can plaster with McLaren cars to keep up the same exposure the 'big 3' have.

They did cost themselves some sponsors through that but we're talking about Ron there. Zak seems to better understand the current situation and how to draw in sponsors but a lot will depend on this years car.

There could be a lot of changes depending on how that goes and losing Alonso to Renault for example might actually work a bit in their favour longer term but there's a good reason Zak is pestering Brawn about budget caps. I think he perfectly understands McLaren can't financially compete with those big 3 so I don't think they're suffering from not knowing where they stand to be fair.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Fill your boots it's legit. Hope this is ok to share...


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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Fill your boots it's legit. Hope this is ok to share...


Legend :thumbup: any idea how long it lasts?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Fill your boots it's legit. Hope this is ok to share...


Legend :thumbup: any idea how long it lasts?


I didn't have prime and it's saying 3 months for me anyway.

Better than a kick in the you know whats.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Alonso doing Alonso things. 6th in the WDC with what is probably the 6th best car on average average over the first 3 races.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:14 pm 
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the car is up there with the Renault and the Haas pace-wise. I would say a bit quicker than them in race trim. I do agree that in qualifying it is miles away, which tends to be a problem.

Still, he is doing a great job with what he has. From what everyone is talking, venting engine elements was a problem in testing, being solved quite rudimentary. They preferred including the permanent solution to this in the Barca update. I guess they prefer this integration, or the parts don't make that much sense if not integrated into a design.

Ted was saying that the S Duct was actually venting the driver's feet at the moment :)) So definitely there is some work in progress.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:21 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
the car is up there with the Renault and the Haas pace-wise. I would say a bit quicker than them in race trim. I do agree that in qualifying it is miles away, which tends to be a problem.

Still, he is doing a great job with what he has. From what everyone is talking, venting engine elements was a problem in testing, being solved quite rudimentary. They preferred including the permanent solution to this in the Barca update. I guess they prefer this integration, or the parts don't make that much sense if not integrated into a design.

Ted was saying that the S Duct was actually venting the driver's feet at the moment :)) So definitely there is some work in progress.


What makes you say that? Haas was definitely quicker in the first two races and probably quicker in China as well. Renault definitely quicker in Australia and China and probably quicker in Bahrain. I think they've actually been 7th quickest in both Bahrain and China but 6th on average.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
the car is up there with the Renault and the Haas pace-wise. I would say a bit quicker than them in race trim. I do agree that in qualifying it is miles away, which tends to be a problem.

Still, he is doing a great job with what he has. From what everyone is talking, venting engine elements was a problem in testing, being solved quite rudimentary. They preferred including the permanent solution to this in the Barca update. I guess they prefer this integration, or the parts don't make that much sense if not integrated into a design.

Ted was saying that the S Duct was actually venting the driver's feet at the moment :)) So definitely there is some work in progress.


What makes you say that? Haas was definitely quicker in the first two races and probably quicker in China as well. Renault definitely quicker in Australia and China and probably quicker in Bahrain. I think they've actually been 7th quickest in both Bahrain and China but 6th on average.


Man, I also like Fernando. I know he can outdrive the car. But there are limits to this. On many occasions today he was lapping quicker than the Haas and the Renault. Sometimes with the Renault on quicker tires. While I am sure Mclaren is not ahead clearly on pace, I think they are generally there or thereabouts in races. Sometimes a bit slower sometimes a bit faster. The qualifying is what makes them look so bad.

But hopefully, they will steer clear of the midfield pack from Barcelona onwards.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:44 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
the car is up there with the Renault and the Haas pace-wise. I would say a bit quicker than them in race trim. I do agree that in qualifying it is miles away, which tends to be a problem.

Still, he is doing a great job with what he has. From what everyone is talking, venting engine elements was a problem in testing, being solved quite rudimentary. They preferred including the permanent solution to this in the Barca update. I guess they prefer this integration, or the parts don't make that much sense if not integrated into a design.

Ted was saying that the S Duct was actually venting the driver's feet at the moment :)) So definitely there is some work in progress.


What makes you say that? Haas was definitely quicker in the first two races and probably quicker in China as well. Renault definitely quicker in Australia and China and probably quicker in Bahrain. I think they've actually been 7th quickest in both Bahrain and China but 6th on average.


Man, I also like Fernando. I know he can outdrive the car. But there are limits to this. On many occasions today he was lapping quicker than the Haas and the Renault. Sometimes with the Renault on quicker tires. While I am sure Mclaren is not ahead clearly on pace, I think they are generally there or thereabouts in races. Sometimes a bit slower sometimes a bit faster. The qualifying is what makes them look so bad.

But hopefully, they will steer clear of the midfield pack from Barcelona onwards.


Without the safety car in Australia he wouldn't have beaten Hulk all season. For me that shows that the Renault is a quicker car.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:50 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso doing Alonso things. 6th in the WDC with what is probably the 6th best car on average average over the first 3 races.

It is a travesty for him to be in such a car but then again of his own making.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Freddie going to Haas for 2019!!!!! It's an official RUMOR people!!!! :D

Oh please, please, please be true!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Freddie going to Haas for 2019!!!!! It's an official RUMOR people!!!! :D

Oh please, please, please be true!!! :lol:


No chance. Diario Gol I assume?

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