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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:46 pm 
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As per the title.

I'm not really in a position to suggest a list for this particular topic, though I'm rewatching many seasons in recent times (fun stuff).


...Guessing this will be a difficult task.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Question: Are you using the F1TV app to re-watch seasons?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:00 pm 
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Only partially. I have to find what I can from where I can which is usually a mixture of F1TV, youtube and dailymotion. F1TV doesn't have a complete archive.


For example, F1TV Archive has 3 races only for each season from 1996-1998 and 5 for 1999.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:21 am 
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Oh man, difficult task! I don't think I have ever attempted that


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Not an easy task, but here goes:

BEST TO WORST
1995 - destroyed his opponents in a car that was clearly inferior
1996 - got those victories in a car that didn't deserve them
1998 - took the Driver's Championship to the last race with a car that was lapped in the first race
1994 - always miles ahead of his teammate (even if with help of a traction control system), carried the team basically alone to WCC contention
1997 - squeezed 100% out of every opportunity given to him and out of his opponents' mistakes
2002 - dominated whole year, didn't put a wheel wrong
2000 - very strong year but got involved in some incidents
2001 - similar to 2001, only with a better car and weaker opposition
1991 - extremely strong debut as a rookie
1993 - definitely stronger than 1992, bad luck robbed a couple of victories
1999 - a couple of weaker races and leg injury
2003 - a number of mistakes through the year, helped by mid-season tire change
2004 - a couple of unnecessary mistakes, same goes for the next two years
2005
2006
1992 - still a couple of "rookie" style errors
2012 - best of the comeback years, in my opinion MSC was getting more hang of it every year
2011 - much closer to Rosberg than previous year
2010 - seemed a bit rusty at times, wasn't really close to Rosberg

Feel free to comment :-P


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:40 pm 
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1. 1995-The Williams was clearly the better car and yet Michael not only won the title; he dominated the opposition. He won 9 of 16 races in the second best car that year. Okay, Damon Hill was an error machine that season and there was no more Senna, Prost or Mansell in F1; leaving a bit of a vacuum. None the less that was a phenomenal season.
2. 2002-Sure the car was dominant but Michel controlled a season more comprehensively than any driver ever. Finished on the podium in all 17 races and won 11 of them.
3. 1997-Michael put up a title fight in a car that was miles behind the Williams. This was the equivalent of someone taking the championship to the final round against Mercedes in 2014.
4. 1996-Set the tone for his time at Ferrari. What an impressive start. Maybe his best year in qualifying in his career and dragged that car to places it didn't belong.
5. 2000-First title with Ferrari and well earned. This was the first time we saw Michael deliver under pressure in a close title fight without taking someone out. Not a perfect year but very strong.
6. 1998-Another great season in a car that was clearly outmatched. Up there with any of Alonso's years circa 2011-2013.
7. 2004-Dominant and record setting season (though not error free).
8. 1994-Cheating scandal and final round tactics aside; Michael truly arrived in this season. After Senna's death, there was a vacuum left behind for who would be the sport's top driver. Michael filled that vacuum immediately and comprehensively. He did have the best car overall that year and there was a lot of controversy but he was also clearly better than his competition.
9. 1992-Outscored Senna in only his second year. This was when people started to see him as a future champion.

Those were his strongest years. I'll edit to add the weaker ones in later.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:46 pm 
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1997 - Nearly took the championship in a car that was probably 4th quickest over the season. Had no business challenging for the WDC. I'm ignoring Jerez.
1995 - Dominant with a dominant car.
2001 - Same as 1995. Made the car look dominant. And often underrated season IMO
1998 - Some great drives to hang on in there.
2002 - Consistent class. A podium at every race.
2000 - Well deserved championship against a peak Mika.
1996 - This feels like it should be higher. 3 wins in an evil handling car.
1994 - Dominant in most of the races he run.
1999 - The greatest ever number 2.
2006 - A good run but less memorable for me than the seasons rated higher.
2004 - A dominant run to the WDC. I think he was as dominant as the car if not more so. A few lack lustre races after the championship was sewn up.
1992 - Put himself on the map.
2005 - Bit of a meh year by his standards.
2003 - Slightly over his prime. Made some errors. The field seemed to catch him up a bit.
1993 - Good consolidation year. Maybe should've beaten Senna.
2012 - Equal to Rosberg.
2011 - Nearly as good as Rosberg.
2010 - Not as good as Rosberg.

Schumacher for me is the greatest not only for how good he was but for the length of time he was that good.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:47 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
1997 - Nearly took the championship in a car that was probably 4th quickest over the season. Had no business challenging for the WDC. I'm ignoring Jerez.
1995 - Dominant with a dominant car.
2001 - Same as 1995. Made the car look dominant. And often underrated season IMO
1998 - Some great drives to hang on in there.
2002 - Consistent class. A podium at every race.
2000 - Well deserved championship against a peak Mika.
1996 - This feels like it should be higher. 3 wins in an evil handling car.
1994 - Dominant in most of the races he run.
1999 - The greatest ever number 2.
2006 - A good run but less memorable for me than the seasons rated higher.
2004 - A dominant run to the WDC. I think he was as dominant as the car if not more so. A few lack lustre races after the championship was sewn up.
1992 - Put himself on the map.
2005 - Bit of a meh year by his standards.
2003 - Slightly over his prime. Made some errors. The field seemed to catch him up a bit.
1993 - Good consolidation year. Maybe should've beaten Senna.
2012 - Equal to Rosberg.
2011 - Nearly as good as Rosberg.
2010 - Not as good as Rosberg.

Schumacher for me is the greatest not only for how good he was but for the length of time he was that good.

Interesting perspective on the 2001 season, I'd always considered it similar to 2002 and 2004 in that he walked the title in a vastly superior car. 2002 and 2004 are hard to place as the car was so superior that he had no competition, a bit like trying to rate Hamilton in 2014/15 if Rosberg hadn't been there.

In general I'd agree though that his peak was from about 1994-2004, he was in a class of his own for that entire period. Some people try to belittle his achievements by highlighting how strong the Ferrari team was in the early 2000s but I would argue that Schumacher won the majority of his titles (i.e. 94, 95, 00, 03) without having the best car over the season. And that's not to mention the late 90s where competed for the championship in cars that had no business being anywhere near it. I've always considered Schumacher to be the greatest of all time not based on his career statistics, but because of what he achieved in inferior machinery for much of his career and because I believe he stood further ahead of his peers than any other driver in history.

96 was his best season for me. The Ferrari that year was poor yet he won three races with it, and the Spanish GP was his best win of his career in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Title of thread should be changed to Michael Schumacher as he is old news I honestly thought this was about his son Mick.


I never rated him much but he has got a excellent record and probably will never be beaten.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:13 pm 
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j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
1997 - Nearly took the championship in a car that was probably 4th quickest over the season. Had no business challenging for the WDC. I'm ignoring Jerez.
1995 - Dominant with a dominant car.
2001 - Same as 1995. Made the car look dominant. And often underrated season IMO
1998 - Some great drives to hang on in there.
2002 - Consistent class. A podium at every race.
2000 - Well deserved championship against a peak Mika.
1996 - This feels like it should be higher. 3 wins in an evil handling car.
1994 - Dominant in most of the races he run.
1999 - The greatest ever number 2.
2006 - A good run but less memorable for me than the seasons rated higher.
2004 - A dominant run to the WDC. I think he was as dominant as the car if not more so. A few lack lustre races after the championship was sewn up.
1992 - Put himself on the map.
2005 - Bit of a meh year by his standards.
2003 - Slightly over his prime. Made some errors. The field seemed to catch him up a bit.
1993 - Good consolidation year. Maybe should've beaten Senna.
2012 - Equal to Rosberg.
2011 - Nearly as good as Rosberg.
2010 - Not as good as Rosberg.

Schumacher for me is the greatest not only for how good he was but for the length of time he was that good.

Interesting perspective on the 2001 season, I'd always considered it similar to 2002 and 2004 in that he walked the title in a vastly superior car. 2002 and 2004 are hard to place as the car was so superior that he had no competition, a bit like trying to rate Hamilton in 2014/15 if Rosberg hadn't been there.

In general I'd agree though that his peak was from about 1994-2004, he was in a class of his own for that entire period. Some people try to belittle his achievements by highlighting how strong the Ferrari team was in the early 2000s but I would argue that Schumacher won the majority of his titles (i.e. 94, 95, 00, 03) without having the best car over the season. And that's not to mention the late 90s where competed for the championship in cars that had no business being anywhere near it. I've always considered Schumacher to be the greatest of all time not based on his career statistics, but because of what he achieved in inferior machinery for much of his career and because I believe he stood further ahead of his peers than any other driver in history.

96 was his best season for me. The Ferrari that year was poor yet he won three races with it, and the Spanish GP was his best win of his career in my opinion.


In 2001 the Mclaren was unreliable but accounting for the difference in Coulthard and Schumacher I would venture it was a fast enough car that had the drivers been swapped Schumacher would still have been challenging for the championship. It's too easy to write a great drivers success of as having been done in a dominant car. If you're by the far the best driver you will appear dominant even in equal machinery.

I think Schumacher's peak was 95-02. And it was a very high peak.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:36 pm 
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I could argue that Schumacher should of won the title in 98. If not for couthard in the McLaren at spa that year. That 10 point swing would of given Schumacher a probable 4 point advantage going into Suzuki instead of the 4 points I think it was.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:03 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
It's too easy to write a great drivers success of as having been done in a dominant car. If you're by the far the best driver you will appear dominant even in equal machinery.


Yeah, looking at the teammate's performance is probably more telling, I wouldn't say any other than 02 and 04 were truly dominant cars. I tend to think of a dominant car where there's some combination of both teammates are comfortably top two in the title race or that an average driver could comfortably deliver a title with a weak teammate, or where it'd be virtually impossible for anyone else to get a look in regardless of driver skill.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:59 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
I could argue that Schumacher should of won the title in 98. If not for couthard in the McLaren at spa that year. That 10 point swing would of given Schumacher a probable 4 point advantage going into Suzuki instead of the 4 points I think it was.
The same would have been true if Schumacher had been a bit more cautious in that incident. He was gesticulating that Coulthard didn't let him pass, and drove into him when he did. Going flat out when it is not necessary can be quite counterproductive.
His outburst after coming into the pits should have been grounds for a visit to the stewards.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I could argue that Schumacher should of won the title in 98. If not for couthard in the McLaren at spa that year. That 10 point swing would of given Schumacher a probable 4 point advantage going into Suzuki instead of the 4 points I think it was.
The same would have been true if Schumacher had been a bit more cautious in that incident. He was gesticulating that Coulthard didn't let him pass, and drove into him when he did. Going flat out when it is not necessary can be quite counterproductive.
His outburst after coming into the pits should have been grounds for a visit to the stewards.


This again Fiki? Are you still going to argue that slowing down on the fast side of the track (let's not use the racing line term as you don't like it) is the right thing to do? Even after DC admitted after years that he shouldn't have done that?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I could argue that Schumacher should of won the title in 98. If not for couthard in the McLaren at spa that year. That 10 point swing would of given Schumacher a probable 4 point advantage going into Suzuki instead of the 4 points I think it was.
The same would have been true if Schumacher had been a bit more cautious in that incident. He was gesticulating that Coulthard didn't let him pass, and drove into him when he did. Going flat out when it is not necessary can be quite counterproductive.
His outburst after coming into the pits should have been grounds for a visit to the stewards.


This again Fiki? Are you still going to argue that slowing down on the fast side of the track (let's not use the racing line term as you don't like it) is the right thing to do? Even after DC admitted after years that he shouldn't have done that?


Fiki would argue the sky was green if it could discredit Schumacher.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
I could argue that Schumacher should of won the title in 98. If not for couthard in the McLaren at spa that year. That 10 point swing would of given Schumacher a probable 4 point advantage going into Suzuki instead of the 4 points I think it was.
The same would have been true if Schumacher had been a bit more cautious in that incident. He was gesticulating that Coulthard didn't let him pass, and drove into him when he did. Going flat out when it is not necessary can be quite counterproductive.
His outburst after coming into the pits should have been grounds for a visit to the stewards.

I don't see how being more cautious would have helped, he would have just run into Coulthard at a slower speed. There was zero visibility in the spray and for DC to lift off while on the racing line, and expect Schumacher to know, was daft.


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